Roleigh Martin | 1 Nov 2009 02:14
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N.H. Bills Lost Hikers for Cost of Rescue

 

excerpt - thanks to Ed Rodriguez for pointer about this story (I found the link)

http://www.newstin.com/go-to-link/153765776/http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/10/29/national/main5451330.shtml

CONCORD, N.H., Oct. 29, 2009

N.H. Bills Lost Hikers for Cost of Rescue

Seven Other States Have Laws Allowing Such Charges, But Some Groups Say the Policy Is Dangerous


(AP)  Stranded with a sprained ankle on a snow-covered mountain, Eagle Scout Scott Mason put his survival skills to work by sleeping in the crevice of a boulder and jump-starting evergreen fires with hand sanitizer gel.

He put plastic bags inside his boots to keep his feet dry as he sloshed through mountain runoff hidden beneath waist-deep snow. After three cold days last April, rescue crews spotted him hiking toward the summit of Mount Washington, the Northeast's highest mountain.

Read Mason's survival story

New Hampshire officials praised his resourcefulness. So grateful was he for his rescuers that Mason, 17, sent $1,000 to the state.

Sometime later, New Hampshire sent him a bill: $25,734.65 for the cost of rescuing him.

New Hampshire is one of eight states with laws allowing billing for rescue costs, but only New Hampshire has made frequent attempts to do so — even strengthening its law last year to allow the suspension of hiking, fishing and driver's licenses of those who don't pay, according to an Associated Press review.

National search and rescue organizations insist just the possibility of being billed is dangerous policy. Hikers may delay calling for help while they think about the cost, and that could put them — and the mostly volunteer corps of rescuers — at greater risk.

Other states with laws allowing them to recoup costs rarely, if ever, enforce them, largely for that reason, the AP found.

"If it had happened in Colorado, he would have been applauded for being able to survive for three days," said Paul "Woody" Woodward, president of Colorado's Alpine Rescue Team. "New Hampshire is way out on their own on this one."

New Hampshire officials counter that being properly prepared — not the size of the scout's bill — should be the message about visiting wilderness areas. And, fish and game officials say, many of the state's trailheads are posted with signs warning hikers they may be billed for rescue costs if they aren't properly prepared.

Mason, now an 18-year-high school senior, from Halifax, Mass., has hired a lawyer to try to negotiate a settlement. Officials said he was found to be negligent because he veered off the marked path, was unprepared for melting snow that made a shortcut perilous and went up the mountain with an injured ankle, not down.

The bill included more than $24,000 for a helicopter and labor provided by state fish and game officers. Volunteers provided their time at no charge.

Three states besides New Hampshire — Hawaii, Oregon and Maine — have general laws allowing agencies to bill for rescues. Only Maine has attempted to recoup money a handful of times and the bills were never paid. California, Vermont, Colorado and Idaho have laws allowing state agencies to bill in limited circumstances, but the laws are rarely enforced — and when they are, draw a firestorm of protest from search and rescue groups.

Two years ago, the fire department in Golden, Colo., rescued a hiker from Kansas who had sprained his ankle and later billed him for $5,135. The outcry from national search and rescue groups influenced the city to change its policy and settle with the hiker for 10 percent of the bill.

Only New Hampshire has consistently billed people. Last year, lawmakers increased the likelihood of being billed when they lowered the legal standard from reckless to negligent to make it easier to collect.

Records obtained by The Associated Press from a Freedom of Information Act request found that New Hampshire spent $413,543 on 275 rescue missions over the past two years. The state issued 16 bills for rescues totaling $41,435 — with Mason's $25,000 bill the largest. The state spent far more, $59,426, on a December 2007 search that was not billed. In that case, the body of the 70-year-old hunter was found four months later. His family was not billed.

"We're not going out there with the intent to bill everyone," insists Fish and Game Maj. Timothy Acerno.

Policies vary across the country on penalizing people who ignore weather warnings, don't carry flashlights on long hikes, fail to leave itineraries, ski out of bounds or are otherwise unprepared or act irresponsibly.

If Mason had gotten lost in a National Park, his rescue would have been free, said David Barna, chief of public affairs for the National Park Service.

New Hampshire officials stress they only bill those who are negligent.

Acerno said that experienced search and rescue volunteers and fish and game staff consider what a reasonable person would have done and measure the person's actions against a hiker responsibility code that calls for knowing the terrain and conditions, taking proper gear, leaving an itinerary and turning back if conditions change. The attorney general's office makes the final determination.

Hannah Groom, a 21-year-old college student from Cumberland, Maine, learned the hard way.

[clip] --  goto link for rest of story

http://www.newstin.com/go-to-link/153765776/http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/10/29/national/main5451330.shtml
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James D. Marco | 1 Nov 2009 12:17
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Re: Re: decontaminating gear of poison ivy

 

Mike,
As Ed was saying, the bag was likely not quite dry.
I would suggest dropping it in your dryer with a few tennis balls.
Low heat is best for the fabric. Down itself can tolerate anything up
to "steam" heat....I used to revive my older fishing flies by holding
them (with a hemostat) in steam from boiling water. The heat will
not bother the down. The nylon, pertex, or whatever is a different
story, though. Drying it doesn't take a commercial dryer, your home
dryer (anything over 4 cuft) will do fine. However, every 10 minutes
it helps to reverse the footbox and hood. You can actually do this
a lot with no ill effects. I think WM recommends every trip.
Hmmm....
http://www.westernmountaineering.com/index.cfm?section=Product%20Tips%20and%20Care
I think they go a bit overboard, but they are the experts....
No. You are not damaging anything. Any bag after a long
period of "fluffing" as Ed recommends, or, running for a couple
hours in a dryer will generally fluff better...more loft, more insulation,
hence more warmth. As good as new, minimally. (Down is often
compressed for shipping.)
Of course, if it has too many body oils and other stuff on it, this
could also be the problem with matting. But after a washing, I don't
think this is your problem. I actually do my bags here at home (as
posted earlier this year,) with half the recommended Nikwax
detergent, but on full load. There was a longish thread here on
washing earlier in the year. Water does the washing, the detergent
only combines with the oils, allowing them to mix with water, and be
carried away. 2-3 rinses are usually needed. Lots of water means a
cleaner bag with no scents...well, just water, which animals *can*
smell, and the things the bags were made from.
I avoid washing mine more than once or twice per year. A
simple washing in warm water (not hot) does not hurt, but bags
can have a DWR coating. Again, some bonded in the fabric, some
is simply added on. Anyway, I have retreated it with spray-on
but dislike the idea of using aerosols. (Sometimes I am stuck, soo,
I do what I have too.) Soo, I have a can that I use and have used, for
about 5-6 years. I have been using Colemans Camp-Dry, but will
likely switch to Revivex in the future...when I run out.
http://www.mcnett.com/ReviveX-Air-Dry-Water-Repellent-P177.aspx
A !light! coating is what I use.... 2-3 seconds on the outside, only.
Zip the bag up first. Cinch the hood around some rolled newspaper
next. Lay it on the ground and smoothly spray the top, then turn it over
and spray the bottom. 1 coat. Then hang it to dry for a day, preferably
outside. Waterproof? No. But water resistant is what I am after. It will
stay dryer with than without this. Dryer means better loft. You want to
restore an existing coating, not create a new coating....
If you were still washing, you could also spray Revivex on just
before drying:
http://www.mcnett.com/ReviveX-Soft-Shell-Water-Repellent-P172.aspx
This requires heat to set it, though. Again, watch out for heat and shell
material. They say medium heat....I would not attempt it, myself.
Commercial medium heat is more like my home "high" setting. Good for
Revivex, bad for nylon (won't hurt down.) This is likely better, iff you can get
the heat adjusted properly...hot enough to set the Revivex, cool enough for
the nylon to survive. Overall, I would suggest avoiding the risk.
Either will work on a tent, too. Again, if it is nylon or any UL synthetic,
use caution with the heat setting.
Another technique is to paint on clear silicone sealant on a tent.
Dilute it with mineral spirits, about 15-20parts mineral spirits to 1 part
GE Clear Pure Silicone calk. (Both gotten from a hardware store.) Mix
for about 3 minutes. You want to restore a potential leaking tent, not
waterproof it. Do the bottom and wait about 15 minutes. Set up the tent,
and do the inside and outside. Let it dry overnight for a day or two. You
might notice a slight change of color. Quite the messy job, generally.
You will only add an ounce or so to the whole tent.
BTW: a 50/50 mix will do a good job of removing any slipperiness
from a tent floor, per this list!
Anyway, Good job! I agree with Ed, it sounds like the bag
needs more drying. Down takes a LOT of drying....more than what
you would expect. It should all fluff...like new.
My thoughts only . . .
jdm
At 09:14 AM 10/31/2009, you wrote:
>I spent the evening last night in the laundramat. ~$20 later the tents and bags are clean. Actually, my son got it on his gear, and since he is highly allergic to it, I didn't want to take any chances and thought it best to decontaminate everything. When you are traveling in a group of 60-100 boy scouts, there is some inevitable sharing of equipment, shared sleeping arrangements, etc. We teach them all what to look for with ivy, oak and sumak, but at some point in time they will likely stop to retie their shoes, not pay attention and lay their pack down on a leaf of it to go to the bathroom, or something to that effect. I repeatedly tell them, just because you don't get it, don't assume the guy you are sharing a tent with tonight doesn't get it. I suspect my son got exposed to it in a second hand manner such as this. Today I plan to wash the packs in the bathtub, and will do the thermorests as well. I got the nikwax tech wash and down wash at my local outfitter. I !
p!
> ut some tennis balls in with the down bag, but there is still some bunching of down. Any suggestions on how to plump it back up again? Nikwax also makes a substance you can reapply to a tent I believe, to restore water repellency if you lose it. This is the first time any of these pieces have been thoroughly washed in this manner, so hopefully I have not damaged anything. I used the delicate cycle and was as carefull as possible. This stuff is too expensive to damage through carelessness. On a related note, I ordered some oral ivy. I expect it to arrive within a few days. I'm a little nervous about using it, and will likely try it on myself before I let my son try it. We have spent 2 days in allergists offices and dermatologists offices this week, only to have them tell us th ere is no silver bullet for ivy. We knew that. They put him on an oral dose of prednisone and a topical ointment of 0.1% and it is clearing up, slowly.
>
>Mike
>
>--- In BackpackingLight <at> yahoogroups.com, "Ed" <ed.morse <at> ...> wrote:
>>
>>
>> ike,
>> I have a few thoughts in addition to what others have suggested. I am very sensitive to the stuff so I've had many years of experience.
>>
>> First, do you know what poison ivy looks like? Can you recognize the plant in all stages? I don't understand how you could get it on all your gear... Do you really know all your gear is contaminated?
>>
>> Second, I don't use anything other than shoes and long pants for protection. If I just walk through it I make sure to I carry a can of hand cleaner in my Jeep. If I get my hands in the stuff I use the hand cleaner to thoroughly get clean. It is necessary to use it within avery few hours of exposure. If I were to backpack where I thought exposure likely I would carry a small tube with me. About any kind of mechanics hand cleaner will work. I prefer the Goop brand. I haven't had the rash since I started this practice.
>>
>> Ed Morse
>>
>>
>> --- In BackpackingLight <at> yahoogroups.com, "tad800" <m.vollmer <at> > wrote:
>> >
>> > I just returned from a backpacking trip with our boy scout troop. My son got poison ivy in a few places, as well as I have. My question is associated with how do I best decontaminate all our gear (tents, sleeping bags, jet boil parts, backpacks) essentially everything, of the oil? I am going out again in 2 weeks, and I know I must have it on my equipment, but some of these items are not easily decontaminated, such as a down sleeping bag, and backpack. I have used teh commercially available Ivy block items, but I'm at a loss on how to do the big stuff like the down bag, and pack. I welcome all advice on this, as I don't want to have another flare up after the next trip.
>> >
>> > Sincerely
>> > Mike
>> >
>>
>
>
>
>
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James Marco
Computer Operations Manager, Desktop Support
Biomedical Engineering and
Chemical and Biomolecular Engineering
Cornell University
B78A Olin Hall,
Ithaca, NY 14853
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Anthea Michaelis | 1 Nov 2009 13:35

decontaminating gear of poison ivy

 

I wash my packs in the shower.  I find it much better then the bath.

--
'Frank Devine, about grandparenting  “It doesn’t take long to realise that grandchildren represent our final lifetime allocation of opportunity to bestow tenderness and true love”.'

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Roleigh Martin | 2 Nov 2009 18:13
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Aquapac Waterproof Backpack

 

For those who walk to work or who do city park training hikes, this might not be a bad pack.

 
 

Sent to you by Roleigh Martin via Google Reader:

 
 

via GearJunkie.com - Outdoor Gear Reviews by Ryan Dionne on 11/2/09

The Aquapac waterproof backpack has the right amount of features to be used as a commuter pack and an adventurers waterproof bag.


 
 

Things you can do from here:

 
 
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mkt | 2 Nov 2009 23:28
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Black Diamond FlickLock trekking poles

 

I took advantage of REI's 20% off coupon to get a pair of Black Diamond trekking poles, the Trail model. The flicklocks unlock quite easily, but seem to take a lot of pressure to lock. The instructions mention that there's a screw whose tension one can adjust, I might try that although the instructions warn that if the screw is too loose, then the sections might slip instead of being locked into position.

One other thing that I'm considering: for each measured length (e.g. 120 mm), one adjusts both the lower section and the middle section, so they are both set at 120mm.

But, to reduce the amount of adjusting that I have to do, what if I simply set the lower section at its maximum (which is 140mm) and left it there? And, whenever I wanted to lengthen or shorten the poles, simply adjusted the middle section.

That's the default technique with my Lekis; the lower section is extended to its max length and then one only has to adjust one section, the middle one.

The instructions don't address this issue. I guess they presume that one will always adjust both sections not just one, but is there any disadvantage to adjusting just one section?

--MKT

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Jerry Goller | 2 Nov 2009 23:35
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RE: Black Diamond FlickLock trekking poles

 

Not in my experience. I do much the same thing but I fully extent the middle
section and adjust the lower one. That means the largest (strongest) section
is the one that is fully extended.

Jerry

http://www.BackpackGearTest.org : the most comprehensive interactive gear
reviews and tests on the planet.

-----Original Message-----
From: BackpackingLight <at> yahoogroups.com
[mailto:BackpackingLight <at> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mkt
Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 3:29 PM
To: BackpackingLight <at> yahoogroups.com
Subject: [BackpackingLight] Black Diamond FlickLock trekking poles

I took advantage of REI's 20% off coupon to get a pair of Black Diamond
trekking poles, the Trail model. The flicklocks unlock quite easily, but
seem to take a lot of pressure to lock. The instructions mention that
there's a screw whose tension one can adjust, I might try that although the
instructions warn that if the screw is too loose, then the sections might
slip instead of being locked into position.

One other thing that I'm considering: for each measured length (e.g. 120
mm), one adjusts both the lower section and the middle section, so they are
both set at 120mm.

But, to reduce the amount of adjusting that I have to do, what if I simply
set the lower section at its maximum (which is 140mm) and left it there?
And, whenever I wanted to lengthen or shorten the poles, simply adjusted the
middle section.

That's the default technique with my Lekis; the lower section is extended to
its max length and then one only has to adjust one section, the middle one.

The instructions don't address this issue. I guess they presume that one
will always adjust both sections not just one, but is there any disadvantage
to adjusting just one section?

--MKT

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Cara Lin Bridgman | 2 Nov 2009 23:56
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Re: Black Diamond FlickLock trekking poles

 

That's what I do and with the same logic.

CL

Jerry Goller wrote:
> Not in my experience. I do much the same thing but I fully extent the middle
> section and adjust the lower one. That means the largest (strongest) section
> is the one that is fully extended.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BackpackingLight <at> yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:BackpackingLight <at> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mkt
>
> But, to reduce the amount of adjusting that I have to do, what if I simply
> set the lower section at its maximum (which is 140mm) and left it there?
> And, whenever I wanted to lengthen or shorten the poles, simply adjusted the
> middle section.
>
> That's the default technique with my Lekis; the lower section is extended to
> its max length and then one only has to adjust one section, the middle one.
>
> The instructions don't address this issue. I guess they presume that one
> will always adjust both sections not just one, but is there any disadvantage
> to adjusting just one section?

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Elizabeth Young | 3 Nov 2009 01:40

trekking pole lengths?

 

Currently I am borrowing a pair of Black Diamond poles with flick locks.
I am considering some BPL Light Stix (fixed length poles) because they
are very light and I am not sure I actually need adjustable poles.
In reading some reviews and comments on these poles, I realized that
when I don't bother to adjust my poles for length during a hike I keep
them set at an apparently quite short 105cm. That height eliminates any
shoulder fatigue from repeatedly lifting the poles higher than my arm
swing normally goes and works fine up hill, perfectly on the flat, and
is acceptable downhill.
Now that the time is coming to actually order some poles, I'm getting
all nervous about only having one length available to me (so maybe these
are not the best choice for me).

Anyway!

I thought I'd ask the list members about their trekking pole use:
Do you use fixed length poles? Adjustable?
What's the most common length you use?
When do you adjust your poles on the trail: uphill, downhill, flat?
Your height (if you are comfortable sharing that).
What do your poles weigh?

I'll start
I use adjustable poles set at 105cm. I used to set them longer for long
downhill sections, but once I no longer trusted my twist-lock poles to
stay locked in place I stopped adjusting the poles and have hiked easily
with 105cm poles. My borrowed poles are 20 ounces.
I used to use (and still have) a single hunk of wood that is quite a bit
longer than 105cm. It weighs 19 ounces.
I'm 5' 11" (180cm) tall.

thanks,
liz young

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Roleigh Martin | 3 Nov 2009 05:40
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How to Clean Your Waterproof, Breathable Jacket

 

Link for those who need it. Very interesting.

http://www.geartalkwithjasonklass.com/2009/11/how-to-wash-your-waterproof-breathable.html

 
 

Sent to you by Roleigh Martin via Google Reader:

 
 

via Gear Talk with Jason Klass by Jason Klass on 11/2/09

I'm sure some of you are getting sick of videos from my Gore-Tex experience, so I'll back off for a while (even though I have a lot more cool footage to share). So for now, I'll just post this one about how to restore the DWR coating on your jacket. This applies to any garment with a DWR. It's pretty simple but I think you'll find it useful.


 
 

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James D. Marco | 3 Nov 2009 09:47
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Re: Black Diamond FlickLock trekking poles

 

When I was using adjustable poles, that is what I did, also.
jdm
At 05:56 PM 11/2/2009, you wrote:
>That's what I do and with the same logic.
>
>CL
>
>Jerry Goller wrote:
>> Not in my experience. I do much the same thing but I fully extent the middle
>> section and adjust the lower one. That means the largest (strongest) section
>> is the one that is fully extended.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: BackpackingLight <at> yahoogroups.com
>> [mailto:BackpackingLight <at> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mkt
>>
>> But, to reduce the amount of adjusting that I have to do, what if I simply
>> set the lower section at its maximum (which is 140mm) and left it there?
>> And, whenever I wanted to lengthen or shorten the poles, simply adjusted the
>> middle section.
>>
>> That's the default technique with my Lekis; the lower section is extended to
>> its max length and then one only has to adjust one section, the middle one.
>>
>> The instructions don't address this issue. I guess they presume that one
>> will always adjust both sections not just one, but is there any disadvantage
>> to adjusting just one section?
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>
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James Marco
Computer Operations Manager, Desktop Support
Biomedical Engineering and
Chemical and Biomolecular Engineering
Cornell University
B78A Olin Hall,
Ithaca, NY 14853
Office: 255-7312

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