Putting your duct tape around a water bottle or trekking pole has always seemed a bit
suspect. Sure it's tough stuff but both storage methods expose it to the elements. I have
always preferred to wrap it on itself. I stick the first 2-3 inches on itself (sticky sides
together) then fold the rest of the length I'm carrying around it. It's very compact and has
always been usable even after years of storage.

Enjoy,
John Karpinski

> I wrap mine around the top of one or both trekking poles.
>
> You do need to replace it periodically, though. I had to use some
> non-sticky duct tape on a repair last summer. Needless to say, the
> repair didn't stick. ;)
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In BackpackingLight <at> yahoogroups.com, "bsostrin" <bsostrin <at> > wrote:
> >
> > Storage of on trail duct tape: wrap some tape around a water bottle.
> >
> > > Roleigh Martin <marti124 <at> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Once on the High Sierra Trail, I saw an Engineer repair his boot
> with
> > > duct
> > > > tape and bungee cord, it was amazing he had that stuff with him.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

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Tim,

You might want to try the Chattanooga Hiking club:

http://hiking.chattanooga.net/

Email on of the officers listed down at the bottom of the page. They
have several hikes in the local area, so I'm sure they may have links.
I'm also in Chattanooga, but mainly go backpacking.

Bill K.

On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 19:38:11 -0000, you wrote:

>Ok, I am running into a problem. I like day hikes that I can take
>with my kids and still make it home for dinner. My wife likes that
>too 'cause it gets everybody out of the house. She comes along
>sometimes too, but usually it's just me and the kids.
>
>Anyway, I digress. I can't find any decent maps of the trails around
>here. I have a sort of piecemeal map of the Cumberland trail, and I
>have found some, again, kind of skimpy piecemeal maps of Signal
>Mountain, but I want a real map. Something I can use with my compass
>and GPS (maybe) and that when I print it, it actually looks like a
>map and has the trails marked and everything.
>
>I don't mind paying for them, but frankly I can't find anything out
>there. Does anyone know of some kind of repository for actual maps?
>Not just some one's download from their GPS or hand drawn thing, but
>actual maps? Please, I want to go other places than those I have
>already been.
>
>Thanks,
>Tim Utley
>Chattanooga, TN
Bill K.

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Ok, I have all the permanent stuff I need: Pack, bag, tent, footprint,
fly, etc. Now I need to figure out how to pack all this, along with the
disposables (food, drink, etc.) Any suggestions? I figure you guys
probably have some advice for a newby to this, right? Things you have
found out in your own travels. Anyone want to share?

Thanks,
Tim Utley
Chattanooga, TN

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Top loader? Front loader?
Outside pockets?

Put the stuff you are most likely to need most (soonest, fastest, urgentest
in the most accesable spots.

There is considerable discussion about where the heavey things should go.

Load your pack with your stuff and go for a walk.
reload and try again

repeat as needed. :]

Ralph

On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 10:47 AM, Tim <kingtutley <at> yahoo.com> wrote:

> Ok, I have all the permanent stuff I need: Pack, bag, tent, footprint,
> fly, etc. Now I need to figure out how to pack all this, along with the
> disposables (food, drink, etc.) Any suggestions? I figure you guys
> probably have some advice for a newby to this, right? Things you have
> found out in your own travels. Anyone want to share?
>
> Thanks,
> Tim Utley
> Chattanooga, TN
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
>
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> To unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
> BackpackingLight-unsubscribe <at> yahoogroups.com
>
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>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Tim, I think it's useful to have direct fast access to things like map
and compass, hat, raingear, warm jacket and snacks. Some of the
smaller items may even be able to go in your pockets.

The very last thing you will need when you set up camp before
nightfall is your sleeping system so lots of us put that at the very
bottom of our packs. That way it's protected from wet in bad weather
until after your shelter is up.

One thing that's useful if you feel like listing it is to provide the
group with a complete list of what you plan to take; the
famous "equipment list". This usually generates a lot of comments and
suggestions for next time about your gear choices.
Best, Don L.

"Tim" <kingtutley <at> ...> wrote:
>
> Ok, I have all the permanent stuff I need: Pack, bag, tent,
footprint,
> fly, etc. Now I need to figure out how to pack all this, along with
the
> disposables (food, drink, etc.) Any suggestions? I figure you guys
> probably have some advice for a newby to this, right? Things you have
> found out in your own travels. Anyone want to share?
>
> Thanks,
> Tim Utley
> Chattanooga, TN
>

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I think how good your footing will be might dictate somewhat how you portion
out weight. If footing is going to be poor and I need all the balance I can
get I prefer the heavier stuff lower. Good trails and no mud/ice/snow then
the conventional pack positions for weight are fine unless you find you
prefer heavier things lower all the time. I sort of like a lower center of
gravity lots of days but always keeping weight as close to my spine as
possible. Really heavy stuff ( I know this is lightweight backpacking ) I
need lower every time to get it to ride best.

Pat C.

On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 6:20 PM, Don Ladigin <dladigin <at> yahoo.com> wrote:

> Tim, I think it's useful to have direct fast access to things like map
> and compass, hat, raingear, warm jacket and snacks. Some of the
> smaller items may even be able to go in your pockets.
>
> The very last thing you will need when you set up camp before
> nightfall is your sleeping system so lots of us put that at the very
> bottom of our packs. That way it's protected from wet in bad weather
> until after your shelter is up.
>
> One thing that's useful if you feel like listing it is to provide the
> group with a complete list of what you plan to take; the
> famous "equipment list". This usually generates a lot of comments and
> suggestions for next time about your gear choices.
> Best, Don L.
>
>
> "
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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  New Members

very interesting; this is a new RSS feed I subscribed too starting
today via google reader.

Sent to you by Roleigh Martin via Google Reader: DEET Dissolves
Breathable Fabrics: Experimental Results via sectionhiker.com by
Earlylite on 2/20/09
I’m a skeptic by nature and have always questioned authority, standard
operating procedures, gut feel, the status quo, and institutional
knowledge. In work and at play, I often put these truths to the test by
doing experiments or establishing quantifiable metrics that invariably
show that long held beliefs are grossly incorrect.


I’d always heard that DEET dissolves breathable fabrics, such as
Gore-Tex, and that you should keep the two from coming into contact
with one other. I’ve never had this problem outdoors when I’ve used
DEET, but I couldn’t pass up the opportunity to test whether it is true
or a myth in a more controlled setting on a pair of breathable rain
pants.

This winter, I managed to shred a pair of Mountain Hardware Cohesion
Pants, slashing dozens of rips in the legs with sharp front points,
while learning to use crampons. Mountain Hardware Cohesion Pants are
made with Conduit DT, a proprietary Gore-Tex knockoff that has three
layers: an outer shell layer made from Epic nylon, a middle breathable
layer made from Conduit DT, and an inner Epic stretch liner. I tried to
extend the life of these pants with duct tape (see above), but finally
donated their remains to science, enabling this experiment.

The Experiment

I applied three squirts of Ben’s 100% DEET and Ben’s 30% DEET to the
Epic nylon fabric on the outside of the Cohesion pants. After 3 days,
the 100% DEET solution (right in photo) was still quite wet, while the
30% DEET Solution (left in photo) had mostly dried. There was little
evidence of any external damage to the pants leg.


Turning the pant leg inside out however, showed another result
entirely. The 30% DEET solution had soaked through the outer shell
layer and melted the middle Conduit DT layer and the inner liner.
However, the damage was highly localized. [Does the photo below remind
you of the Andromeda Strain?]


The damage under the 100% DEET application was much more significant,
and large patches of the Conduit DT layer and the inner liner were
melted away. As it turns out, this process is ongoing and the fabric
continues to dissolve, unabated.


Conclusions

The experimental evidence is quite clear and shows that DEET does
dissolve breathable laminates. It’s true! However, the strength of the
DEET solution that the laminate comes in contact with is a determining
factor in the amount of damage that will occur. Therefore, hikers who
are concerned about the impact of DEET to clothing made using
breathable laminates are advised to dilute the point of contact with
water to minimize potential damage.



Related posts:
- Mountain Hardware Cohesion Pants It was Thanksgiving day and the
weather was a...
- Marmot Precip Full Zip Pants Marmot makes two styles of Precip pants:
Full Zip...
- My Long Trail Black Fly Defense Strategy Black flies are prevalent on
the Long Trail in Vermont...
- Treating your Clothes with Permethrin Permethrin is a contact
pesticide that kills black flies,...
- Wicking Underwear Last year, I switched to wearing long pants for...

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Back in the days of 30# base weights and 5# hiking boots, one of my
boot's heels came loose on the second day of a 7 day hike. We were
just coming by a horse camp (on the PCT) and after a short search I
found some bailing wire. Wrapped the wire under the heel, between
lugs, and fastened it up over the eyelets. Proceeded for the next 5
days without further problems or flopping of the heel.
The Cobbler sewed it back together and I used those boots for several
more years until my feet spred by a couple sizes.

Now days I use only trail runners and an 11# base weight for the same
hike.
I wrap about 3 feet of duct around both hiking poles for use on
blisters, cuts, shoes, or whatever. I've not had to repair a pair of
trail runners ..... yet. (knock on my head) ;)

`til later
jon

•  8
  New Members

Hi Tim,
First, and this is just my opinion, if you have so much stuff that
you are concerned about where it goes in your pack, then you have too
much stuff. OK, maybe for a winter trip where your family is insisting
you bring that huge wool sweater Aunt Mildred knitted for your last
birthday, but I say draw a line in the sand and don't cross it until
you've tried it out.
Each of us has our own comfort level, wilderness skill set,
experience, etc., so we must make sure we know how to be safe and
healthy with whatever gear we choose to bring on a particular trip.
Still, it seems from your cursory description of the "permanent stuff"
you might benefit from perhaps posting your gear list and having the
good folks here at the BackpackingLight Yahoo group help you out with
their experience and knowledge to lighten your load. (You'll find they
really are great for stuff like that). There are other good resources on
the web, at the bookstore, and in you local outfitters to help guide you
further.
Of course, there is the other school of learning that most of us
here went through. I believe it is call, "Try-See" where you pretty much
just Try something out and See how it goes. As long as you remember to
be aware of what's happening to and around you and then adjust
accordingly you should be fine.
Also, you'll learn a tremendous amount by getting some real-world
feedback from interacting with the environment. It does not lie. If you
don't use proper footwear, you'll be told so through blisters. If you
don't bring enough food, you may get the hunger memo sent your way. On
the other hand, if you wear overly-built and heavy shoes, pain will
travel with you. Same for packing too much food.
It took me quite a long time, a few bouts of slight hunger pangs, a
few shivering nights, and a bunch of "duds" coming out of my sewing
machine to get my general three-season packweight down to under the five
pound mark. But, believe me, it was totally worth it.
Experience is the mother of knowledge.
Peace,
Eric
PS. WHATEVER you do, just get out there and enjoy your world!

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Tim,
Generally, there are too many variables and ways to pack
things to give you any one methode. It wouldn't work for me. It
might work for Ralph. It works for Don. And so on...
I have a fairly wide chest/shoulder area. Generally, I used
to like things packed(weight) fairly high. Till I cracked a vertibra
and blew out a couple disks, this is what I did. After I got hurt, I
found that my shoulder strength was much reduced (about 40%
or so) and I was forced to pack lower and rely on the hip-belt.
This is OK, too. After about 15 years, I could again pack higher,
but, by then I had gotten used to it low... Both ways have their
advantages. I do not worry about too much weight between 15
and 45 pounds.
Soo, depending on the terrain, my intended activity and
how long I will be out, my load varies. Ready food is placed in
waste pouches along with the camera. Water is prepared every
evening/morning and put in side pockets along with the stove,
fuel, ditty bag(misc stuff) and fishing gear. Packing will vary a
bit, depending on weight and type of pack.
Assuming some sort of top loader, on a generally level trail:
1) sleeping bag (in a compression bag to fit the pack. The bag
doubles as my bear bag.)
2) food, cook gear, tent (usually the tent slips into the pot)
3) night cloths (in bear country, you need to change your
cloths before bedding down.) In winter this is extra long
johns, coat, leggings, socks...if I am not wearing them. Extra
stuff at night is stuffed into a shirt for a pillow.
4) saw, tent poles, fishing rod are slipped in last alongside
the tent/sleeping bag/cloths and capped by my cup. Tarp/rain
parka is stuffed over all this.
5) If you are using a panel loader, try putting your tarp in first, then
adding gear. Fold the tarp around the gear. Poles, etc get put in
last, just before zipping up.

My sleeping pad is part of the back pack frame (Gossamer
Gear Miniposa) soo, I didn't mention it. My whole kit for 2 nights
out is about 17# after loading everything. A smallish compass,
and mini-light, are attached to my shoulder harness with rubber
bands. The map is last in my pack. Usually, I look it over a couple
times and memorize the days travel, if I can...it gets stuffed in the
most convenient spot...always last (last in, first out.)
There are a number of ways to vary this. If I am climbing and
descending a lot, I will put the tent at the bottom. It's heavier. I will
also put the food down there. Again, weight. For descending, I will
do the opposite. Packing as high as possible. Generally, the goal
is keeping your spine as close to normal as possible. Bending going
up means packing low to relieve the weight on your back. Packing
high on the way down means a more normal walk while headed
down.
I have several packs, each requires different packing
techniques and modifications to the theme. After 20-30 trips with
your pack, you will know where things are. You should be able to
find anything in the dark, by feel. My partner generally carries very
little. Clothes, sleeping gear & pad. Of she says she wants to split
the load, I will give her 5# of food, reserving the breakfast stuff.
Iff you are going with kids, let them carry some weight, about
5-10% of their body weight. Don't expect them to carry 20%...that will
slow them down! Give them a couple whistles, and teach them
SOS. Tell them to repeat it for about a minute. Then turn them loose
on the trail.... ON THE TRAIL....or at least within sight of it. Of course,
you will become the pack animal....oh yeah, take extra bandages and
alcohol (unless you are taking an alcohol based stove...)
Anyway, experiment. Try it and see as someone wrote. The above
is what I do...works for me.
My thoughts only . . .
jdm
At 12:47 PM 3/1/2009, you wrote:
>Ok, I have all the permanent stuff I need: Pack, bag, tent, footprint,
>fly, etc. Now I need to figure out how to pack all this, along with the
>disposables (food, drink, etc.) Any suggestions? I figure you guys
>probably have some advice for a newby to this, right? Things you have
>found out in your own travels. Anyone want to share?
>
>Thanks,
>Tim Utley
>Chattanooga, TN

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