I just finished a wilderness first aid class offered by WMI a couple
months ago. I remember when the topic came up, both instuctors said that
these kits are of about zero value. I later found this link on their
website:

http://www.nols.edu/wmi/curriculum_updates/archive/041105_sawyer.shtml

What's the general feeling of this group? What would you do?

Thanks,
festus

--
It is not unusual for those at the wrong end of the club to have a
clearer picture of reality than those who wield it.
Noam Chomsky

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Venom extractors are of no value.
I concur.
Thomas Murphy, M.D.

--- "John J. Foster"
<BackpackingLight <at> festus.festusandsimone.org> wrote:

> I just finished a wilderness first aid class offered
> by WMI a couple
> months ago. I remember when the topic came up, both
> instuctors said that
> these kits are of about zero value. I later found
> this link on their
> website:
>
>
http://www.nols.edu/wmi/curriculum_updates/archive/041105_sawyer.shtml
>
> What's the general feeling of this group? What would
> you do?
>
> Thanks,
> festus
>
> --
> It is not unusual for those at the wrong end of the
> club to have a
> clearer picture of reality than those who wield it.
>
> Noam Chomsky
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>

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--- In BackpackingLight <at> yahoogroups.com, "John J. Foster"
<BackpackingLight <at> ...> wrote:
>
> I just finished a wilderness first aid class offered by WMI a
couple
> months ago. I remember when the topic came up, both instuctors
said that
> these kits are of about zero value. I later found this link on
their
> website:
>
>
http://www.nols.edu/wmi/curriculum_updates/archive/041105_sawyer.shtm
l
>
> What's the general feeling of this group? What would you do?
>
> Thanks,
> festus
>
> --
> It is not unusual for those at the wrong end of the club to have a
> clearer picture of reality than those who wield it.
> Noam Chomsky
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

I've asked this question a number of times, particularly with
reference to a solo hiker, where advice like "immobilize"
and "evacuate by carrying" are not practical.

I don't ever recall getting a satisfactory answer, which is why I
still carried the extracter in my pack.

Personally, if hiking solo, I think I would simply clean the wound,
try to remain calm and seek help ASAP. But I don't know if that is
the best course of action.

Is taking an anti-inflamatory medication like Motrin a good idea?

bob

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On 5/31/07, rbird66 <rwbird <at> earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> I'm pretty sure I have to Sawyer Extracter too. I bought it at
> Sports Authority well over a year ago. It is in a yellow plastic
> tube shaped container if that helps to identify it.

My understanding is that current first aid theory of snake bites discourages
venom extractors.

Am I misinformed?

Ralph

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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That would be correct that they are being discouraged. Keep the wound at or
below the level of the heart, minimize movement as much as possible
(especially in the affected limb), keep as calm as possible, and rapid
definitive treatment.
TJ Smith (Resident Firefighter/Paramedic)

_____

From: BackpackingLight <at> yahoogroups.com
[mailto:BackpackingLight <at> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ralph Oborn
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 9:06 PM
To: BackpackingLight <at> yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [BackpackingLight] Re: Is this just a coincidence?

On 5/31/07, rbird66 <rwbird <at> earthlink. <mailto:rwbird%40earthlink.net> net>
wrote:
>
> I'm pretty sure I have to Sawyer Extracter too. I bought it at
> Sports Authority well over a year ago. It is in a yellow plastic
> tube shaped container if that helps to identify it.

My understanding is that current first aid theory of snake bites discourages
venom extractors.

Am I misinformed?

Ralph

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Discouraged for snakebites. What about the other uses? Tick bites, deer flies?

Also, what are the recommendations for solo hikers, short of lying still and calling Fire and Rescue on a cell phone?

"Hello, 911? I've been bitten by a timber rattler. Listen closely for my GPS coordinates!"

Tim D. Williamson
Artist, Gardener, Astronomer, Soothsayer, Outdoorsman
Handyman, Chef & Purveyor of Obscure Trivia
timdwilliamson |at| yahoo |dot| com

----- Original Message ----
From: Anthony Smith <asmith <at> iaffl4131.org>
To: BackpackingLight <at> yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 9:23:51 PM
Subject: RE: [BackpackingLight] Re: Is this just a coincidence?

That would be correct that they are being discouraged. Keep the wound at or
below the level of the heart, minimize movement as much as possible
(especially in the affected limb), keep as calm as possible, and rapid
definitive treatment.
TJ Smith (Resident Firefighter/ Paramedic)

_____

From: BackpackingLight <at> yahoogroups. com
[mailto:BackpackingLight <at> yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Ralph Oborn
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 9:06 PM
To: BackpackingLight <at> yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [BackpackingLight] Re: Is this just a coincidence?

On 5/31/07, rbird66 <rwbird <at> earthlink. <mailto:rwbird% 40earthlink. net> net>
wrote:
>
> I'm pretty sure I have to Sawyer Extracter too. I bought it at
> Sports Authority well over a year ago. It is in a yellow plastic
> tube shaped container if that helps to identify it.

My understanding is that current first aid theory of snake bites discourages
venom extractors.

Am I misinformed?

Ralph

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

__________________________________________________________
Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545469

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On 5/31/07, Anthony Smith <asmith <at> iaffl4131.org> wrote:
>
> That would be correct that they are being discouraged. Keep the wound at
> or
> below the level of the heart, minimize movement as much as possible
> (especially in the affected limb), keep as calm as possible, and rapid
> definitive treatment.
> TJ Smith (Resident Firefighter/Paramedic)

Good to hear, I've been teaching my scouts that the most dangerous thing
about a snake bite is the mad dash to the hospital down a windy mountain
road. :]

Ralph

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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I have used a Katadyn Hiker Pro with great success. It is easy to
pump and quick. It comes with two bags to separate the in and out
tubes. The Hiker Pro is not that much different from it's cheaper
little brother the Hiker. Really I think it is only the pre-filter
inside the canister that is different. It filters really fast and you
can clean the pre-filter in the field.

--- In BackpackingLight <at> yahoogroups.com, "Dan Barry" <djbarryiii <at> ...>
wrote:
>
> I hate pump filters based on a week-long outing with the scouts a
> few years ago..8 total in our patrol...during which we used two PUR
> filters. After 2 days the handle broke on one pump and we couldn't
> repair or jury rig it. The filter cartridges for the remaining pump
> plugged up after another couple of days, despite prefiltering with
> bandanas and pitiful attempts at backflushing in the field.
>
> The designated filter person generally had to sit next to the
> water..eg down in the mosquito breeding zone next to a muddy creek
> with clouds of the those biting furies swarming around him....for 30
> to 60 minutes at a time to crank out enough fluid for us for 1/2 a
> day, then he (usually me) would have to do it again at day's end.
> To top it off, when we got home three of the kids had
> giardia....probably resulting from cross-contamination of the
> outflow tubing from the intake tubing during storage in (wet)
> plastic bags. (Now, which bag was this tube in....??)
>
> That's why I now boil wataer or use iodine pills. (or experiment
> with fast-flow felt filters.)
>
> Dan B.
>

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--- In BackpackingLight <at> yahoogroups.com, "rbird66" <rwbird <at> ...> wrote:
> --- In BackpackingLight <at> yahoogroups.com, "John J. Foster"
> <BackpackingLight <at> > wrote:
> > I just finished a wilderness first aid class offered by WMI a
> couple
> > months ago. I remember when the topic came up, both instuctors
> said that
> > these kits are of about zero value.

> Is taking an anti-inflamatory medication like Motrin a good idea?

Probably not. Most NSAID's cause thinning of the blood, which could
worsen the side effects of the snake bite (most snake venoms contain
an anticoagulant already), and the hemotoxic or neurotoxic effects of
snake byte are due to enzymes, not inflammation. Inflammation comes
later, as a response to the damage done by the enzymes in the snake
bite, at which point it may be useful to take an anti-inflammatory to
prevent further damage but by that time you're likely to be under a
doctor's care and he'll shoot you up with steroids instead to deal
with any inflammatory side effects. I personally would avoid anything
other than Tylenol for that reason, and the Tylenol would just be for
some small amount of pain relief. One thing that definitely *is* a
good idea is to take some Benadryl. Allergic reactions to proteins in
snake venom can be more deadly than the venom itself. Benadryl also
has some anti-inflammatory side effects that newer anti-histamines
don't have and doesn't have any anticoagulant effects. It does zonk
the crap out of you though -- Benadryl makes me positively walleyed.
So don't take it if your life requires being clear-headed for the next
four hours.

Other than that, calling for help, cleaning the wound, then waiting
for help to arrive is probably the best course of action. Of course,
if you're a day's walk from civilization, probably you want to head to
the nearest water source before waiting for help to arrive. But then
it's fairly rare for someone to get bitten unless they do something
really stupid. As one expert dryly notes, most snake bites involve
alcohol and the statement, "Hey Vern, watch this!". The typical
snakebite victim is male and under thirty, with a blood-alcohol
concentration of more than 0.1 percent at the time he is bitten. I've
lived in some of the snake-iest parts of the country, with some of the
most aggressive snakes around, and never come even *close* to getting
snake bitten because I treat snakes with respect and slowly back away
if I encounter one, instead of doing something stupid. That, and carry
a snake stick with me. Whapping possible snake hiding spots with said
snake stick before getting there tends to make the snakes slither
away, including the 6 foot long diamondback I ran into one evening
(eeep! That sucker's midsection was as big around as my leg!).

-E

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--- In BackpackingLight <at> yahoogroups.com, "Tim D. Williamson"
<timdwilliamson <at> ...> wrote:
>
> Also, most of the information on the web seems to be for people with
framed packs and many more adjustments than mine. All I have is
shoulder straps, waist strap and sternum.

That gives you one more strap than me (GVP G4 "Classic").

Really, pack it whatever way makes sense, and experiment until it
feels right. I use plastic trash compactor bags (a bit thicker than
plastic garbage bags) and put my sleeping gear in one, my clothes in
another, and the rest of my stuff in giant zip-lok bags (lighter than
fabric ditty bags, less of a loss when they develop a hole, easy to
carry spares with you folded up into small squares). My food is either
in an old Ursack (if I'm not in bear country) or in a bear canister
(if I'm in bear country -- having had first-hand experience with the
damage bears can do if they sniff food, I just grin and bear the
weight). So I just pile and stuff this into the pack until it feels
right. Duh!

Usually, because of the way the G4 is designed, it ends up sleeping
gear on bottom, then clothes and tarp/tent, then bear canister/bag and
the two zip-loks with cooking gear and sundries, then whatever loose
jacket or whatever that I've un-layered over the course of the day
stuffed on top of all this. If I have a groundsheet it is folded up
and slipped down the back of the pack. Various things live in the
outer pockets -- water pouch, toilet spade (an old garden spade),
wipes (for, err, wiping), water treatment stuff, GPS, sunscreen,
insect repellant, etc. I.e. basically stuff I might need like RIGHT
NOW and not want to dig in the pack for them. Or things like the
bottle of alcohol fuel that I don't want in the main compartment where
it could get squished and splat my precious fuel all over my clothing.

But this is just all trial and error for *my* pack with *my*
collection of gear. You'll have to play with your own gear.

BTW, full pack weight for a 3 day (2 night) trip is 24 pounds,
*including* food and water and fuel. And that's *with* the 2 pound
bear canister (this was for a trip into the Sierras, where the bears
are bold). I'm not "ultralight", but I'm a lot closer than I was when
I started.

-E

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