1 Nov 01:11 2004

Re:message from moderator

```
Hey Mark, it's cool, no need for concern. The monthly message is to
remind everyone, especially new folks, how we expect members to act
here for everyone's benefit. It is not a reaction to any particular
recent post.

We do encourage members to contact each other privately if they want
to explore areas that are not on topic and which will not be of
interest to everyone on the list. The BIG no-no here is any lack of
courtesy on this list, which can get those responsible into instant
trouble, (bye-bye!) But we're usually moderately tolerant of other
stuff, as long as it doesn't go on and on. So, thanks for your
continued contribution to the list's discussions, and for your
consideration for the other members.  Best,  Don L.

Redlin Mark <mjredlin <at> y...> wrote:
>     Would like to apoligize to everyone for getting to
> information seperately from now on.  Again, my
> apologizes.

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1 Nov 04:25 2004

New to Canister Stoves

```
I experimented a little this afternoon.  Brian  I boiled 6.75 liters from a
GP 110.  Total burn time was about 38 minutes.  There is about ½ oz left so
I guess this is more or less what you said I might expect  a little lean.
Jeff  Thanks for your suggestion to experiment.  To calculate fuel used, I
simply weighed the canister, boiled the amount of water that I expect to use
in a day, then weighed the canister again.  I subtracted end weight from
start weight and reasoned that the difference was the amount of fuel used 
no need to consider tare, which is constant.  Am I missing something?

Based on my test boils, Ill need 1.85 oz/day.  I rounded that up to 2
oz/day.  Ill prepare meals for (8) days so I added a day to make it (9).
Thats 18 oz of fuel.  (2) GP 250s and (1) GP 100 would provide 19.4 oz.
Thinking about all the cold, rain and snow melting Id better take (3) GP
250s .  Brrrr, AND a 110  no, settle down, now!    Its hard to imagine
that it might be cold in the mountains  almost 90 in South Alabama today.
Anyway, thanks for helping me think this through.  Ill be interested to
compare the preparations to field results to see how much my mileage really
does vary.

Andrew

>Message: 21
>   Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 16:18:33 -0000
>   From: "Brian" <bcjohnso@...>
>Subject: Re: New to Canister Stoves
>
>
>the snowpeak 110 gm. cartridges should last for 8 - 10 1 litre
>boils. Some say 6 ounces a day, the manufacturer says a cartridge
```

1 Nov 03:45 2004

Re: The Complete Idiots Guide to Backpacking for Dummies!

```
Hi,
I just found this list of gear lists today. It has a "cost contained "gear list as well. I am still putting my
stuff together for a Jan. snowshoe trip to Utah.

GaryT <garyleslee@...> wrote:

----- Original Message -----
From: craig flowers
To: BackpackingLight@...
Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2004 11:41 PM
Subject: Re: [BackpackingLight] The Complete Idiots Guide to Backpacking for Dummies!

Hi,
I would be very interested in a list of the equipment you now carry, how much it weights, and where you got it.
In hiking friendship.   / C

Craig,
I have no problem sharing the information; however, there isn't a whole lot share at the moment.

As mentioned earlier, I'm new to hiking and I'm trying to get a handle on how to go out with a lightweight
setup, whether it be a day hike or overnighter.  I'm not even thinking about multi-night trips yet.

So far, I have a MountainSmith Arete pack, 90-100 ft. of paracord, a Schrade multi-tool I've had for years or
a Victorinox Explorer, duct tape, a couple of Ozark Trail 1 litre bottles, extra socks(blend of mostly
merino wool), about a dozen different size zip ties, a few different sizes of the heavy-duty freezer bags,
a Silva Ranger Type T compass I'm learning to use, mini-maglite, lightweight waterproof jacket, polypro
LS base layer, waterproof matches in a waterproof container, a space bag, and the beginnings of a
first-aid kit.
```

1 Nov 03:49 2004

Re: The Complete Idiots Guide to Backpacking for Dummies!

```
Hi,
I just found this list of gear lists today. It has a "cost contained "gear list as well. I am still putting my
stuff together for a Jan. snowshoe trip to Utah.
Hope you enjoy.  / C

GaryT <garyleslee@...> wrote:

----- Original Message -----
From: craig flowers
To: BackpackingLight@...
Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2004 11:41 PM
Subject: Re: [BackpackingLight] The Complete Idiots Guide to Backpacking for Dummies!

Hi,
I would be very interested in a list of the equipment you now carry, how much it weights, and where you got it.
In hiking friendship.   / C

Craig,
I have no problem sharing the information; however, there isn't a whole lot share at the moment.

As mentioned earlier, I'm new to hiking and I'm trying to get a handle on how to go out with a lightweight
setup, whether it be a day hike or overnighter.  I'm not even thinking about multi-night trips yet.

So far, I have a MountainSmith Arete pack, 90-100 ft. of paracord, a Schrade multi-tool I've had for years or
a Victorinox Explorer, duct tape, a couple of Ozark Trail 1 litre bottles, extra socks(blend of mostly
merino wool), about a dozen different size zip ties, a few different sizes of the heavy-duty freezer bags,
a Silva Ranger Type T compass I'm learning to use, mini-maglite, lightweight waterproof jacket, polypro
```

1 Nov 06:00 2004

Re: The Complete Idiots Guide to Backpacking for Dummies!

```
> I just found this list of gear lists today. It has a "cost contained "gear list as well.
> I am still putting my stuff together for a Jan. snowshoe trip to Utah.
> http://www.verber.com/mark/outdoors/gear/gear-lists.html

The cost contained list is really intended for 2 seasons... not with
snow in mind.  Unless you have a lot of experience tarping I would
*not* suggest using a poncho as a tarp in snow conditions.  I would
also strongly suggest a canister or white gas stove to melt snow for
water rather an alcohol, warmer foot wear, etc.

--mark

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```

1 Nov 07:21 2004

Re: The Complete Idiots Guide to Backpacking for Dummies!

```
I agree with these most prudent suggestions.  A poncho for a tarp is minimal
under the best of conditions.  In swirling snow . . .

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Verber" <verber@...>
To: <backpackinglight@...>
Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 9:00 PM
Subject: Re: [BackpackingLight] The Complete Idiots Guide to Backpacking for
Dummies!

>
> > I just found this list of gear lists today. It has a "cost contained
"gear list as well.
> > I am still putting my stuff together for a Jan. snowshoe trip to Utah.
> > http://www.verber.com/mark/outdoors/gear/gear-lists.html
>
> The cost contained list is really intended for 2 seasons... not with
> snow in mind.  Unless you have a lot of experience tarping I would
> *not* suggest using a poncho as a tarp in snow conditions.  I would
> also strongly suggest a canister or white gas stove to melt snow for
> water rather an alcohol, warmer foot wear, etc.
>
> --mark
>

Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar.
```

1 Nov 08:09 2004

Re: New to Canister Stoves

```
--- In BackpackingLight@..., djbarryiii <at> h... wrote:
>
> ...I also put some insulation on the pot top (non-flammable,
> like cotton gloves or wool sox)to reduce the fuel needed.

Do not use your Reflectix pot cozy for this. They melt.
(Even at the top of the pot.) Do not ask how I know this.

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```

1 Nov 11:05 2004

Re: The Complete Idiots Guide to Backpacking for Dummies!

```
On Oct 29, 2004, at 9:37 PM, Mark Verber wrote:

> Backpacker's Handbook by Chris Townsend is the best book I have found.
>  Balanced and informative without being as voluminous as The Complete
> Walker.  I wish I could find a shorter book that I could recommend.
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0070653151/

Actually, there's one by Chris: the "Backpacker's Pocket Guide"
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0071370242/

Good summary of his longer books, and a good place for beginners to
start.

I also like "Allen and Mike's Really Cool Backpackin' Book" as a
shorter, fun but smart backpacking tips guide.

- Steve

(PS - looks like Townsend's Backpacker's Handbook has been updated to a
3rd edition, just out.)

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1 Nov 11:33 2004

Re: Starve to death?

```
A human is made of mostly meat (muscles) and fat, we normally consist
of enough "food" to keep us alive alive 2-3 months. The problem is
that the last 2 months the body will have lost all fat and will be
digesting it's own proteins (thus you will be "eating yourself").

The problem with lack of food is the blood glucose.

Our muscles (most of them) can use fat as their fuel, so as long as
we have enough body fat we will be able to perform physical work.

But our brain (and lungs, if I don't recall wrong) can not use fat as
fuel, they can only use glucose as fuel.

Now, fat CAN be converted to glucose, so the body would be able to do
that if it was not for the one critical catch 22: it needs glucose to
be able to do it (glocuse is needed for the first stage of Krebs
cycle, it is "paid back" afterwards, but is needed to start the fat
burning).

The body can not store much glucose (or glucogen), during intense
acitivities the depots will be depleted within 2-3 hours. The body
will then have to convert proteins to glucose to be able to support
the fat burning process.

Resarch has shown that if you can get approx 500 kcal carbohydrates
per day this will be enough to keep your body working and burning fat.

If we do NOT get these carbohydrates the body will start saving
energy by making us dull and apathetic (will prevent us from doing
```

1 Nov 04:47 2004

Re: The Complete Idiots Guide to Backpacking for Dummies!

```
Craig,
Thanks for the link.  I haven't looked at everything yet, but I scanned over the "Cost Contained" list.  It
looks like a very complete, well-thought out list.

I really appreciate the time you took to respond with some very good resources.  While experience may be the
best teacher; it sure doesn't hurt to get lots of good advice and suggestions when starting out.

Thanks Again,
Gary

----- Original Message -----
From: craig flowers
To: BackpackingLight@...
Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 9:49 PM
Subject: Re: [BackpackingLight] The Complete Idiots Guide to Backpacking for Dummies!

Hi,
I just found this list of gear lists today. It has a "cost contained "gear list as well. I am still putting my
stuff together for a Jan. snowshoe trip to Utah.
Hope you enjoy.  / C

GaryT <garyleslee@...> wrote:

----- Original Message -----
From: craig flowers
To: BackpackingLight@...
Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2004 11:41 PM
Subject: Re: [BackpackingLight] The Complete Idiots Guide to Backpacking for Dummies!
```