Tom Smith | 1 Jan 2006 01:09
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Re: Okay, I admit it, I think ABA is BS

Bingo, you were right Tink.  

Rose, we have been around the block on this for 7 years.  I will check
out the BAAM thing.  I remembered about BAAM after I asked Sheree
about it a few weeks ago.  BAAM along with your allies in ABA have
successfully banned FC worldwide.  If your not right about FC, and I
know you aren't, congrats on ten years lost of the best intervention
ever for autism.

Tom

--- In autismlist <at> yahoogroups.com, Rose Alford <omlick <at> y...> wrote:
>
> Yes, I am one of those who believe that ABA is the
> best way to educate a person with autism, I am not
> saying that it is a cure or that the person's autism
> should be eliminated to the point where they seem to
> be indistinguishable from their NT peers.  All I am
> saying is that to teach living skills and
> communciative skills, the techniques of ABA can be
> effective in many cases.  And ABA done properly is not
> punitive or inhumane.  We always used positive
> reinforcement with my son, and rarely did he ever
> receive any "adversives" unless he was being outright
> physically agressive and in this case he had to go
> time out. 
> 
> We always gave him breaks and monitored his level of
> frustration so that he would not get to the point of
> agressing.  
(Continue reading)

Sheree Burke | 1 Jan 2006 04:51
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FC

Char:

 

Very well said.  Rose, as Char mentioned, I have found throughout the years, that many, if not perhaps most which are critical of the method, have NEVER sat down and talked with a person who utilizes this method of communication.  Every time we ask them if they understand why and how the motor planning impairment of muscle function impacts the reason for physical stabilization for most of those using FC. May I ask if you have sat with someone using the method?  I find it so irresponsible and quite frankly, damaging, to make those opinions without first-hand experience or knowledge.

 

My case in point….we were with Dr. Biklen in Boston in July where the NLM Foundation was sponsoring a call for papers regarding new developments for those with communication impairments.  My son was invited as a discussant.  Another discussant was a doctor in the field of neurocognition.  He apparently had a negative opinion of FC, and did not involve us in a lot of his discussion.  However, by the end of the day, he approached Dr. Biklen and to say his opinion had changed!  Making a decision from the negative research, as opposed to sitting with someone using the method, can at the very least, make you reevaluate your opinion. Yes-now he can type with no physical support one-handed, with me just holding the device.  There are others –Sue Rubin, Sharissa Kochmeister, Tyler Fihe, and Chandima Rajapatiriana. Those are only the people I personally know….I am certain there are others.  We all started with support under the wrist.  I think I can speak for those people that it has taken hundreds and hundreds of hours of hard work on their part, and a lot of work supporting them from their families and schools. 

 

When you say “it’s BS”, you  do such a disservice to so many who need this in order to participate in life; to not have others make all the choices for them, or talking for them, or to them, like they are toddlers in adult bodies.  I do acknowledge you are entitled to your opinion, but as Tom said, we’ve been going around this for so many years, it becomes old, and we get weary of it.  But when a person can change their mind about it, and be big enough to acknowledge that, it gives us a little more “oomph” to go out and keep on.  So I would ask you, if at all possible, to sit with someone using FC and see if at the end, you still feel the same about it being “BS.” 

Regards,

Sheree


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Tink | 1 Jan 2006 06:05
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HAPPY NEW YEAR!

Blessings and all good wishes in Joy ~ for a bright and promising 2006 !!
 
Thank you for all you do to make the World a brighter place ~*~
 
Tink, Ben, Orion, Sarah



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Tom Smith | 1 Jan 2006 09:03
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Happy New Year 2006

Let's pray that this is the year for the most oppressed.  That's who we
are and who we represent.

Tom Smith
List Owner

	
		
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.. Brian Henson .. | 1 Jan 2006 18:23
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Re: Happy New Year 2006

Let's expand that, Tom, and included not only
those who are oppressed, but those who are
depressed, as well. If the iron is on you, it does
not matter if it comes from within or without... the
pressure is there, and alleviating that pressure
is all that there is to do. It's the relief that takes 
precedent over the cause.

And, I might add, FC is just one great relief for
many autistic individuals who use it! Keep up 
the GREAT work in 2006!

.

>Message: 5         
>   Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 00:03:14 -0800 (PST)
>   From: Tom Smith <qim <at> yahoo.com>
>Subject: Happy New Year 2006
>
>Let's pray that this is the year for the most oppressed.
>That's who we are and who we represent.

>Tom Smith
>List Owner

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marti | 1 Jan 2006 20:14

I just need someone to tell me what to do

I took my 19yo son to our University hosp last Thurs. He had been getting 
very aggressive and lots of self injury.
The doc suggested that he be hospitalized then and now which was fine 
because we had tried to get him admitted before but were truned away due to 
no beds.
When he heard that the Doc wanted him hospitalized that day-he went 
balistic, beating me and finally when they got him off, I headed torwards 
the door and he nailed me again. You know-they changed his plans with no 
warning, he wanted to go shopping after the Doc visit so I understand why he 
was upset.
It took 4 guards and 3 docs to hold him down until they got restraints on 
(so I was told-they took me away and thet was ok with me) and gave him 
haldol.
Long long story short and what I need help with, He's been in restraints for 
the better part of 3 days, finally he's out of restraints but still in 
seclusion. What this means is that for the past 4 days my child has been in 
a room all alone, with no toys, no radio, no tv, no book, no pictures to 
look at, no communication with mom, no nothing. This AM the nurse told me 
he's sitting on a mat rocking back and forth a behavior i haven't seen in 16 
years! I'm dying thinking obout this. They say he can't come out on 
seclusion because he's still consider a danger to himself and/or others.
You know-keeping him down like this dates back to the 50"s.
What would you all do? I just want to bring him home and make every thing 
better. There's got to be a better way for them to handle this.
Marti 

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Rose Alford | 1 Jan 2006 21:24
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Re: I just need someone to tell me what to do

Dear Marti,
 
I know someone who has an aggessive son your age and she uses medical marijuana to keep him calm, and he functions just fine, except he needs a lot of it and that could be a problem.  Of course you have to live in a state that allows  MM, and if you don't your are screwed.  But I will warn you, that even in a state with a MM law sometimes it is hard to get the stuff, and growing it yourself is not a trivial matter.
 
No smoking is involved, she makes oil based capsules for him and also bakes with it too.  You can also inhale it through a "vaporizer" which is a safe way to ingest since it doesn't involve inhaling carcinogens from a burning process. 
 
MM is also used to treat agitation and aggression in Alzheimers patients too, so it is not too far fetch ed to apply it to autistic aggression when you think about it.  For some reason cannabis usually makes people less likely to aggress, I guess it takes the edge off whatever is the thing that is triggering the aggression.
 
The advantage to MM over Hadol and those type of medications is that cannabis does not cause brain damage that causes the parkinson-like symptoms those medications can cause over long term use.  I heard it is a very safe and gentle drug although I don't know too much about it yet myself.  I just thank my lucky stars that Sam rarely aggesses against others and has no self-injurious behaviors.  I was surprised to hear that it is being used with autistics by some parents with success in treating aggression, agitation, and severe anxiety.
 
Good luck
 
Rose
 
 
 


marti <morprozk <at> d irecway.com> wrote:
I took my 19yo son to our University hosp last Thurs. He had been getting
very aggressive and lots of self injury.
The doc suggested that he be hospitalized then and now which was fine
because we had tried to get him admitted before but were truned away due to
no beds.
When he heard that the Doc wanted him hospitalized that day-he went
balistic, beating me and finally when they got him off, I headed torwards
the door and he nailed me again. You know-they changed his plans with no
warning, he wanted to go shopping after the Doc visit so I understand why he
was upset.
It took 4 guards and 3 docs to hold him down until they got restraints on
(so I was told-they took me away and thet was ok with me) and gave him
haldol.
Long long story short and what I need help with, He's been in restraints fo r
the better part of 3 days, finally he's out of restraints but still in
seclusion. What this means is that for the past 4 days my child has been in
a room all alone, with no toys, no radio, no tv, no book, no pictures to
look at, no communication with mom, no nothing. This AM the nurse told me
he's sitting on a mat rocking back and forth a behavior i haven't seen in 16
years! I'm dying thinking obout this. They say he can't come out on
seclusion because he's still consider a danger to himself and/or others.
You know-keeping him down like this dates back to the 50"s.
What would you all do? I just want to bring him home and make every thing
better. There's got to be a better way for them to handle this.
Marti



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Tom Smith | 1 Jan 2006 23:06
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Re: I just need someone to tell me what to do

You mean all these years I have been medicating myself?  What an
original idea.

Tom

--- Rose Alford <omlick <at> yahoo.com> wrote:

> Dear Marti,
>    
>   I know someone who has an aggessive son your age and she uses
> medical marijuana to keep him calm, and he functions just fine,
> except he needs a lot of it and that could be a problem.  Of course
> you have to live in a state that allows  MM, and if you don't your
> are screwed.  But I will warn you, that even in a state with a MM law
> sometimes it is hard to get the stuff, and growing it yourself is not
> a trivial matter.
>    
>   No smoking is involved, she makes oil based capsules for him and
> also bakes with it too.  You can also inhale it through a "vaporizer"
> which is a safe way to ingest since it doesn't involve inhaling
> carcinogens from a burning process.  
>    
>   MM is also used to treat agitation and aggression in Alzheimers
> patients too, so it is not too far fetched to apply it to autistic
> aggression when you think about it.  For some reason cannabis usually
> makes people less likely to aggress, I guess it takes the edge off
> whatever is the thing that is triggering the aggression.
>    
>   The advantage to MM over Hadol and those type of medications is
> that cannabis does not cause brain damage that causes the
> parkinson-like symptoms those medications can cause over long term
> use.  I heard it is a very safe and gentle drug although I don't know
> too much about it yet myself.  I just thank my lucky stars that Sam
> rarely aggesses against others and has no self-injurious behaviors. 
> I was surprised to hear that it is being used with autistics by some
> parents with success in treating aggression, agitation, and severe
> anxiety.
>    
>   Good luck
>    
>   Rose
>    
>    
>    
>   
> 
> marti <morprozk <at> direcway.com> wrote:
>   I took my 19yo son to our University hosp last Thurs. He had been
> getting 
> very aggressive and lots of self injury.
> The doc suggested that he be hospitalized then and now which was fine
> 
> because we had tried to get him admitted before but were truned away
> due to 
> no beds.
> When he heard that the Doc wanted him hospitalized that day-he went 
> balistic, beating me and finally when they got him off, I headed
> torwards 
> the door and he nailed me again. You know-they changed his plans with
> no 
> warning, he wanted to go shopping after the Doc visit so I understand
> why he 
> was upset.
> It took 4 guards and 3 docs to hold him down until they got
> restraints on 
> (so I was told-they took me away and thet was ok with me) and gave
> him 
> haldol.
> Long long story short and what I need help with, He's been in
> restraints for 
> the better part of 3 days, finally he's out of restraints but still
> in 
> seclusion. What this means is that for the past 4 days my child has
> been in 
> a room all alone, with no toys, no radio, no tv, no book, no pictures
> to 
> look at, no communication with mom, no nothing. This AM the nurse
> told me 
> he's sitting on a mat rocking back and forth a behavior i haven't
> seen in 16 
> years! I'm dying thinking obout this. They say he can't come out on 
> seclusion because he's still consider a danger to himself and/or
> others.
> You know-keeping him down like this dates back to the 50"s.
> What would you all do? I just want to bring him home and make every
> thing 
> better. There's got to be a better way for them to handle this.
> Marti 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.9/216 - Release Date:
> 12/29/2005
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
> 		
> ---------------------------------
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Tom Smith | 1 Jan 2006 23:05
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Re: Happy New Year 2006

Good point Brian about internal vs external oppression.  All New Years
Eve, right up to 15 minutes before midnite, I was having that internal
oppression in the form of an extremely painful tooth ache.  I sent this
New Years email an hour later in gratitude that the pain alleviated.  I
was in pure agony and thought I would have to welcome in the New Year
that way.  Maybe it was the tea bag that did the trick.

I found out recently that some places are starting to encourage and
support the use of FC.  Maybe that's why we have some of the old school
BABers (ABAers) visiting here again.  The old ways die hard I guess.

Happy New Year Brain.

Tom

--- ".. Brian Henson .." <bhenson <at> bfree.on.ca> wrote:

> Let's expand that, Tom, and included not only
> those who are oppressed, but those who are
> depressed, as well. If the iron is on you, it does
> not matter if it comes from within or without... the
> pressure is there, and alleviating that pressure
> is all that there is to do. It's the relief that takes 
> precedent over the cause.
> 
> And, I might add, FC is just one great relief for
> many autistic individuals who use it! Keep up 
> the GREAT work in 2006!
> 
> .
> 
> >Message: 5         
> >   Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 00:03:14 -0800 (PST)
> >   From: Tom Smith <qim <at> yahoo.com>
> >Subject: Happy New Year 2006
> >
> >Let's pray that this is the year for the most oppressed.
> >That's who we are and who we represent.
> 
> >Tom Smith
> >List Owner
> 
> 
> 
> ---
> avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
> Virus Database (VPS): 0552-4, 30/12/2005
> Tested on: 1/1/2006 12:24:13 PM
> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2004 ALWIL Software.
> http://www.avast.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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>  
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Tom Smith | 1 Jan 2006 23:10
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Re: I just need someone to tell me what to do

Marti,

What they are doing is against the law.  Call the police or your local
DD advocacy agency pront.

Tom

--- marti <morprozk <at> direcway.com> wrote:

> I took my 19yo son to our University hosp last Thurs. He had been
> getting 
> very aggressive and lots of self injury.
> The doc suggested that he be hospitalized then and now which was fine
> 
> because we had tried to get him admitted before but were truned away
> due to 
> no beds.
> When he heard that the Doc wanted him hospitalized that day-he went 
> balistic, beating me and finally when they got him off, I headed
> torwards 
> the door and he nailed me again. You know-they changed his plans with
> no 
> warning, he wanted to go shopping after the Doc visit so I understand
> why he 
> was upset.
> It took 4 guards and 3 docs to hold him down until they got
> restraints on 
> (so I was told-they took me away and thet was ok with me) and gave
> him 
> haldol.
> Long long story short and what I need help with, He's been in
> restraints for 
> the better part of 3 days, finally he's out of restraints but still
> in 
> seclusion. What this means is that for the past 4 days my child has
> been in 
> a room all alone, with no toys, no radio, no tv, no book, no pictures
> to 
> look at, no communication with mom, no nothing. This AM the nurse
> told me 
> he's sitting on a mat rocking back and forth a behavior i haven't
> seen in 16 
> years! I'm dying thinking obout this. They say he can't come out on 
> seclusion because he's still consider a danger to himself and/or
> others.
> You know-keeping him down like this dates back to the 50"s.
> What would you all do? I just want to bring him home and make every
> thing 
> better. There's got to be a better way for them to handle this.
> Marti 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.9/216 - Release Date:
> 12/29/2005
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> --------------------~--> 
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