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info | 1 Nov 2001 01:26

Re: Let's do it for real

--- In wtl@..., "Chris Russell" <cdr <at> e...> wrote:
> I don't like the idea of an iDevResource logo on every page. A 
community
> site should be a community site where everyone gets credit in 
proportion to
> their effort.

Hang on a minute. Who said anything about an IDR logo on every page? 
Take a look at this http://www.webpr.co.uk.waim - that is the 
software I mentioned earlier and that is running on my server as a 
favour to WAIM. Point me to the Cybersavvy UK logo (my company) on 
every page? We don't think like that.

For starters, iDR is run by a group of developers including Richard 
Grimes, who told me to start a WTL group which I have moderated ever 
since, just as I do the COMdeveloper group, and many others. All iDR 
sites are run by the community. I would love to see anything which 
states any of us have received money for doing all this for the last 
2 years. Every penny the sites have generated, and it ain't very 
many, has paid for the server space, developing the software to run 
the sites etc. 

On December 1st we celebrate our 2nd birthday and it's thanks to the 
community content we are still going strong. And the fact that we 
don't get any wages. Yep, this is a hobby. It was never meant to be 
but that's the way it has worked out. One day maybe that will 
change...here's hoping.

The idea was to run worldofwtl as a community site, run by the WTL 
community as I clearly stated earlier. We have plenty of server
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Paul Selormey | 1 Nov 2001 01:29

Re: Let's do it for real

Hello Chris,
The idea of a WTL exclusive site is great and welcomed. However, the poll
is too early. Paying $20 may not be the problem-we need to be assured on a
good
site managements, since this is not going to be your main.

Codeproject is also hosting a lot of articles on WTL, and I think Chris
Maunder will love to
give more space and resources to the WTL. There is therefore a need to
discuss this well,
please give it a time.

Best regards,
Paul.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Russell" <cdr@...>
To: <wtl@...>
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 5:34 AM
Subject: [wtl] Let's do it for real

> I don't like the idea of an iDevResource logo on every page. A community
> site should be a community site where everyone gets credit in proportion
to
> their effort.
>
> How many people here would throw $20 into a PayPal account to pay for a
> professional hosting account somewhere?
>
> Say $20 is your dues for the year. Membership gets you a vote on site
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Chris Russell | 1 Nov 2001 05:27

Re: Re: Let's do it for real

If I could rewrite my original post, I would replace iDevResource with
Company-X. So:> I don't like the idea of a Company-X logo on every page.
Sorry Lindsey, my comments were unnecessarily directed at iDevResource.

You wrote:

>>> iDevResource.com, who run this list, have a WTL section and you can
submit anything you want to it. Just contact us at
info@... with the content you want adding and we will
put it up. As many of you will know, there are already articles there
from the likes of Dr Richard Grimes, and more would be useful for all
WTL developers everywhere.

But we're talking about creating a SourceForge "Project Homepage" with
content that is closely coupled with code in a revision-controlled
repository. In order to serve the list members most directly, I think it's
important to give the people working on the code repository control over the
server that hosts this "Project Homepage." The neat-and-tidy way to do this
securely is to park it on some rented server space provided by one of the
professional hosting shops and give project contributors the password. It's
not really about trying to replace any existing resource so much as it's
about setting up to collaborate on code development and maintenance. Also,
this might give some of us on the list who are working with WTL and other
web-related technologies an opportunity to solve a practical problem with
some educational hacking. I think it could be useful, fun, and everyone who
wants to participate can.

- Chris
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Mark A. Gregory | 1 Nov 2001 12:37
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RE: Re: Let's do it for real

Is Nenad out there? We would like his participation in this discussion,
and we do appreciate his assistance
cheers
Mark

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Russell [mailto:cdr@...] 
Sent: Thursday, 1 November 2001 3:27 PM
To: wtl@...
Subject: Re: [wtl] Re: Let's do it for real

If I could rewrite my original post, I would replace
iDevResource with
Company-X. So:> I don't like the idea of a Company-X logo on
every page.
Sorry Lindsey, my comments were unnecessarily directed at
iDevResource.

You wrote:

>>> iDevResource.com, who run this list, have a WTL section and
you can
submit anything you want to it. Just contact us at
info@... with the content you want adding and we
will
put it up. As many of you will know, there are already articles
there
from the likes of Dr Richard Grimes, and more would be useful
for all
WTL developers everywhere.
(Continue reading)

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Taras Tielkes | 1 Nov 2001 17:35
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Favicon

Re: Let's do it for real

Hi,

I agree with Tim on this: what will an extra/new site add to the whole
thing?

It would be more practical to address issues like WTL modification
distribution.
We could, for instance, agree on what patch system to use.

// tt

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Russell" <cdr@...>
To: <wtl@...>
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 05:27
Subject: Re: [wtl] Re: Let's do it for real

> If I could rewrite my original post, I would replace iDevResource with
> Company-X. So:> I don't like the idea of a Company-X logo on every page.
> Sorry Lindsey, my comments were unnecessarily directed at iDevResource.
>
> You wrote:
>
> >>> iDevResource.com, who run this list, have a WTL section and you can
> submit anything you want to it. Just contact us at
> info@... with the content you want adding and we will
> put it up. As many of you will know, there are already articles there
> from the likes of Dr Richard Grimes, and more would be useful for all
> WTL developers everywhere.
>
(Continue reading)

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Chris Russell | 1 Nov 2001 19:42

Code repository Re: Re: Let's do it for real

As proposed, this "patch system" is revision-controlled .h files stored in a
SourceForge CVS database and a companion "Project Homepage" website that
discusses and documents the revision history and presents tutorial examples
about designing w/and integrating code maintained in the repository. Using
SourceForge proper is one idea. Putting the project there would get us CVS
for source control. I'm now going to shut up about this, see how the poll
does over the next week or two and wait for Nenad to get back.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Taras Tielkes" <taras@...>
To: <wtl@...>
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 11:35 AM
Subject: [wtl] Re: Let's do it for real

> Hi,
>
> I agree with Tim on this: what will an extra/new site add to the whole
> thing?
>
> It would be more practical to address issues like WTL modification
> distribution.
> We could, for instance, agree on what patch system to use.
>
> // tt
>
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Tim Tabor | 1 Nov 2001 20:11
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RE: Code repository Re: Re: Let's do it for real

I sincerely hope that MS doesn't support this 
centralized open-source effort. WTL is a fabulous 
library, with a proven track record. I see nothing
but bad things from engineers less gifted than
Nenad (which certainly includes most of us are) 
attempting to expand and improve upon it.

It might have been a good idea to differentiate
dissenting votes in the current survey, rather 
than simply "can't / won't" pay. I voted "No", 
but I could probably have scratched up $20 per 
year if I thought it was a good idea.

Advocates of this effort should attempt to quanitfy
the potential demand for this centralized WTL code
repository. A comparison to boost.org has been 
suggested. That's really not relevant considering 
the comparative sizes of the C++ and WTL communities,
and the proprietary nature of the WTL library.

I'm sure many people writing WTL will incorproate
open source code into their project. But I'm
also confident that most individuals and companies
using WTL will not.

I am saddened that this list has moved from technical
issues to advocacy. But the world turns, and I didn't
want to leave the alternate view unexpressed.

Regards to all,
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Leon Finker | 1 Nov 2001 20:36
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Re: Code repository

while on the same note...anyone tried the new VS.NET 
codeswap thing http://www.vscodeswap.com/?
Looks/Sounds like a good idea...
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Taras Tielkes | 1 Nov 2001 21:11
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Re: Let's do it for real

Hi,

The problem is that WTL is not free to distribute.
So the only thing you could put into CVS are the patch file themselves.
(Assuming you're dealing with patches to the *main WTL headers*). There are
different "patch file" formats...

Since most of the bugs will be fixed in the new release, I don't see a
strong need for this, except for things like a CE port.

Personally, I am satisfied with the current situation.

Bugs in WTL itself are fixed by Nenad. (thanks!)
Lindsey is doing a great job managing this list. (thanks!)
Additional WTL classes and samples can be posted at the site of preference,
be it Code Project, IDevResource or a personal site.

// tt

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Russell" <cdr@...>
To: <wtl@...>
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 19:42
Subject: Code repository Re: [wtl] Re: Let's do it for real

> As proposed, this "patch system" is revision-controlled .h files stored in
a
> SourceForge CVS database and a companion "Project Homepage" website that
> discusses and documents the revision history and presents tutorial
examples
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Frankinet Noël | 1 Nov 2001 21:28

Re: Code repository Re: Re: Let's do it for real

I don't really understand the whole point. It's just a library. The idea
of a central repository for tutorial, patches, and open source add-on is
just a way to help other people to use wtl and to promote its use in
real world project. If I was as gifted as Nenad as a programmer, I
wouldn't need help, samples or tutorial. Maybe, as an average
programmer, I should stop using wtl altogether, since I expand and
improve it for my own use, probably in a less then stellar way. If a
majority think that the current situation is optimal - an unsupported,
under documented library, well let it be.
Noel

Tim Tabor wrote:
> 
> I sincerely hope that MS doesn't support this
> centralized open-source effort. WTL is a fabulous
> library, with a proven track record. I see nothing
> but bad things from engineers less gifted than
> Nenad (which certainly includes most of us are)
> attempting to expand and improve upon it.
> 
> It might have been a good idea to differentiate
> dissenting votes in the current survey, rather
> than simply "can't / won't" pay. I voted "No",
> but I could probably have scratched up $20 per
> year if I thought it was a good idea.
> 
> Advocates of this effort should attempt to quanitfy
> the potential demand for this centralized WTL code
> repository. A comparison to boost.org has been
> suggested. That's really not relevant considering
(Continue reading)

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