Re: Where are the discussions happening?

Sidnei da Silva wrote:
> So is it a fork? Is it a package split?

Started out as a split, turned partly into a fork, but with much code 
moved over carbon copy.

\malthe

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Re: Plone Tests: 9 OK, 8 Failed, 1 Unknown

What happened here? A few days ago we had 14 OK, now it's down to 9? :)

— Alexander

On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 04:00:08 -0700, Plone Tests Summarizer  
<plone-tests <at> epy.co.at> wrote:

> Summary of messages to the testbot list.
> Period Sun Mar 30 11:00:00 2008 UTC to Mon Mar 31 11:00:00 2008 UTC.
> There were 18 messages: 5 from ATContentTypes Tests, 5 from Archetypes  
> Tests, 5 from CMFPlone Tests, 3 from plone.* Tests.
>
>
> Test failures
> -------------
>
> Subject: FAILED (failures=1, errors=1) : Plone-3.0 Zope-2.10 Python-2.4.4
> From: CMFPlone Tests
> Date: Mon Mar 31 03:23:26 UTC 2008
> URL: http://lists.plone.org/pipermail/testbot/2008-March/002020.html
>
> Subject: FAILED (failures=9) : Plone-trunk Zope-2.11 Python-2.4.4
> From: CMFPlone Tests
> Date: Mon Mar 31 03:26:26 UTC 2008
> URL: http://lists.plone.org/pipermail/testbot/2008-March/002022.html
>
> Subject: FAILED (failures=18) : Plone-3.0 Zope-2.10 Python-2.4.4
> From: plone.* Tests
> Date: Mon Mar 31 03:36:57 UTC 2008
> URL: http://lists.plone.org/pipermail/testbot/2008-March/002023.html

Re: PSPS08-7832: Devilstick

Hi,

Am Montag, den 31.03.2008, 17:07 +0100 schrieb Laurence Rowe:
> 1) comparison with Dexterity
We see dexterity as an application based upon devilstick, indeed.

> 2) Mixing of storage and schema definition
> 
> I think this is a mistake. I would rather have these to be configured 
> seperately, so it is easier for integrators to change storage 
> strategies. (even through the web)
This is the half truth (at least in our opinion). if you assume the xml
files as model description, the mixture is good here. From this point of
view the model basically describes the data structure, the view options
only extend the model in a semantic way.

We made this decition because we strongly wanted to avoid growing the
number of configuration files for describing one thing too big.

At software design level, the storage and the rendering is strongly
seperated from each other, but both get the required information from
the same model.

> 
> 3) Cages, molecules and atoms
...
> 
> So in short:
> 
> * Make the object / zope.schema interface the minimum level of 

Re: PSPS08-7832: Devilstick

Am Montag, den 31.03.2008, 00:06 +0200 schrieb Malthe Borch: 
> Martin Aspeli wrote:
> > I really don't want option 3 or 4. :) Note that Dexterity is only a 
> > concept at this stage. Devilstick is code. That counts for a lot.
> 
> Not if it's untested and undebated.

i'm a little bit surprised in your negative attitude.

even if it is untested (automated), there was a foregone debate about
the needs which took longer than a year before the first line of code
was written. and even if this debate was not public (through the mailing
list) the design result is reasonable, even if you're not going conform
with it.

beyond that, the current code came along by a bunch of refactorings of
proto types, there are some dirty interfaces left, but they are known,
and easily alterable by a better solution, keyword CA. 

> If I may be so blunt, and partly recite some critical voices heard in 
> Sorrento, the devilstick project has an air of developers gone off to a 
> desert island.
please explain to me a 'developement desert island'.

> Pythonphobia: I think it's very unfortunate to shy away from development 
> in the native code domain to the extend that "programming" in a 
> declarative XML-dialect is the primary development strategy. Python is a 
> great language, and to move such a large part of development away from 
> Python is simply wrong;

drag and drop for Plone

I just want to post this here so anyone who is working on drag-and-drop or wants to work in it reads this.

Hi Ricardo,

We used the buildout below for developing a first draft of drag-and-drop in Plone using the Yahoo UI library.

https://svn.plone.org/svn/collective/kss.plugin.yuidnd/buildout/trunk

We studied a number of open libraries but Yahoo had the best implementation. This is a bit cumbersome now
that Plone has chosen to use jquery in almost all other scripts.
I preferred to stay on one library, but jquery's dnd implementation is not suitable for Plone because only
one draggable instance can be created or something (ask Guido for details).

For our customer we use kss.plugin.yuidnd in production as of this week. The Plone implementation is quite
a challenge because the whole portlet ui needs to at least incorporate portlet management actions like
Delete and Edit, optionally 'Minimize', like most portlet systems have. We also rewrote the portlet
storage because in the current plone implementation portlet assignment and ordering are stored in one
place. Our customer want to be able to assign portlets in the dashboard which are not deleteable by member.
So storage of ordering needs to go into a separate annotation.  That way members can still dnd with both
static and selfadded portlets.

In our buildout you'll note that I had to add a ColumnManager to forsee in draging between columns. An idea
Balasz Ree proposed was to Replace ColumnManager and PortletManager with a Grid based Manager which
knows how to move a portlet from one column to another.

I'm willing to provide the code we used for our customer to implement the dashboard with static portlets
(which members can't remove from their dashboard).

I hope this will help you.

Re: PSPS08-7832: Devilstick

Hi,

Am Sonntag, den 30.03.2008, 15:55 +0200 schrieb Hanno Schlichting:

> 
> So this example would look like this instead:
> 
> <?xml version="1.0"?>
> <object xmlns:i18n="http://xml.zope.org/namespaces/i18n"
>          i18n:domain="yourdomain">
> 
>    <cage>
>      <id>TrackerItem</id>
>      <title i18n:translate="label_tracker_item">Tracker Item</title>
>      <description i18n:translate="description_tracker_item">
>        A Tracker Item
>      </description>
>      <storage>zodb</storage>
>    </cage>
> 
> </object>
+1 for this.

Robert

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Re: Plone Tests: 9 OK, 8 Failed, 1 Unknown

On Apr 1, 2008, at 4:37 AM, Alexander Limi wrote:
> What happened here? A few days ago we had 14 OK, now it's down to  
> 9? :)

i reckon most of the new ones are my fault, well sort of.  i've  
started to integrate the csrf protection and didn't check if all  
packages already had proper 3.0 maintenance branches (used for the 3.0  
ploneout and 3.0-lib), so the changes caused failures since  
plone.protect isn't part of 3.0, of course.  however, i've created the  
missing branches in the meantime, so today things should be back to  
normal...

andi

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Re: drag and drop for Plone

Hi Jean-Paul,

Jean-Paul Ladage wrote:
> I just want to post this here so anyone who is working on
> drag-and-drop or wants to work in it reads this.
> 
> Hi Ricardo,
> 
> We used the buildout below for developing a first draft of
> drag-and-drop in Plone using the Yahoo UI library.
> 
> https://svn.plone.org/svn/collective/kss.plugin.yuidnd/buildout/trunk
> 
> 
> We studied a number of open libraries but Yahoo had the best
> implementation. This is a bit cumbersome now that Plone has chosen to
> use jquery in almost all other scripts. I preferred to stay on one
> library, but jquery's dnd implementation is not suitable for Plone
> because only one draggable instance can be created or something (ask
> Guido for details).

I think this is a bit unfortunate too, probably adding even more JS to 
download. How big is the impact on performance? On consistency?

I would strongly prefer to stay with jQuery + KSS. I know the jQuery DnD 
implementation was shoddy a while ago, but I was under the impression it 
had come a long way recently with a new release of "jQuery Interface". 
It's probably worth another look, at least - things move fast in that space.

> For our customer we use kss.plugin.yuidnd in production as of this

Re: PSPS08-7832: Devilstick

Robert Niederreiter wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Am Montag, den 31.03.2008, 17:07 +0100 schrieb Laurence Rowe:
>> 1) comparison with Dexterity
> We see dexterity as an application based upon devilstick, indeed.

I'd just like to clarify (and I know Robert agrees, as per a private 
email), that this is a potential future state, not an explicit, 
immediate design goal. I think the two systems need to evolve 
independently for a bit, explore their respective problem spaces, but 
also keen an eye to what code and concepts can be shared.

Martin

--

-- 
Author of `Professional Plone Development`, a book for developers who
want to work with Plone. See http://martinaspeli.net/plone-book

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Re: PSPS08-7832: Devilstick

Am Mon, 31 Mar 2008 21:26:49 +0000 schrieb Maurits van Rees:
[...]
>> What is Devilstick?
>>===================
> 
> If you don't mind a non-technical question: yes, what is it?  Why this
> name?  The only thing I could think of was that we are going to beat the
> Archetypes devil (disguised as a helpful angel most of the time) with a
> stick.  
> 
> According to wikipedia at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil_sticks a
> devil stick is used in a circus act, a bit like juggling.  So what has
> this got to do with content types?

Look yourself!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mrtopf/2378326494/in/set-72157604254014808/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24968294 <at> N07/2369093391/

Jensens

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