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Romain Griffiths | 1 Jul 2007 09:54
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Re: PLIP #188: Configurable content views

Hi everyone,

In my company we did a mobile phone CMS with Plone.
In our plone products we have contents (logos, videos, etc) and
presentation elements (texts, links, real content layouter, etc).

We use a folderish page which contains presentation elements, some of
these are folderish and serves as layout configuration for the
contents they contains.

Romain

2007/6/30, Malthe Borch <mborch <at> gmail.com>:
> Hello, ––
>
> New PLIP (draft): http://plone.org/products/plone/roadmap/188
>
> Summary: "In order for Plone to continue down the path of truly
> separating content and presentation, it makes sense to support
> configurable content views. An example of a content-type that mixes
> the two is the Smart Folder where you have fields that are only
> related to the presentation. We should support a way of separating
> such configuration options from the content objects."
>
> Please comment.
>
> \malthe
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Tim Hicks | 2 Jul 2007 02:04
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More problems with ploneout on windows

Hi,

I'm still having problems getting ploneout to work on Windows
(specifically, XP Home).  I can now get as far as executing
"bin\buildout.exe -v", but then get an error (see below).

To rectify this problem, I have tried installing
<http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=fe6f2099-b7b4-4f47-a244-c96d69c35dec&displaylang=en>,
but that doesn't seem to have any effect.

Anyone got any ideas on what's wrong here?

Tim

C:\plone\plone30>bin\buildout.exe -v
Installing 'zc.buildout', 'setuptools'.
We have the best distribution that satisfies 'zc.buildout'.
Picked: zc.buildout = 1.0.0b27
We have the best distribution that satisfies 'setuptools'.
Picked: setuptools = 0.6c6
Develop: 'C:\\plone\\plone30\\src/archetypes.kss'
Develop: 'C:\\plone\\plone30\\src/kss.core'
Develop: 'C:\\plone\\plone30\\src/plone.app.contentmenu'
Develop: 'C:\\plone\\plone30\\src/plone.app.content'
Develop: 'C:\\plone\\plone30\\src/plone.app.contentrules'
Develop: 'C:\\plone\\plone30\\src/plone.app.controlpanel'
Develop: 'C:\\plone\\plone30\\src/plone.app.customerize'
Develop: 'C:\\plone\\plone30\\src/plone.app.form'
Develop: 'C:\\plone\\plone30\\src/plone.app.i18n'
Develop: 'C:\\plone\\plone30\\src/plone.app.iterate'
(Continue reading)

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Hanno Schlichting | 2 Jul 2007 09:00
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Re: More problems with ploneout on windows

Hi,

Tim Hicks wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm still having problems getting ploneout to work on Windows
> (specifically, XP Home).  I can now get as far as executing
> "bin\buildout.exe -v", but then get an error (see below).
> 
> To rectify this problem, I have tried installing
> <http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=fe6f2099-b7b4-4f47-a244-c96d69c35dec&displaylang=en>,
> but that doesn't seem to have any effect.
> 
> Anyone got any ideas on what's wrong here?

Did you follow the steps in WINDOWS.txt? Specifically installed MinGW
and adjusted the distutils.cfg file?

It looks like distutils cannot find the right C compiler.

You can also try to run 'python setup.py build_ext -i' in a Zope
checkout or unpacked tarball, to see if Zope C extensions can be
compiled (the above command is essentially what the zope2install recipe
does).

Hanno

> C:\plone\plone30>bin\buildout.exe -v
> Installing 'zc.buildout', 'setuptools'.
> We have the best distribution that satisfies 'zc.buildout'.
(Continue reading)

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Ricardo Newbery | 2 Jul 2007 10:37

Re: PLIP #188: Configurable content views


On Jun 30, 2007, at 4:38 AM, Malthe Borch wrote:

> Hello, ––
>
> New PLIP (draft): http://plone.org/products/plone/roadmap/188
>
> Summary: "In order for Plone to continue down the path of truly
> separating content and presentation, it makes sense to support
> configurable content views. An example of a content-type that mixes
> the two is the Smart Folder where you have fields that are only
> related to the presentation. We should support a way of separating
> such configuration options from the content objects."
>
> Please comment.

Sorry, I don't understand the problem as described and it's not clear  
whether this PLIP is proposing a specific solution.

Are Smart Folders (or Collections if you prefer) truly "content  
objects" or just a convenient way to create special purpose search  
queries?  I tend to think of Smart Folders as just another  
presentation layer.  Presentation for individual objects seems  
already fairly well separated via the alternate display views  
facility, which of course can also be applied to Smart Folders.

Can you explain the problem again and what specifically you are  
suggesting as an improvement?

Ric
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Malthe Borch | 2 Jul 2007 10:57
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Re: PLIP #188: Configurable content views

> Sorry, I don't understand the problem as described and it's not clear
> whether this PLIP is proposing a specific solution.

Let me try again.

I think it makes sense to talk about a view configuration. That is, a
number of options that control the way the view is rendered.

An example of such an option that applies to a listing or collection
of items is which fields should be displayed for each object.

For an image it could be which size (scale) that should be shown.

Static templates can solve the first example, but it will quickly get
out of hand. In general, they can't solve the second example, because
the actual configuration options will vary with the underlying object.

> Are Smart Folders (or Collections if you prefer) truly "content
> objects" or just a convenient way to create special purpose search
> queries?

I'm not sure, but I don't think it matters much in this question.
Either way the only information that should be stored on the object is
a means to represent the collection (besides any metadata).

\malthe

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Tim Hicks | 2 Jul 2007 11:20
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Re: More problems with ploneout on windows

Hanno Schlichting wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Tim Hicks wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm still having problems getting ploneout to work on Windows
>> (specifically, XP Home).  I can now get as far as executing
>> "bin\buildout.exe -v", but then get an error (see below).
>>
>> To rectify this problem, I have tried installing
>> <http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=fe6f2099-b7b4-4f47-a244-c96d69c35dec&displaylang=en>,
>> but that doesn't seem to have any effect.
>>
>> Anyone got any ideas on what's wrong here?
> 
> Did you follow the steps in WINDOWS.txt? Specifically installed MinGW
> and adjusted the distutils.cfg file?
> 
> It looks like distutils cannot find the right C compiler.

Hi Hanno,

Yeah, that was it.  I did actually edit distutils.cfg, but for some
reason ploneout ended up using a different python installation than the
one I made the edit for.  I have c:\Python24 and c:\Python244, with me
wanting the latter to be used, but the former getting picked up.  I
fixed things by manually editing bin/buildout-script.py to point at my
preferred python.
(Continue reading)

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Kai Diefenbach | 2 Jul 2007 12:31
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Re: PLIP #188: Configurable content views

Malthe Borch <mborch@...> wrote:

> New PLIP (draft): http://plone.org/products/plone/roadmap/188
> 
> Summary: "In order for Plone to continue down the path of truly
> separating content and presentation, it makes sense to support
> configurable content views. An example of a content-type that mixes
> the two is the Smart Folder where you have fields that are only
> related to the presentation. We should support a way of separating
> such configuration options from the content objects."
> 
> Please comment.

I like the idea. 

Shortly (as soon as the product is approved - *wink*) I'll publish the
first release of EasyShop. Within that I have selectors (which can be
used to select arbitrary products) and for your case more interesting:
formatters, which can be used to format the view on a shop resp.
categories. With the aid of these the user is able to decide how much
products should be displayed on one line and/or page, the size of the
image and so on.  This could be extended without the need to touch the
content objects.

If you have a login for plone.org you can find a screenshot (see first
portlet on the right side) in advance here:  

http://plone.org/products/easyshop/screenshot/image_view_fullscreen

Kai
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Martin Aspeli | 2 Jul 2007 19:19
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Re: PLIP #188: Configurable content views

Malthe Borch wrote:

> I'm not sure, but I don't think it matters much in this question.
> Either way the only information that should be stored on the object is
> a means to represent the collection (besides any metadata).

This is largely the case still (although we store the current selected 
view template as an option).

I don't think this is a particularly good PLIP. :)

  - it's not clear what problem it attempts to solve
  - it's not clear how it intends to solve that problem
  - it's not clear how this is different from existing options (the 
"display" menu, different actions resulting in different tabs) and so on

You'll need to be a lot more specific, I think.

Martin

--

-- 
Acquisition is a jealous mistress

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Daniel Nouri | 2 Jul 2007 22:06
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Re: Plone releases after 3.0

Hanno Schlichting wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I have heard several voices that did complain about a few different
> things with our roadmap beyond Plone 3.0 and would like to gather those
> complains, so we can see if they warrant to think about changing our
> roadmap.
> 
> I will not talk about Plone 3.0 as I think we are actually near a
> release candidate and all that remains is fixing some fifty to a hundred
> bugs in our bug tracker ;)
> 
> Now to be clear what I mean with roadmap. After the immensely painful
> release cycle of Plone 2.1 we realized that we need a more controlled
> process for doing releases and one release manager alone cannot shoulder
> that responsibility (big kudos to Stefan Holek for doing it
> nonetheless!). We agreed on a rough vision of doing one infrastructure
> orientated (x.5) and one user-interface orientated (x.0) release each
> year, so ending up with a release each six month. We also introduced a
> framework team which acts as an entry guard for new features both on a
> technical level as well as deciding if a new feature should be included
> in the core or are better left as add-ons.
> 
> In the process of doing both the 2.5 and 3.0 release we ended up having
> more of a nine month release cycle for 2.5 and meanwhile more than one
> year for 3.0 though.
> 
> So let me first state what I personally think have worked out quite well:
> 
> - We did a very good job of stabilizing our process. The feature set of
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Hanno Schlichting | 3 Jul 2007 00:08
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Re: Plone releases after 3.0

Hi.

Daniel Nouri wrote:
> Hanno Schlichting wrote:

[...]

>> - The framework team does a very good job of evaluating new features and
>> limiting the scope of a Plone release.
> 
> I'm not sure I agree.  I think the number one reason for the slow release
> cycles is that Plone 3 has /too many/ new features, many of which have a
> rather large impact.
> 
> Also, I think it's unfortunate that most of the improvements in Plone 3 are
> not based on actual Products out there that are tested and work for users
> (by which I mean both end users and "integrators").  They are often first
> time implementations, and what makes it worse, based on techniques that we
> didn't have the time to fully grasp yet, because we haven't been using them
> ourselves in the wild.

You raise a very valid point here. Plone 3.0 essentially has been a
feature-based and not time-based release. As we wanted to have certain
features included to strengthen the market position of Plone the
product, we agreed on including some features that weren't finished yet.
My feeling is that we included some features where the implementation
promised to be finished by the time the release would went out, but
which weren't ready at the time we evaluated them. Still I think we did
a good job of not introducing any feature that shouldn't be part of the
Plone core.
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Gmane