4) Build a continuous integration server using Seaside, Iliad or AidaWeb.  Build an interface to version control systems (possibly supporting both independent systems such as Monticello or file-based such as svn/CVS/git) that can be used from Smalltalk and integrate it with Smalllint code reports.  For a more ambitious project, the server should be able to start a new image, upgrade the package, run SUnit tests there and communicate back the results---the time to upgrade the package should be minimized of course!

5) Work on a cross-dialect foreign function call interface and implement it in at least two dialects.  Candidates include Alien and GNU Smalltalk's CObject (using existing implementation has the advantage of having to implement in only _one_ other dialect!).  Bonus points for implementing a C parser that would be able to construct bindings.  GNU Smalltalk already contains a C preprocessor implementation.

Mariano,

As Stephane mentionned, my proposal is quite close the a prexisting one related to parcel and fast code loading.
I would live we merge those two proposal in one better proposal. I don't like much duplication when resources is quite limited. Do you think it is possible?

Hilaire

2010/3/8 Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck <at> gmail.com>

Hi folks. We have been working hard with Janko and we built a website for the GSoC 2010 and for future editions!

The URL is  http://gsoc2010.esug.org/

In 4 days, is the deadline to submit ESUG as mentoring organization. For that purpose, there are several questions that we need to answer, as you can read here:
http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2010/faqs#org_app

This is the most important step. If we get selected, then we have project, and we will have to vote which projects to select and finally select students...but all that is ONLY if we are selected as mentoring organization. Last year Squeak wasn't so this year will be hard. We really appreciate any feedback you can give us so that we can achieve this goal. Basically we should demonstrate that we have a big community, with several interesting projects and with mentors and students that are willing to do it.

Our first version of those answer are here:
http://gsoc2010.esug.org/application.html

Please, send feedback.

The ideas page is necessary. For this, it would be cool to have several projects. With this we can show that the community is big. Of course, we cannot put projects that has no sense. But don't be shy to submit. We are ALL smalltalk dialects and even Newspeak. Right now there are 13 projects but I think there can be much more. In squeak 2007 there were like 20, and now we are all dialects together. Note that a project doesn't need to be cross dialect. You can propose a project that apply only to one dialect. 
I cannot take the time to write each proposal...so, if you have a project, right the title, description, technical details, benefits to the student and benefits to the community. Otherwise will be probably ignored.

It would be cool to have all mentors already selected for the 12th so that we can demonstrate that we are really willing to do it and that we already have mentors for all projects. Even more, it would be fantastic if there can be mentors or co-mentors.

As you can see in the ideas link, there are ideas that are not even complete. No text. Again...if someone want to do it, excellent. Otherwise, they will have to be removed.

Now...a personal question...do you think we have enough students to take care about the projects? what is your opinion ?

That's all for the moment...please, if you have questions, just ASK!!!

4 days.....

Cheers

Mariano

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--
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I know the deadline approaches, however- how does the community feel
about a project to implement a real demonstration system (along the
lines of defunct Sushi store)?

Presumably in Seaside, but whichever
framework the community/mentor/student decided on. With a nice
interface using (again presumptively) jQueryUI to give a pleasant
end-user experience.

Similarly implementing a persistence solution.

The idea is to present potential newcomers to Smalltalk with a viable
stack that could be picked up as is, to give a starting point for
developing web applications. Potentially they could simply make a
hosted copy, on the same server.

The idea would be that on the various examples page, you could access
an e-commerce site running a Smalltalk technology stack. Ideally
really selling something Smalltalk related, (proceeds to eg ESUG),
maybe also an Amazon affiliate page . If you liked it, you could copy
the whole project, change eg your Paypal details, change your
products, and be in business. (Obviously there are real world
considerations - this is the concept). And coders looking for examples
would see code that was fully completed, not onClick: (... some alert
saying you clicked but no real example of how to handle it, eg how to
transfer the order line details to the payments server).

I think it would do wonders for the take-up of Smalltalk.

If people like the idea in general, I'm happy to write up the brief. I
don't think i'm the right person for the mentor, but you know who you
are ;)

For the student, they would get experience in implementing the
application itself , as well as assembling the stack. They could be
the next Auctomatic founders.

Do people think it's useful for me to develop a proposal?

Cheers,   ..Stan

PS I realise that picking a component as part of the stack is fraught
with possibilities of offending supporters of an alternative project.
But more Smalltalkers overall means more potential users of each
project

On 6 March 2010 12:04, Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck <at> gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi smalltalkers. I have been asked to be the admin of GSoC 2010. The backup
> or second admin is Janko Mivšek. As you may know, Squeak has participated in
> GSoC 2007, 2008 but failed (not accepted) in 2009. We are not sure if we
> will succeed this year but we will try to do as much as possible.
>
> We think that one of the most important reasons why we failed in 2009 is
> that Google was looking for bigger communities that Squeak. This is why this
> year we all go under the ESUG umbrella. We present ESUG as the mentor
> organization and we cover ALL open-source Smalltalk dialects, not only
> Squeak. Pharo, Smalltalk/X, GNU Smalltalk, Cuis..they are all invited to
> participate. Also cross platform projects like Seaside, AidaWeb, Magma, etc
> are welcome.
>
> <forThoseWhoDoesntKnowWhatGSoCIs>
> It is a Google program that support (money) students to work on different
> open-source projects. Google doesn't talk or manage directly to the students
> but trough "Mentoring Organisations". Those organizations have to apply to
> GSoC. They have to give a lot of information, included a list of
> ideas/projects. Each project has a description and a mentor. Then the
> students apply for each project. If the organization gets selected by Google
> they will tell you how many "slots" they give. Suppose they give 5 but we
> have 20 projects....then we vote and the most voted projects win. The
> student has to do the project and the mentor has to help and guide him. The
> mentor receives 500 USD and the student 4500USD.
> For more information read: http://code.google.com/soc/
> </forThoseWhoDoesntKnowWhatGSoCIs>
>
> The most important thing is the deadlines we have. We started late so we are
> very near to the first deadline which is 12/03/2010 (less than one week).
> For that deadline we need to submit all the information of the mentor
> organization (answering several questions) and give the list of
> ideas/projects and the mentors of that.
>
> We have created a webpage (Thanks Janko!!) where we will put all the
> information. We will make this page public soon (we still need to review a
> couple of things).
> But for the moment we would REALLY appreciate if tell us your ideas. To do
> this, just answer to this email. Then we will collect the information and
> put in the website. For each idea you need:  a short title and a paragraph
> (for the moment) explaining the idea.
> After, we need that the people that are willing to be mentors start to apply
> as mentors...please, consider yourself being mentor. Sometimes it is not
> that difficult. I mean, don't be shy as sometimes being helpful, being aware
> of the dates, answering emails, etc is more important than the Smalltalk
> knoweldege. We can have a lot of ideas, but we need also mentors for that.
> We even would need a "substitute" for each mentor...
>
> Just as an example you can see the ideas of the previous years:
> 2007: http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/5936
> 2008: http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6031
> 2009: http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6120
>
> That's all for the moment.
>
> Cheers
>
> Mariano
>
>

> _______________________________________________
> seaside mailing list
> seaside <at> lists.squeakfoundation.org
> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
>
>

I am willing to co-mentor a Grease project and/or a portable TCPIP implementation (we will need this for the OpenSSL project anyway).

John

On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 2:54 AM, Paolo Bonzini <bonzini <at> gnu.org> wrote:

> We need to write a title, a little description and if possible titles like
> "technical details", "benefits to the students" and "benefits to the
> community".
>
> If you are interested please send it to me and I add it to the list.
>
> We also need a mentor (and a student, of course)...anyone is willing to do
> it ?

I'm willing to co-mentor it, depending on the focus of the project,
though I'd prefer the Grease projects more.

Just a note: our proposals are _ideas_.  A student will be able to
come up with something completely different, and we will have to find
a mentor and everything else.

Paolo

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--
John O'Keefe [|], Principal Smalltalk Architect, Instantiations Inc.

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> "...to show the rest of the world what kind of things can be done in Smalltalk nowadays"

Yes. I really hate strange situation, when people "likes" smalltalk. Sometimes they even make some cryptic tools for smalltalk. But, when some end-user application needed, they don't choose smalltalk for it. Even if they have a choice. Don't know about ESUG, but in RSUG (Russian Smalltalk Users Group) it's a common situation.

Generally, I hate the situation, when it's "cool" to make system tools, tools for developing, tools for tools for developing, fremeworks, sometimes really very cool and usefull...but somewhy it's "not cool" to use all this staff to make real applications to solve real problems. What all this cool stuff for then, huh?

> The idea is to present potential newcomers to Smalltalk with a viable stack that could be picked up as is, to give a
> starting point for developing web applications.

I working for SmallPOS (http://squeaksource.com/SmallPOS.html) project for some time. And it's very close to what you talking about. Even more, it tends to be real application, with real shop using it for trading. I made it opensource for exactly same reason - to show possibilities, to give an example can be used to learn, to give a starting point to not start new application from scratch and finally - fight this strange situation with rarely practical application of smalltalk.

> edit
> copy
> search
> display in list
> display in report
> a stuff or a list of stuff.

Yes, all this and lot of details. I trying to use Magritte+GLORP+Seaside+Scriptaculous enviroment. It was a good (and unexpectedly painfull) practical experience. So, you can find:
- generating of lists and tree-like lists from magritte descriptions
- list filters and list fast searches based on magritte descriports, too
- custom magritte descriptors, components and memento, custom magritte renderers and, generally, how to use Magritte descriptions for something new, not-yet-implemented
- using both full-generated, full-customized and _partially-customized_ (you don't touch component's structure, and you uses magrittes field editors, but you can fully control when they situated) web-forms
- using web-forms with table parts inside them
- nested editing (to add Order you need add person, to add person, you need to add City it lives at, to add a City you need to add a Country and so on)
- using GLORP with sometimes not-trivial mappings (not VERY untrivial I'm sorry)
- using (custom magritte) mementos to fight the absence of nested UnitOfWorks in GLORP, so nested editing becomes possible
- using AJAX to make interactive - and painless - webforms. You just added list of affected fields in metadescriptor of given field - and they will be updated via AJAX when form will be generated.
- using KomHttpServer to host files like icons and CSS-styles.

I beleive this list will be expanded 'till GSoC will begins. So, maybe it will help to solve problem

> The only thing I am concerned a bit is the scope of the project. It seems quite big.

Maybe using SmallPOS as a basis will make things easier and faster, and avoid some already-made efforts. Well, SmallPOS is not "web shop", it's POS, but it should be quite posible - and even not too hard - to convert it into webshop.  I especially tried to keep it as modular as possible. I want to try to use another persistence level and another GUI one day.

Another problem necessary to solve is: I try to keep code more or less clean, but due to time restrictins I can't totally avoid fast dirty tricks. I just trying to mark them for future fixes :)

Next, I absolutely do not worried about internationalisation. Taking into account SmallPOS practically (maybe even totally) have no hardcoded labels (they all comes from magritte descriptors or from domain-specific webforms) it's not a conceptual problem, but it makes fast education virtually impossible for non-russians.

Finaly, PayPal prohibits receiving money for russian users, so I can't make a paypal connector for e-business...I just can't test it ;)

So there are still a lot of work for a student, but, utilising ready results it may make things much easier - or, as an option, it make possible to reach much more shining results with great efforts ;)


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