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Ehmke, Marco | 6 Aug 2004 11:27

Combination of DotNetNuke and Maverick.NET ???


Hi all,

because of the known problem, to create output in different formats (pdf,
xls, xml ...) I searched for a reasonable way to do that with one
solution/product, control or what else !!!
For my DotNetNuke portal and for other ASP.NET solutions too....

So I've found some information about a framework called MAVERICK which can
be used for web publishing: Link: http://mavnet.sourceforge.net/

Cit.:
"Maverick.NET is a .NET port of Maverick, a Model-View-Controller (aka
"Model 2") framework for web publishing. It is a minimalist framework which
focuses solely on MVC logic, allowing you to generate presentation using a
variety of templating and transformation technologies."

My question:
Does it really make sense to combine DotNetNuke and Maverick?? I would be
glad for some feedback if somebody knows Maverick AND DotNetNuke or is
interested in.

Thanks and best regards,

Marco

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Ehmke, Marco | 6 Aug 2004 11:35

II. Combination of DotNetNuke and Maverick.NET ???

Hi all,

please ignore the last posting ;-)
Wrong text for this forum, sorry.....

Now the correct posting:

because of the known problem, to create output in different formats (pdf,
xls, xml ...) I searched for a reasonable way to do that with one
solution/product, control or what else !!!
For my DotNetNuke portal and for other ASP.NET solutions too...
http://dotnetnuke.com/

DotNetNuke is an "Open Source" Portal and I would be interessted to combine
it with Maverick ... This could be really interessted...

But ....  does it really make sense to combine DotNetNuke and Maverick?? I
would be glad for some feedback if somebody knows Maverick AND DotNetNuke or
is interested in. Does somebody have experiences oder ... ???

Thanks and best regards,

Marco

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jim moore | 6 Aug 2004 11:55

RE: II. Combination of DotNetNuke and Maverick.NET ???

Hi Marco,

Glad you found Maverick.net. I'm really striving to keep Maverick.net
consistent with the java version of maverick, so I don't really want to
change the core of it too much. That said, Maverick.net is fairly extensible
through its view and transform plugin interfaces and we always welcome
custom view and transformation implementations. So if it makes sense to add
some view or transform types to integrate dotnetnuke, please send them on
and we will add them. 

I'm not that familiar with dotnetnuke--though I've poked around a bit on
your site since your post... Anyway, one thing you may be interested in is:

http://azaclauson.com/Maverick/IBuySpy/

Aaron Clauson did a pretty great job of porting/rebuilding IBuySpy with
maverick.net, so that may be a good starting point for an integrated
maverick.net/donetnuke project.

And Aaron, if you are reading this... one thing we might consider is adding
your IBuySpy port to maverick.net's cvs as a reference app (similar to PIG
in the java version of mav...) I'd be glad to grant you cvs commit access if
you would like to add it. Or maybe you and marco want to join forces and
build out dotnetnuke as a maverick.net reference app.

Anyway, just a couple of ideas, any thought?

--jim

> -----Original Message-----
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Ehmke, Marco | 6 Aug 2004 13:16

AW: II. Combination of DotNetNuke and Maverick.NET ???


Hi Jim,

thanks for your infos ...

But first ... : I really don't know if it make sense to combine DotNetNuke
and Maverick.NET, that's what I want to find out ... 
I've started with DotNetNuke some weeks ago, as basis of developing ASP.NET
applications ..
But currently I have the problem that most customers want different output
formats like PDF, Excel ... I know there are al lot of controls to buy, but
this was the moment I've found Maverick and now I'm try to find a way to
combine both (if it make sense an if there is a way) 

Perhaps some additional infos around DotNetNuke and IBuySpy for all who
don't know it:

Following lines are part of DotNetNuke Manifest and should give a small
overview:
'-------------------------------------
As a reference implementation, the IBuySpy Portal Solution Toolkit released
by Microsoft in January 2002 has been highly regarded as a "best practice"
framework for constructing ASP.NET applications. However, as time goes by,
its main limitation lies in the fact that the original code base is
completely static.

DotNetNuke is a Visual Basic.NET hybrid of the original IBuySpy Portal
Solution Toolkit. It contains a wide variety of architectural and feature
enhancements over the original IBS Portal and was released in December 2002
as an Open Source implementation. DotNetNuke was built with the idea of
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jim moore | 6 Aug 2004 13:35

RE: II. Combination of DotNetNuke and Maverick.NET ???

Hi Marco,

I think I understand better now...

Maverick.net will definitely give you lots of transformation options--that
is one of its primary strengths. The thing is, you will have to find a way
to get your content into maverick's transformation pipeline... Up to now,
maverick has been designed to generate content and then push it out to a
variety of output (view and transform) plugins.  It sounds like you need to
be to be an input plugin to maverick. We may be able to accommodate this by
providing Icontroller/IConrollerFactory interfaces. (Controllers are
basically the data generation portion of maverick, while views and
transformations are data manipulation layers.) The built in maverick
controller would be the standard controller, but it could be overridden by a
custom implementation, ala DotNetNukeController or something. I think there
has been some talk on the java mav list about pluggable controllers, so I'm
not too opposed to this idea.

Perhaps an easier step for you though (since it only sounds like you need
the transformation functionality of maverick.net) would be to simply use
maverick.net's existing view and transformation pieces. You should be able
to simply instantiate the view and transformation classes yourself and pump
your streams through them...

--jim

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mavnet-user-admin <at> lists.sourceforge.net 
> [mailto:mavnet-user-admin <at> lists.sourceforge.net] On Behalf Of 
> Ehmke, Marco
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Ehmke, Marco | 6 Aug 2004 13:52

AW: II. Combination of DotNetNuke and Maverick.NET ???


Hi Jim,

thanks for your advice. 
To use maverick.net's existing view and transformation pieces could be my
first step in this environment ;-)
I think there are a lot of further possibilities, how I can use
maverick.net, but somewhere I have to start *g*

I'm back again in two weeks and then I will try to use the view and
transformation classes .. resp. will make some practical tests around
maverick.net and DotNetNuke.
I will give feedback if I've found out more about the possibilities to
combine the product resp. the problems I've got ...

Best regards,

Marco

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: mavnet-user-admin <at> lists.sourceforge.net
[mailto:mavnet-user-admin <at> lists.sourceforge.net] 
Gesendet: Freitag, 6. August 2004 13:35
An: mavnet-user <at> lists.sourceforge.net
Betreff: RE: [Mavnet-user] II. Combination of DotNetNuke and Maverick.NET
???

Hi Marco,

I think I understand better now...
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Brandon Knitter | 6 Aug 2004 23:46

Maverick Getting In The Way

Hi all!  I want to start by saying thanks for a great port of a great product. 
Coming from Struts/Java this made my life quite easier and more consistent with
what I was used to.

We are using mavnet for our main production website at work, and we started
using it for our internal tools as well.  Unfortunately we found that the
internal tools (which we want to use postbacks and such) have to be hacked to
use some of the basic controls built into ASP.Net.  We had to inject some of our
own javascript to make the postback work properly, and, well, it's a hack.
(insert chisel sounds here)

We're been considering moving away from mavnet and just to standard ASP.Net so
that we could benefit from all the built in controls for editing and such. 
Since it's an internal product, we're less concerned with the look/feel/flow and
more interested in getting an administration interface up and running as fast as
possible.

Since we're think about getting rid of mavnet on one of our sites, I felt that
we should first pose this as a discussion point on the mavnet list before
hastily removing it.

Please let me know your thoughts, comments, suggestions, case studioes, stories
and places to find free beer! :)

Thanks!

--

-- 
-bk

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Aaron Clauson | 7 Aug 2004 08:42
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Re: RE: II. Combination of DotNetNuke and Maverick.NET ???

Hi Marco and Jim,

Apologies for the length.

My opinion on all ASP.Net/Web/Portal applications is
that they should be written such that the server side
application conforms to the MVC pattern. 

The primary reason for this opinion is that the
information needs to be seperated from the way it is
presented. More specifically web programmers need to
produce XML give it to the designers who transform it
into HTML, XHTML, WML, Excel spreadsheets etc. etc.
Even if the programmer and the designer are the same
separating the tasks in this way can make maintenance
and enhancements magnitudes of degrees easier. Plus if
someone writes a portal app, such as DotNetNuke,
conforming to the MVC pattern the XSL transforms,
which are often the most time consuming pieces, are
platform independent and only the controllers need to
be ported. At the moment everyone writes their apps in
PHP or Java or whatever, meaning you have to port the
whole shebang not just the controllers.

A secondary, although still important for me, reason
to use the MVC pattern is that I religiously avoid
using scripting languages in any non-prototype web
application. The way I use Maverick always involves
using a controller stage to produce an XML model. The
view stage always uses and XSL transform to present
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Aaron Clauson | 7 Aug 2004 09:01
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Re: Maverick Getting In The Way (Brandon Knitter)

Hi Brandon,

I guess the goal with any app is to get it up and
running as quickly as possible while at the same time
realising that if it ever gets to production you
typically get the 20% initial effort / 80% maintenance
scenario. So my first point would be that MVC and
Maverick would make life a lot easier in the future;
Maverick.Net can allow you to produce a much cleaner
code base than the one a typical ASP.Net app does. As
far as initial effort goes my own experience with
Maverick.Net and ASP.Net apps is that they take
roughly the same time to write. 

All that being said if the ASP.Net server controls
really do fulfill the goals of your app then of course
it would make sense to use them; are you sure they do
though, none of the ones I have come across were much
good? If they do meet your needs my opinion is that
you are better of not using Maverick.Net or indeed any
server side MVC approach. ASP.Net controls are a page
controller pattern while Maverick.Net is a front
controller pattern. While you can make them work
together my own conclusions were that such a
combination is fragile at best,
azaclauson.com/Maverick/models/theMavAspQuandary.htm.

hth
Aaron Clauson
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