On 05/06/10 07:28, B. Kip wrote:
On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 1:28 PM, Pablo Martin <caedes <at> sindominio.net>
I think one important point in how this evolves is data control. One
can view the movement toward openness and interoperability as
inevitable because tools that can do this will be more useful than
tools that don't. But on the other hand what are the dynamics involved
in a change toward user control of data?
I completely agree with this view of decentralization... there is no way
On 28/05/10 22:16, Nathan wrote:
> Miron Cuperman wrote:
> AFAICT, this isn't really a flash in the pan thing, a miss it and
> you've messed up scenario - this is the ground work for the next
> generation of the web - pretty much an unstoppable movement.
to stop it and not so much need to go fast, although all the better if
it does :)
the same standards and formats that work for federation and
interoperability of networks on public servers can allow you to
download your data into your computer directly much like you do with
pop3 and email (but a lot better). in the way in and out you can
de/encrypt the data.
How can you evolve toward users owning their profile when
it is currently in another's hands?
Obviously if that other doesn't want to interoperate, there is only one
way, crawling the data out and suicide: go somewhere else there will be
plenty of places for your data to be safe (because we are all working
on this aren't we).
Is the only way to achieve user control of data to
create a whole new system from scratch and jump over to it?
No, you can also do it incrementaly with existing systems and just some
formats to allow the users to get the data in and out of the different
Make current services and web softwares more respectful with the user:
the service MUST allow (and help) the user to encrypt, get the data
out, get the data back in, leave, etc. Most services don't do this, and
are thus designed to lock in the users. We can solve this situation
with a bit of love.
A new network could be open and interoperable with all
compatible applications and services, but would it be able to interact
with those that asserted control over others' data or made private data
You can always interact because we have the code, and *the code don't
obey the system*
Anyways, I think one thing is interoperability, and another is what you
do with the data you have or who claims ownership or lock-in. A bit
like gmail has control of peoples data, but I can interact with another
email where I control the data. I trade off my privacy of course,
unless I use an additional layer of encryption, but I can interact.
Some people's idea of the open social network is linking together of
all the social networks out there. But how does it work if I host my
profile on my own server and encrypt all my data if I want to connect
with someone on Facebook and Facebook insists that my information is
unencrypted and public? (assuming they 'opened' to the point where I
could connect to a Facebook user from outside of Facebook.)
Only the ones who want to talk have to talk, I think when your friends
host their data under the eyes of mordor you can only encrypt or let
go. Also, I don't think you encrypt the data in your own system, if
it's your system you will just encrypt the hard drive if you care, you
encrypt when you put the data "out there".
I'm just wondering how such an ecosystem can function (seriously
wondering, not assuming it can't), and if not, what that means for the
development of an open network. I want a network where I can say
exactly by whom every item I create can be seen. If we want to have
such a network can we evolve towards it, or will it require scrapping
the currently used model and shifting over in one stroke?
I don't think it requires scrapping the current model. As i see it,
public data, private data, group data, can coexist in the systems we
have now and you will want your information in a different ways
depending on the situation... its a lot of grades between something
only you can read and something totally public and your information
must be able to go where you want when you want.