Zoffix Znet | 1 May 03:09 2007

Re: CSS Opacity


On Sun, 2007-04-29 at 12:17 +0200, Pascal Germroth wrote:

> Maybe values > 1 should be allowed for opacity? For example:
> 
> #photo { opacity : 2; }
> 
> Would mean that the element, whose pixels have an "effective" opacity of
> 0.5 would have the "effective" opacity of its pixels doubled, to 1.0,
> meaning they are rendered with double opacity, which is then halved by
> the body element and appears thus just plain opaque to the viewer.
> 
> I don't know if this could be implemented as graphics libraries often
> "clamp" the colour values to [0;1]...
> 
> 

Hm, I was more thinking of the opacity being like this:

<div id="parent">
	<div id="child">
	</div>
</div>

#parent { opacity: .5; }

#child { opacity: 1;}

Now, everything is rendered according to the way `opacity` works right
now. The exception will be that since #child has `opacity` set too, it
(Continue reading)

David Hyatt | 1 May 03:15 2007
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Re: CSS Opacity


The definition of this property can't be changed (for Apple at  
least), since we've shipped it with the real name.

dave
(hyatt <at> apple.com)

On Apr 30, 2007, at 6:09 PM, Zoffix Znet wrote:

>
> On Sun, 2007-04-29 at 12:17 +0200, Pascal Germroth wrote:
>
>> Maybe values > 1 should be allowed for opacity? For example:
>>
>> #photo { opacity : 2; }
>>
>> Would mean that the element, whose pixels have an "effective"  
>> opacity of
>> 0.5 would have the "effective" opacity of its pixels doubled, to 1.0,
>> meaning they are rendered with double opacity, which is then  
>> halved by
>> the body element and appears thus just plain opaque to the viewer.
>>
>> I don't know if this could be implemented as graphics libraries often
>> "clamp" the colour values to [0;1]...
>>
>>
>
> Hm, I was more thinking of the opacity being like this:
>
(Continue reading)

Sergey Ignatchenko | 1 May 14:25 2007

Re: CSS Generated content selection


Boris Zbarsky wrote:
>
> Sergey Ignatchenko wrote:
>> Depends on implementation of paste; if when pasting to HTML, pasting 
>> agent will override all properties (or all properties which are not 
>> consistent with the place in the document where paste takes place)
>
> That's impossible to do for generated content in CSS 2.1.
As soon as something can be rendered, it can be represented as HTML+CSS 
(more or less precisely); yes, it might lead to generated content 
becoming non-generated after conversion, but as a user I see it _much_ 
less evil than complete disappearing of generated content.

Let's consider very simple case: copy-paste of ordered list into plain 
text; as a user, I see disappearing numbering as completely 
unacceptable. If there are doubts about common perception of this 
problem among end-users, I would suggest to conduct a survey (after all, 
it is programs that should be made to meet people expectations, not vice 
versa).

Sergey Ignatchenko
>
> -Boris
>
>

Daniel Barclay | 1 May 18:57 2007

[CSS21] spec. ambiguity?, error? - 10.1 containing block


In the current CSS 2.1 draft rooted at
http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/WD-CSS21-20061106 , section 10.1 says:

     ... the top and left of the containing block are the top and left
     padding edges of the first box generated by the ancestor, and the
     bottom and right are the bottom and right padding edges of the last
     box of the ancestor.

The wording "box generated by the ancestor" might be ambiguous.

It seems to be unclear whether that means:

1. any boxes generated directly by the ancestor, regardless of whether
    they were generated for the ancestor itself or were generated because
    of descendants (similar to the way line boxes are effectively
    generated by a block-level ancestor because of descendent inline-level
    elements, although that particular case doesn't apply here),
2. only boxes generated directly by the ancestor for the ancestor itself,
    or, possibly,
3. any boxes generated, whether directly or indirectly, by the ancestor
    (e.g., including boxes generated by descendants).

Daniel

Boris Zbarsky | 1 May 19:19 2007
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Re: CSS Generated content selection


Sergey Ignatchenko wrote:
> Let's consider very simple case: copy-paste of ordered list into plain 
> text

That's a totally different situation.  We were talking about paste into HTML. 
For paste into plaintext, one might indeed want to put in the generated content. 
  But let's continue with your example, except in the original context of my 
comments (paste into HTML).

> as a user, I see disappearing numbering as completely 
> unacceptable.

As a user, I see doubling of all the numbers as completely unacceptable.

-Boris

Sergey Ignatchenko | 2 May 15:38 2007

Re: CSS Generated content selection


Boris Zbarsky wrote:
>
> Sergey Ignatchenko wrote:
>> Let's consider very simple case: copy-paste of ordered list into 
>> plain text
>
> That's a totally different situation.  We were talking about paste 
> into HTML. For paste into plaintext, one might indeed want to put in 
> the generated content. 
You said so :-). What about paste from HTML into MSWord / RTF / ...?
> But let's continue with your example, except in the original context 
> of my comments (paste into HTML).
Hm. Let's consider user who tries copy-paste from web page into his HTML 
e-mail (and obviously CSS's are as different as one can imagine). I'd 
say that intuitively user would expect ordered list to remain ordered 
list, but preserving as much styling from original page as possible 
(among other things, roman numerals should remain roman numerals); any 
objections?

>
>> as a user, I see disappearing numbering as completely unacceptable.
>
> As a user, I see doubling of all the numbers as completely unacceptable.
No objections :-). BTW, your note goes inline with an idea of WYSIWIG 
copy-paste.

Sergey

>
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Daniel Barclay | 2 May 17:10 2007

Inline formatting document model - misleading/wrong equalities?


The "Inline formatting model" at http://meyerweb.com/eric/css/inline-format.html
starts out by saying:

     * em-box = font-size = content-area

That seems to have several problems:

1.  The font size is a one-dimensional quantity.  The content area is
     two dimensional (whether you mean the content-area box or the
     area of the content-area box).

     Shouldn't the last term be something like "content-area height"?

2.  Similarly, isn't the em-box a two-dimensional item, and shouldn't
     the first term be "em-box height" (or just "em")?

     (I'm assuming that "em-box" refers to a 1-em by 1-em square.  If
     "em-box" really refers to just the linear distance of 1 em, then
     never mind.)

3.  Shouldn't it specify that it's talking about the content areas
     of inline boxes or line boxes only, and not that content areas of
     block boxes?

     (Yes, the document's scope is limited to the inline formatting
     model, but doesn't that model involve the block boxes into which
     line boxes are places (and whose height is affected by the
     inline formatting)?)

(Continue reading)

Boris Zbarsky | 2 May 18:47 2007
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Re: CSS Generated content selection


Sergey Ignatchenko wrote:
> Hm. Let's consider user who tries copy-paste from web page into his HTML 
> e-mail (and obviously CSS's are as different as one can imagine). I'd 
> say that intuitively user would expect ordered list to remain ordered 
> list, but preserving as much styling from original page as possible 
> (among other things, roman numerals should remain roman numerals); any 
> objections?

Nope.  At the same time, a user who tries copy-paste from a web page into the 
same web page should also get the same effect (things look just like they did). 
  This is what makes life hard with general generated content... because the 
entity providing the clipboard data has no idea where it will get pasted.

> No objections :-). BTW, your note goes inline with an idea of WYSIWIG 
> copy-paste.

I agree that that's ideal; I just haven't figured out how to do it yet.  :)

-Boris

Grant, Melinda | 4 May 05:46 2007
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RE: [CSS3 Page] Comments on CSS3 Paged Media (I)


Hi fantasai,

Thanks much for the detailed review.  Responses intercalated below.

Best wishes,

Melinda

> -----Original Message-----
> From: fantasai [mailto:fantasai.lists <at> inkedblade.net]
> Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 5:05 PM
> To: www-style <at> w3.org; Grant, Melinda
> Subject: [CSS3 Page] Comments on CSS3 Paged Media (I)
> 
> Introduction
> ------------
> 
>    # A signature is a group of pages printed on a sheet, which,
>    # when folded and trimmed like a book, appear in their proper
>    # sequence;
> 
>    "signature" should be in <dfn>

OK

> Page Boxes: the  <at> page Rule
> --------------------------
> 
>    # The properties of a page box are determined by properties
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Bert Bos | 4 May 18:00 2007
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[css3-gcpm] New draft for Generated Content for Paged Media


The CSS WG just published a new Working Draft of Generated Content for 
Paged Media:

    http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/WD-css3-gcpm-20070504/

Some parts seem to be relatively stable (target-counter, hyphenation 
properties, running header/footers...), but many others have not had a 
lot of discussion yet.

Some of the new proposals since the previous draft include sidenotes, 
character substitutions, more control over floats in paged media and 
image resolution overrides. The names and values of the hyphenation 
properties have changed.

Named flows are yet another proposal for visual reordering of content 
(as is currently done with absolute positioning or floats). It should 
be compared with Advanced Layout[1] and there are more proposals 
coming.

As usual, please send comments to this mailing list, <www-style <at> w3.org>, 
with a subject starting with [css3-gcpm] (as I did on this message).

[1] http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-layout/

For the CSS WG,
Bert
--

-- 
  Bert Bos                                ( W 3 C ) http://www.w3.org/
  http://www.w3.org/people/bos                               W3C/ERCIM
(Continue reading)


Gmane