Goldeen Bell | 4 Nov 2004 07:23
Favicon

Re: [VM] Natasha and Alan

Thomas

I am something of a stand-in for the experience of the medical community.  There are several relevant  groups to point at although I am not in a position to write a definitive paper on any of them:

SNOMED-CT (and its ancestor in the UK Clinical Terms) - the officially mandated terminology

HL7 (the main healthcare information standards body) Vocabulary group which manages a variety of terminologies.

The National Cancer Institute's Metathesaurus

The Unified Medical Language system

The Gene Ontology and the Open Bio Ontologies (OBO) group more generally.

In all these cases the interest would be in the principles, issues and use cases encountered, e.g. tracking versions, handling of retired terms, handling of splitting and joining terms, when a change of a label indicates a new concept, etc.  None of them use URIs as identifiers.  HL7 uses OIDs, SNOMED has its own system of 64 bit - or perhaps now more - identifiers partitioned up so as to allow a name-space like construct.  All make a sharp separation between 'concept' and 'term', and use separate 'nonsemantic' identifiers for each.   All use "pre-web" technology.

The other work in the medical area which may have an impact in this area is Mayo Clinic's work on the terminology services engine, CTS.    The best thing on that is to contact Harold Solbrig directly whom I am copying on this email.

SNOMED had  several papers on their updating procedure that used to be on their web site during development, but they seem to have disappeared.  I can see if I can retrieve any of them, although they may be considered commercial confidential.

The strongest line in the medical community - because group after group has had to rediscover it or at least rediscover that the community was right - is to separate the "concept" and "term" and to use "meaningless" identifiers of some sort which are not subject to problems of arguments over spelling, differences in usage between communities, etc.   Also never, ever, to re-use an identifier.

I am not quite sure how this translates into the Semantic Web world.  The rdf:label property is a relatively weak mechanism, e.g. as far as I know  it is just string valued and there is no inverse, so that the notion of going from label to concept isn't really supported, nor any notion of labels in their own right.  There is also no obvious notion of "preferred term" - something the medical community has found essential as soon as you start to allow multiple labels.  Potentially the language field could be used for this purpose, but this really needs testing against the use cases.

The classic paper, although way pre-web is Cimino's Desiderata paper Methods of Information in Medicine37(4-5): pp. 394-403. Some of the issues are clearly parochial to medicine, but others seem entirely general.

Regards

Alan

Thomas Baker wrote:

> Natasha, Alan,
>
> On the basis of previous discussion of the VM draft, it
> was clear to me exactly what role you would want to have in
> the paper.
>
> Note that in its current form, the draft is set up to cite
> practices from a handful of example vocabularies (FOAF, Dublin
> Core, SKOS, etc) to illustrate some general principles.
>
> I was wondering whether, between the two of you, there is
> a major vocabulary in medicine or the life sciences about
> which you would be willing to provide some explanatory text
> and references (with regard to use of URI references, formal
> schemas, etc).  Having one really large-scale, tightly designed
> ontology would be perfect to round out the set of examples.
>
> Any other ideas most welcome.
>
> Thank you,
> Tom
>
> >      -- A major medical or life-sciences vocabulary?
> >         TASK: Alan or Natasha - An example of a large-scale ontology?
> >            Do we perhaps need another major example?  It would
> >            be good to have a "large-scale" vocabulary of the
> >            "ontology" sort, preferably with some well-defined
> >            maintenance and versioning policies...
>
> --
> Dr. Thomas Baker                        Thomas.Baker <at> izb.fraunhofer.de
> Institutszentrum Schloss Birlinghoven         mobile +49-160-9664-2129
> Fraunhofer-Gesellschaft                          work +49-30-8109-9027
> 53754 Sankt Augustin, Germany                    fax +49-2241-144-2352
> Personal email: thbaker79 <at> alumni.amherst.edu

--
Alan L Rector
Professor of Medical Informatics
Department of Computer Science
University of Manchester
Manchester M13 9PL, UK
TEL: +44-161-275-6188/6149/7183
FAX: +44-161-275-6236/6204
Room: 2.88a, Kilburn Building
email: rector <at> cs.man.ac.uk
web: www.cs.man.ac.uk/mig
        www.opengalen.org
        www.clinical-escience.org
        www.co-ode.org

-- --

___________________________________________________________
Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com
http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup

Oscar Omar Avila | 4 Nov 2004 07:50
Picon

Re: Validate 2 fieds!

Greetings, you've already had some answers to your question but I'd like
to suggest that you consider the following approach:

<f:instance>
        <data>
                <pair>
                        <a>5</a>
                        <b>10</b>
                </pair>
        </data>
</f:instance>

<f:bind nodeset="/data/pair" constraint="/data/pair/a &lt; /data/pair/b"/>
<f:bind nodeset="/data/pair/a" type="xsd:integer"/>
<f:bind nodeset="/data/pair/b" type="xsd:integer"/>

<f:group ref="/data/pair">
        <f:label>pair: </f:label>

        <f:input ref="/data/pair/a">
            <f:label>a: </f:label>
        </f:input>

        <f:input ref="/data/pair/b">
            <f:label>b: </f:label>
        </f:input>

</f:group>

This has the benefit from a users point of view that if the user wants to
change a and b to be 12 & 17 the intermediate state of a(12) and b(10)
will indicate that the value of a is invalid but it will indicate that
there is a problem with the pair.

Regards, Roland



"Vo, Thanh Chi" <ThanhVo <at> psv.com.vn>
Sent by: www-forms-request <at> w3.org
26/10/2004 07:16

To
"'www-forms <at> w3.org'" ,<www-forms <at> w3.org>
cc

Subject
Validate 2 fieds!.






Hi all,
Could you tell me how to make a validation like that:
value A < value B.
By schema I've just make value A, value B in a fix range( such as 0..255)
And by schema could we make a constrain like that( value A < value B).
 

-- --

_______________________________________________
Find what you are looking for with the Lycos Yellow Pages

Swing Dickey | 4 Nov 2004 09:10
Favicon

XSL

The submission note for XSL,
http://www.w3.org/TR/NOTE-XSL/
seems to have disappeared.

It was quoted in a reference to the background of the rec.

Has it be located elsewhere or removed please?


Regards DaveP.
AC RNIB.
**** snip here *****

--
DISCLAIMER:

NOTICE: The information contained in this email and any attachments is
confidential and may be privileged.  If you are not the intended
recipient you should not use, disclose, distribute or copy any of the
content of it or of any attachment; you are requested to notify the
sender immediately of your receipt of the email and then to delete it
and any attachments from your system.

RNIB endeavours to ensure that emails and any attachments generated by
its staff are free from viruses or other contaminants.  However, it
cannot accept any responsibility for any  such which are transmitted.
We therefore recommend you scan all attachments.

Please note that the statements and views expressed in this email and
any attachments are those of the author and do not necessarily represent
those of RNIB.

RNIB Registered Charity Number: 226227



-- --

___________________________________________________________
Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com
http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup

Famous Jefferson | 11 Nov 2004 08:26
Favicon

Affymetrix W3C position paper

Here's the position paper from Steve Chervitz et al. Can the agenda for this
workshop be updated to
include a link to it?

Thanks,
Steve

------ Forwarded Message
From: <Chervitz>, Steve <Steve_Chervitz <at> affymetrix.com>
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 11:40:22 -0700
To: John Wilbanks <wilbanks <at> w3.org>
Cc: Alan Aronson <alan <at> nlm.nih.gov>
Subject: Affymetrix W3C position paper

John,

Here it is. I apologize for the lateness. See you tomorrow.

Steve

--
Steve Chervitz | Bioinformatics Engineer | Software Development
AFFYMETRIX, INC. | 6550 Vallejo St., Ste 100 | Emeryville, CA 94608
Tel: 510-428-8530 | Fax: 510-428-8585 | Steve_Chervitz at affymetrix-dot-com




------ End of Forwarded Message

-- --

___________________________________________________________
Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com
http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup

Garfield Green | 16 Nov 2004 00:53
Picon

WS-Reliability specification submitted for OASIS Standard

OASIS members:

The OASIS Web Services Reliable Messaging (WSRM) TC has submitted the
WS-Reliability v1.1 specification, which is an approved Committee Draft,
for review and consideration for approval by OASIS members to become an
OASIS Standard. The TC's submission is attached below.

In accordance with the OASIS Technical Committee Process, the
specification has already gone through a 30 day public review period.
OASIS members now have until the 15th of the month to familiarize
themselves with the submission. OASIS members should give their input on
this question to the voting representative of their organization.

By the 16th of the month I will send out a Call For Vote to the voting
representatives of the OASIS member organizations, who will have until
the end of the month to cast their ballots on whether this Committee
Draft should be approved as an OASIS Standard.


-Karl

=================================================================
Karl F. Best
Vice President, OASIS
office  +1 978.667.5115 x206     mobile +1 978.761.1648
karl.best <at> oasis-open.org   



1. A formal specification that is a valid member of its type, together
with appropriate documentation for the specification, both of which must
be written using approved OASIS templates;


contains the following five files:

     WS-Reliability-CD1.086.pdf   WS-Reliability version 1.1, CD 1.086
     ws-reliability-1.1.xsd       Ws-Reliability schema
     reference-1.1.xsd            Reference type schema
     fnp-1.1.xsd                  Features and Properties schema
     wsrmfp-1.1.xsd               wsrm features and properties schema


2. A clear English-language summary of the specification;

The WS-Reliabilty specification, version 1.1, specifies a
transport-independent, SOAP based protocol for the reliable delivery of
messages. Reliable message delivery may be critical to some applications
using Web Services.

SOAP over HTTP [RFC2616] is not sufficient when an application-level
messaging protocol must also guarantee some level of reliability and
security. This specification defines reliability in the context of
current Web Services standards.

The WS Reliability specification provides the following reliability
features:

- Guaranteed message delivery, or At-Least-Once delivery semantics.
- Guaranteed message duplicate elimination, or "At-Most-Once" delivery
semantics.
- Guaranteed message delivery and duplicate elimination, or
"Exactly-Once" delivery semantics.
- Guaranteed message ordering for delivery within a group of
(sequential) messages.

The WS-Reliabilty specification uses SOAP 1.1 or 1.2 Part 1. It may be
used with other transport protocols/bindings besides HTTP.


3. A statement regarding the relationship of this specification to
similar work of other OASIS TCs or other standards developing organizations;

This specification has been designed to be used in combination with
other complementary protocols, and has built upon previous experiences
from the ebXML Message Service [ebMS].)  Both WS-Reliability and ebMS
have same messaging reliability contracts as objectives: guaranteed
delivery, no duplicate delivery, ordered delivery, and combinations of
these.

However, WS-Reliability has improved on scalability and performance by
generalizing the use of sequence numbers, and can accommodate different
security and access conditions on each party, as this is more frequently
the case with a Web service and its clients, compared to more
symmetrical access conditions in messaging. The reliability contract is
more "application-oriented" in WS-R, where acknowledgment is on final
delivery, in contrast to "on receipt" by the message handler in ebMS.


4. Certification by at least three OASIS member organizations that they
are successfully using the specification consistently with the OASIS IPR
Policy;

The chair has received statements from the following TC member
organizations.



5. An account of each of the comments/issues raised during the public
review period, along with its resolution;




6. An account of and results of the voting to approve the approve the
specification as a Committee Draft;

Account of a TC roll call vote at teleconf on August 24, 2004

Name                   Company                Vote for CD 1.086
---------------        -------------------    ------------------
Joseph Chiusano        Booz Allen Hamilton    y
Jeff Turpin            Cyclone Commerce       y
Jacques Durand         Fujitsu                y
Kazunori Iwasa         Fujitsu                Not present
Tom Rutt               Fujitsu                y
Jishnu Mukerji         Hewlett-Packard        Not present
Robert Freund          Hitachi                y
Eisaku Nishiyama       Hitachi                y
Nobuyuki Yamamoto      Hitachi                Not present
Junichi Tatemura       NEC Corporation        y
Alan Weissberger       NEC Corporation        y
Abbie Barbir           Nortel Networks        y
Mark Peel              Novell                 y
Sunil Kunisetty        Oracle                 y
Jeff Mischkinsky       Oracle                 Not present
Pete Wenzel            SeeBeyond              y
Doug Bunting           Sun Microsystems       y
Tony Graham            Sun Microsystems       y
Chi-Yuen Ng            Univ of Hong Kong      y

15 yes, 0 no, 0 abstain, 4 not present
78% of eligible voting members voted yes
0% of eligible voting members voted no
0% of eligible voting members abstained


7. An account of or pointer to votes and comments received in any
earlier attempts to standardize substantially the same specification,
together with the originating TC's response to each comment;

This specification has not been previously submitted to OASIS.


8. A pointer to the publicly visible comments archive for the
originating TC;




9. A statement from the chair of the TC certifying that all members of
the TC have been provided with a copy of the OASIS IPR Policy;

The TC chair certifies that all members have been reminded to read the
IPR statement on numerous occasions and also in an e-mail “Call for IPR
disclosure regarding ws-Reliability spec”


10. Optionally, a pointer to any minority reports submitted by one or
more TC members who did not vote in favor of approving the Committee
Draft, or certification by the chair that no minority reports exist.

No minority reports have been submitted to the chair as of this writing.


.Submitted by the OASIS WSRM TC chair, Tom Rutt, trutt <at> us.fujitsu.com
--

___________________________________________________________
Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com
http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup

Confidentiality
Self Improvement
Breast Enlargement
Plastic Surgery
Tooth Whitening
Massage
Spa
Liposuction
Relationships
Divorce
Marriage
Relationship Advice
Friends
Romance
Romantic Vacations
Dating
Single
Personal Ads
Online Personals
Online Dating
Internet Dating
Dating Site
Electronics
Shredders
Direct TV
Digital Cameras
Plasma TV
Cell Phones
Satellite TV
Internet
Domain Names
Web Site Design
Internet Providers
Chat Rooms
Online Auctions
Web Hosting
Hobbies
Fundraising
Photography
Karaoke
Luggage
Guitars
Inventions
Business
Merchant Account
Incorporate
Home Business
Business Education
Work at Home
Business Financing
Prescription DrugsTramadol
Soma
Ultram
Viagra
Paxil
Ambien

Pharmacy
Diazepam
Prozac
Propecia
Zoloft
Vicodin
Lipitor
Automotive
Car Insurance
Car Loans
Used Cars
Cars
New Cars
Car Audio
Home
Home Equity
Home Loan
Mortgage
Home Security
Home Improvement
Moving
Travel
Timeshare
Airline Ticket
Vacation
Hotel
Car Rental
Travel Agent
Weight Loss DrugsAdipex
Phentermine
Didrex
Bontril
Meridia
Xenical
Finance
Debt Consolidation
Cash Advance
Refinance
Online Loan
Stock Broker
Online Credit Report
Entertainment
Television
Books
Concert Tickets
Music
Movies
Gaming
Gifts
Flowers
Cigarettes
Pens
Gift Baskets
Birthday Gifts
Magazines
Careers
MBA
Jobs
Job Search
Tech Jobs
Nursing School
Human Resources
Online Shopping
Insurance Quote
DVDs
Gift Baskets
Art Prints
Italian Charms
Online Prescriptions
Marketing
Direct Mail
Telemarketing
Web Site Promotion
Mailing Lists
Promotional Items
Business Cards
Gambling
Online Casinos
Betting
Casinos
Texas Hold Em
Blackjack
Poker
Health Care
Nursing
Medicine
Weight Loss
Fitness Training
Diabetes
Skin Care
Health
Online Pharmacies
Health Insurance
Diet
Vitamin
Treadmill
Contact Lense
Education
Online Degree
Distance Learning
Higher Education
College Degree
Adult Education
Online Education
Computing
Antivirus
Computer Backup
Computers
DVD Burner
Software
RAM
and Privacy Statement
April 23, 2001 Privacy has created this policy in order to demonstrate our firm commitment to your privacy. This site contains links to other sites and is not responsible for the privacy practices or the content of such linked Web sites. Purpose and Scope This policy discloses what information we gather about you when you visit any of our Web sites. It describes how we use that information and how you can control it. Information gathers and tracks collects two kinds of information about users: data that users volunteer by signing up to receive news and information, entering contests, completing surveys, or any other similar initiative; and aggregated tracking data we collect when users interact with us. Personal information collects information about you during the site registration process. When you choose to register, our site's registration form requests users to give us contact information (like name, mail address and email address) and demographic information (like age). We use customer contact information from the registration form to send the user content and information about . Registered users may opt-out of receiving future mailings at any time, see the How to Update, Correct, or Delete your Information Section. We use the personal information you provide voluntarily to send information you've requested. The specific use of your personal information varies, depending on how you contact us: When you sign up to receive provided content and/or e-mail lists and/or discussion groups and/or message boards at , you may be required to provide information like your name, company name, occupation, industry, email address, and a password. When you register to post content on (i.e. calendar events, marketplace products and services), you may be required to provide information like your name, company name, occupation, industry, email address, and a password. We share contact and visitor information with partners as described below: With third parties we retain to perform functions on our behalf, such as managing mailing lists, email lists, delivering packages. These parties are restricted from using your information for any other purpose. We reserve the option of renting and selling our physical address mailing list and e-mail list for one-time use to third parties we deem relevant and appropriate. We release personal information when we believe that release is appropriate to comply with the law, or to protect the rights, property, or safety of , our users, or others. This may include exchanging information with other companies and organizations for fraud protection. Aggregated tracking information We analyze visitors' use of our sites by tracking information such as page views, traffic flow, search terms, and click through. We use this information to improve our sites. We also share this anonymous traffic and demographic information in aggregate form with sponsors and other business partners. Cookies A cookie is a small data file that we transfer to your computer's hard drive through your web browser when you visit our sites. Cookies enable our systems to recognize your computer, so that we can provide you with personalized information and features. We also use cookies to track user traffic patterns. On our sites, , sponsors, strategic partners and advertisers may use a third-party ad server to display ads. These ads may contain cookies. The ad server receives these cookies, and we don't have access to them. uses what we call "cookies" to store registered users names and passwords. This is an optional feature and applies only to users who have registered and who have requested to be remembered. This way we ensure you do not have to logon each time you visit our website. Third party organizations (such as advertising companies or polling companies who run polling features) may store cookies on your machine in order to ensure uniqueness. Again, these cookies do not identify you or your machine. Advertising companies and Sponsors may store cookies on your machine in order to measure and report aggregate information such as the number of people who see a page (reach) and the number of times people see their page (frequency). Cookies, by themselves, cannot be used to find out the identity of any user. The detail of the cookie stored by is not shared with third parties. You can refuse cookies by turning them off in your browser. Public Forums makes chat rooms, forums, message boards, email discussions and/or news groups available to its users. Please remember that any information that is disclosed in these areas becomes public information and you should exercise caution when deciding to disclose your personal information. Users may opt-out of the email groups at any time; see the How to Update, Correct, or Delete your Information Section. Security This site has security measures in place to protect the loss, misuse and alteration of the information under our control. Ownership The website, name and URL is owned by OASIS. Content Where a member has contributed content to , said content remains the property of the contributor and does not transfer to or it's owners. By allowing to use the said content, no ownership of is transferred to the contributor, either directly or indirectly. will not sell or resell any content that is not owned by . Notification of Changes If we change our Privacy Policy, we will post those changes on www.. If we decide to use personally identifiable information in a manner different from that stated at the time it was collected, we will notify users via email. Users will be able to opt out of any new use of their personal information. How to update, correct, or delete your information Our site provides users the opportunity to opt-out of receiving communications from and our partners at the point where we request information about the visitor. This site gives users the following options for removing their information from our database to not receive future communications or to no longer receive our service. Email: To update or unsubscribe from our email news and lists, you can remove your email from the list by emailing the unsubscribe email address supplied in each email sent via the email group or you can go to My Section at www. or to News Section. To get help from a human, send email to webmaster <at> Postal mail: To change your address or delete your name from our mailing list, send email to webmaster <at> Lawful Purposes Only All services (free web space, promotional opportunities or other) provided by to visitors (or other) may be used for lawful purposes only. Transmission or storage of any information, data or material in violation of any country law is prohibited. This includes, but is not limited to: copyrighted material, material legally judged to be threatening or obscene, or material protected by trade secret and other statue. The members, subscribers, visitors or users agree to indemnify and hold harmless from any claims resulting from the use of the service which in any way damages the visitor, member or any other parties. Cancellation of service may suspend this service at any time and for any reason, without notice. Disclaimer exercises no control whatsoever over the content of the information passing through . makes no warranties of any kind, whether expressed or implied, for the service it is providing. also disclaims any warranty of merchantability or fitness for a particular purpose. will not be responsible for any damage suffered. This includes loss of data resulting from delays, non-deliveries, mis-deliveries, or service interruptions caused by 's (or visitors, sponsors, contributors or others) negligence, errors or omissions. Use of any information obtained via is at your own risk. specifically denies any responsibility for the accuracy or quality of information obtained through its services. LIMITED LIABILITY. IS WITHOUT LIABILITY FOR DAMAGES CAUSED OR ALLEGEDLY CAUSED BY ANY FAILURE OF PERFORMANCE, ERROR, OMISSION, INTERRUPTION, DELETION, DEFECT, VIRUS, DELAY IN OPERATION OR TRANSMISSION, INNACURATE INFORMATION, COMMUNICATIONS LINE FAILURE, THEFT OR DESTRUCTION OF OR UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO, ALTERATION OF, OR USE OF RECORDS, WHETHER FOR BREACH OF CONTRACT, TORTUOUS BEHAVIOR, NEGLIGENCE, OR UNDER ANY OTHER CAUSE OF ACTION. Should any provision of this agreement be held to be illegal, invalid, or unenforceable by a court law, the legality, validity and enforceability of the remaining provisions of this agreement shall remain unaffected thereby unless otherwise stated. These Terms and Conditions supersede all previous representations, understandings or agreements and shall prevail notwithstanding any variance with terms and conditions of any order submitted. Use of constitutes acceptance of these Terms and Conditions. Prior disclaimers The policy statement and disclaimer shown above is currently in force. Contacting the Web Site If you have any questions about this privacy statement, the practices of this site, or your dealings with this Web site, you can contact General Manager .
Allfields are required.

 

 

 

 

 

Bjoern Hoehrmann | 20 Nov 2004 03:33
Picon

Re: Limitations of the CSS validator


* David Latapie wrote:
>I found what I think are limitations on the CSS validator.
>
>1. <http://www.teaser.fr/~lcolombet/empyree/dotclear/>
>
>	background:rgba(255,255,255,0);
>	color:rgba(255,255,255,0);
>
>I was not able to see them in CSS 2, only on CSS 3.
><http://www.w3.org/TR/2003/CR-css3-color-20030514/#rgba-color>

Yes, and the CSS3 support of the CSS Validator is incomplete and highly
experimental, it is likely that css3-color will be a Recommendation be-
fore it is fully supported.

>2. Opera proprietary extensions
>	-o-link: attr(cite);
>	-o-link-source: current;
><http://www.opera.com/docs/specs/#css>
>Look for the following string: "CSS Extensions for XML"
>I think this should be ignored or at least no more than a warning 
>should be displayed

That depends on the CSS profile you use for validation, none of the
supported CSS profile supports these properties, using them makes
your style sheet invalid and the Validator thus reports errors. If
you think proprietary extensions should not cause style sheets to be
invalid, you should post a comment to this effect on the relevant
profile.

>3. In French:
>Propriété érroné
>should be
>Propriété erroné

Olivier, could you take care of this?

Olivier Thereaux | 20 Nov 2004 03:48
Picon
Favicon

Re: Limitations of the CSS validator


On Sat, Nov 20, 2004, Bjoern Hoehrmann wrote:
> Yes, and the CSS3 support of the CSS Validator is incomplete and highly
> experimental, it is likely that css3-color will be a Recommendation be-
> fore it is fully supported.

Unfortunately, this is likely, although I have been trying to get some
help from the WG in updating the properties in the validator to match
the CSS3 documents. 

> >3. In French:
> >Propriété érroné
> >should be
> >Propriété erroné

I suppose you mean it should be "Propriété erronée". I fixed it in CVS,
will make its way into the service soon.

--

-- 
olivier

Sijtsche Smeman | 20 Nov 2004 20:01
Picon
Favicon

Re: Limitations of the CSS validator


Could you communicate to the others who sometimes contribute to the
development of the CSS Validator? If there happens to be a list of
differences between the validator and the recent specifications, in my
opinion it would be a good idea to put them somewhere publicly available.

Regards,
Sijtsche

----- Original Message -----
From: "Olivier Thereaux" <ot <at> w3.org>
To: "Bjoern Hoehrmann" <derhoermi <at> gmx.net>
Cc: "David Latapie" <david <at> goddess-gate.com>; <www-style <at> w3.org>;
<www-validator-css <at> w3.org>
Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 3:48 AM
Subject: Re: Limitations of the CSS validator

On Sat, Nov 20, 2004, Bjoern Hoehrmann wrote:
> Yes, and the CSS3 support of the CSS Validator is incomplete and highly
> experimental, it is likely that css3-color will be a Recommendation be-
> fore it is fully supported.

Unfortunately, this is likely, although I have been trying to get some
help from the WG in updating the properties in the validator to match
the CSS3 documents.

> >3. In French:
> >Propriété érroné
> >should be
> >Propriété erroné

I suppose you mean it should be "Propriété erronée". I fixed it in CVS,
will make its way into the service soon.

--
olivier

fantasai | 21 Nov 2004 18:49

Font selection, font downloads, and (writing system) scripts

This discussion belongs on www-style, so setting Reply-To to there.
Philippe, could you explain what you meant by

 > The key issue here is to create documents that refer to font families
 > according to their usage rather than their exact appearance and the
 > limited set of languages and scripts they support.

?

~fantasai

Philippe Verdy wrote:
> From: "Christopher Fynn" <cfynn <at> gmx.net>
...
> Christopher Fynn wrote:
> 
>> I've noticed, that with Windows and IE, - when going to a page with
>> characters for a script for which fonts are not installed my system, IE will
>> sometimes ask whether or not I want to download & install fonts for that script
>> from Microsoft's web site.
>> This only happens in some cases - even where the same script is involved.
>> I've looked the source of some of these pages but I've never been able to
>> identify just what what triggers this. Does anyone know?
...
>> I'd also like to figure out a way to trigger this kind of behavior  in 
>> other browsers as well as in IE (using Java Script or Java rather than 
>> VB) as not quite everyone uses IE - (but I guess you are not going to 
>> give me any more clues on how to do that :-) )
> 
> 
> If only there was a portable way to determine in JavaScript that a 
> string can be rendered with the existing fonts, or to enumerate the 
> installed fonts and get some of their properties... we could prompt the 
> user to install some fonts or change their browser settings, or we could 
> autoadapt the CSS style rules, notably the list of fonts inserted in the 
> "font-family:" or abbreviated "font:" CSS properties...
> 
> There are limited controls with the CSS " <at> " keys that allow building 
> "virtual" font names, but not enough to tune the font selections by 
> script or by code point ranges. And Javascript is of little help to 
> paliate.
> Certainly there's a need to include in a refined standard DOM for styles 
> the properties needed to manage prefered font stacks associated to a 
> virtual font name (for example, in a way similar to what Java2D v1.5 
> allows), that can then be referenced directly within legacy HTML <font 
> name="virtualname"> or in CSS "font-family: virtualname" properties 
> (some examples of virtual font names are standardized in HTML: "serif", 
> "sans-serif", "monospace"; Java2D or AWT adds "dialog" and 
> "dialoginput"; but other virtual names could be defined as well like 
> "decorated" or "handscript" or "ocr").
> 
> The key issue here is to create documents that refer to font families 
> according to their usage rather than their exact appearance and the 
> limited set of languages and scripts they support.
> 
> Another possibility would be to create a portable but easily tunable 
> font format (XML based? so that they can be created or tuned by 
> scripting through DOM?) which would be a list of references to various 
> external but actual fonts or glyph collections, and parameters to allows 
> selecting in them with various priorities. For now this is not 
> implemented in font technologies (OpenType, Graphite, ...) but within 
> vendor-specific renderer APIs (than contain some rules to create such 
> font mappings).


Gmane