Mesa3d: An implementation of the OpenGL API

Blaž Tomažič | 1 Mar 2011 01:13

Picon

Gallium3D and Glide

Hi Mesa developers,

I am really interested in Gallium3D and I'm thinking about a project for
my diploma (I think this is the same as bachelor's degree) on a computer
university. I'm thinking about writing a Glide state tracker for
Gallium3D. I know that Glide hasn't been used for a decade, but I think
it would be relatively "easy" to implement an old 3D API and a great way
to learn a part of Gallium3D on the way.

Some old games (only Glide: Need for Speed 2; Glide and OpenGL: Unreal,
Quake 2) used Glide API for rendering and Gallium3D could therefore
accelerate them on newer hardware and more importantly, render them with
nicer graphics instead of software rendering as is with some glide only
games. I don't know if there were any Linux games, but Gallium3D works
on Windows too if I'm not mistaken.

So I have a few question for you:
 - How hard and how much work would be involved in implementing such an
API? (Any help on implementing it would be welcomed and appreciated of
course)
 - Are Glide to OpenGL wrappers a better solution because of changing
nature of Gallium3D interface? (Personally I think they are, but I would
like to work directly on Gallium)
 - Do you think this project would fit well in Gallium3D or do you have
any other/better proposals for a project including Gallium3D?

Thank you for your answers,
Blaž Tomažič

_______________________________________________

(Continue reading)

Brian Paul | 1 Mar 2011 01:39

Picon

Re: Gallium3D and Glide

On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 4:13 PM, Blaž Tomažič <blaz.tomazic <at> gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Mesa developers,
>
> I am really interested in Gallium3D and I'm thinking about a project for
> my diploma (I think this is the same as bachelor's degree) on a computer
> university. I'm thinking about writing a Glide state tracker for
> Gallium3D. I know that Glide hasn't been used for a decade, but I think
> it would be relatively "easy" to implement an old 3D API and a great way
> to learn a part of Gallium3D on the way.
>
> Some old games (only Glide: Need for Speed 2; Glide and OpenGL: Unreal,
> Quake 2) used Glide API for rendering and Gallium3D could therefore
> accelerate them on newer hardware and more importantly, render them with
> nicer graphics instead of software rendering as is with some glide only
> games. I don't know if there were any Linux games, but Gallium3D works
> on Windows too if I'm not mistaken.
>
> So I have a few question for you:
>  - How hard and how much work would be involved in implementing such an
> API? (Any help on implementing it would be welcomed and appreciated of
> course)
>  - Are Glide to OpenGL wrappers a better solution because of changing
> nature of Gallium3D interface? (Personally I think they are, but I would
> like to work directly on Gallium)
>  - Do you think this project would fit well in Gallium3D or do you have
> any other/better proposals for a project including Gallium3D?

I don't mean to discourage you, but I this probably wouldn't be a very
good project.

(Continue reading)

Jakob Bornecrantz | 1 Mar 2011 12:00

Picon

Re: [PATCH 1/4] mesa: Add new MESA_multithread_makecurrent extension.

On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 10:11 PM, Ian Romanick <idr <at> freedesktop.org> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 02/26/2011 03:18 PM, Jakob Bornecrantz wrote:
>> On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 10:08 PM, Eric Anholt <eric <at> anholt.net> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 22 Feb 2011 11:57:38 -0800, Ian Romanick <idr <at> freedesktop.org> wrote:
>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>> Hash: SHA1
>>>>
>>>> On 02/21/2011 02:41 PM, Eric Anholt wrote:
>>>>> This extension allows a client to bind one context in multiple threads
>>>>> simultaneously.  It is then up to the client to manage synchronization of
>>>>> access to the GL, just as normal multithreaded GL from multiple contexts
>>>>> requires synchronization management to shared objects.
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>>>> We may need to make the new behavior opt-in per-context anyway.  This
>>>> changes some very subtle and touchy GL behaviors, so some of these
>>>> changes may have unforeseen affects on existing apps.  Changing these
>>>> things always makes me nervous.  Over the years we've all independently
>>>> discovered that MakeCurrent and SwapBuffers are like Koch snowflakes...
>>>> there are *only* corner cases.
>>>
>>> GL has in the past changed things that were errors to not be errors to
>>> extend functionality and make the GL more useful -- see, for example,
>>> the deltas between GL_EXT_framebuffer_object to
>>> GL_ARB_framebuffer_object, which didn't first introduce a
>>> GL_DONT_THROW_ERRORS_FOR_LUMINANCE_FBOS knob.  I don't see why we should

(Continue reading)

Blaž Tomažič | 1 Mar 2011 13:18

Picon

Gallium3D and Glide

On Mon, 2011-02-28 at 16:39 -0800, Brian Paul wrote: 
> On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 4:13 PM, Blaž Tomažič <blaz.tomazic <at> gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi Mesa developers,
> >
> > I am really interested in Gallium3D and I'm thinking about a project for
> > my diploma (I think this is the same as bachelor's degree) on a computer
> > university. I'm thinking about writing a Glide state tracker for
> > Gallium3D. I know that Glide hasn't been used for a decade, but I think
> > it would be relatively "easy" to implement an old 3D API and a great way
> > to learn a part of Gallium3D on the way.
> >
> > Some old games (only Glide: Need for Speed 2; Glide and OpenGL: Unreal,
> > Quake 2) used Glide API for rendering and Gallium3D could therefore
> > accelerate them on newer hardware and more importantly, render them with
> > nicer graphics instead of software rendering as is with some glide only
> > games. I don't know if there were any Linux games, but Gallium3D works
> > on Windows too if I'm not mistaken.
> >
> > So I have a few question for you:
> >  - How hard and how much work would be involved in implementing such an
> > API? (Any help on implementing it would be welcomed and appreciated of
> > course)
> >  - Are Glide to OpenGL wrappers a better solution because of changing
> > nature of Gallium3D interface? (Personally I think they are, but I would
> > like to work directly on Gallium)
> >  - Do you think this project would fit well in Gallium3D or do you have
> > any other/better proposals for a project including Gallium3D?
> 
> I don't mean to discourage you, but I this probably wouldn't be a very
> good project.

(Continue reading)

Keith Whitwell | 1 Mar 2011 14:36

Project ideas [was Re: Gallium3D and Glide]

On Tue, 2011-03-01 at 13:18 +0100, Blaž Tomažič wrote:
> On Mon, 2011-02-28 at 16:39 -0800, Brian Paul wrote: 
> > On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 4:13 PM, Blaž Tomažič <blaz.tomazic <at> gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Hi Mesa developers,
> > >
> > > I am really interested in Gallium3D and I'm thinking about a project for
> > > my diploma (I think this is the same as bachelor's degree) on a computer
> > > university. I'm thinking about writing a Glide state tracker for
> > > Gallium3D. I know that Glide hasn't been used for a decade, but I think
> > > it would be relatively "easy" to implement an old 3D API and a great way
> > > to learn a part of Gallium3D on the way.
> > >
> > > Some old games (only Glide: Need for Speed 2; Glide and OpenGL: Unreal,
> > > Quake 2) used Glide API for rendering and Gallium3D could therefore
> > > accelerate them on newer hardware and more importantly, render them with
> > > nicer graphics instead of software rendering as is with some glide only
> > > games. I don't know if there were any Linux games, but Gallium3D works
> > > on Windows too if I'm not mistaken.
> > >
> > > So I have a few question for you:
> > >  - How hard and how much work would be involved in implementing such an
> > > API? (Any help on implementing it would be welcomed and appreciated of
> > > course)
> > >  - Are Glide to OpenGL wrappers a better solution because of changing
> > > nature of Gallium3D interface? (Personally I think they are, but I would
> > > like to work directly on Gallium)
> > >  - Do you think this project would fit well in Gallium3D or do you have
> > > any other/better proposals for a project including Gallium3D?
> > 
> > I don't mean to discourage you, but I this probably wouldn't be a very

(Continue reading)

Brian Paul | 1 Mar 2011 16:23

Re: Gallium3D and Glide

On 03/01/2011 04:18 AM, Blaž Tomažič wrote:
> On Mon, 2011-02-28 at 16:39 -0800, Brian Paul wrote:
>> On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 4:13 PM, Blaž Tomažič<blaz.tomazic <at> gmail.com>  wrote:
>>> Hi Mesa developers,
>>>
>>> I am really interested in Gallium3D and I'm thinking about a project for
>>> my diploma (I think this is the same as bachelor's degree) on a computer
>>> university. I'm thinking about writing a Glide state tracker for
>>> Gallium3D. I know that Glide hasn't been used for a decade, but I think
>>> it would be relatively "easy" to implement an old 3D API and a great way
>>> to learn a part of Gallium3D on the way.
>>>
>>> Some old games (only Glide: Need for Speed 2; Glide and OpenGL: Unreal,
>>> Quake 2) used Glide API for rendering and Gallium3D could therefore
>>> accelerate them on newer hardware and more importantly, render them with
>>> nicer graphics instead of software rendering as is with some glide only
>>> games. I don't know if there were any Linux games, but Gallium3D works
>>> on Windows too if I'm not mistaken.
>>>
>>> So I have a few question for you:
>>>   - How hard and how much work would be involved in implementing such an
>>> API? (Any help on implementing it would be welcomed and appreciated of
>>> course)
>>>   - Are Glide to OpenGL wrappers a better solution because of changing
>>> nature of Gallium3D interface? (Personally I think they are, but I would
>>> like to work directly on Gallium)
>>>   - Do you think this project would fit well in Gallium3D or do you have
>>> any other/better proposals for a project including Gallium3D?
>>
>> I don't mean to discourage you, but I this probably wouldn't be a very

(Continue reading)

Ferry Huberts | 1 Mar 2011 17:57

Re: Project ideas [was Re: Gallium3D and Glide]


> Step one: create a "split and compare" gallium driver (perhaps based on
> failover) which runs the same set of commands on two different gallium
> drivers (eg softpipe and r600g).  At each frame, compare the two images
> and see if there are differences.

that's a very good idea: it's how I used to test ASIC designs with
C-model against register model. works perfectly and is invaluable for
finding regressions!

--

-- 
Ferry Huberts

Roland Scheidegger | 1 Mar 2011 18:51

Re: Gallium3D and Glide

Am 01.03.2011 16:23, schrieb Brian Paul:
> On 03/01/2011 04:18 AM, Blaž Tomažič wrote:
>> On Mon, 2011-02-28 at 16:39 -0800, Brian Paul wrote:
>>> On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 4:13 PM, Blaž Tomažič<blaz.tomazic <at> gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>> Hi Mesa developers,
>>>>
>>>> I am really interested in Gallium3D and I'm thinking about a project for
>>>> my diploma (I think this is the same as bachelor's degree) on a computer
>>>> university. I'm thinking about writing a Glide state tracker for
>>>> Gallium3D. I know that Glide hasn't been used for a decade, but I think
>>>> it would be relatively "easy" to implement an old 3D API and a great way
>>>> to learn a part of Gallium3D on the way.
>>>>
>>>> Some old games (only Glide: Need for Speed 2; Glide and OpenGL: Unreal,
>>>> Quake 2) used Glide API for rendering and Gallium3D could therefore
>>>> accelerate them on newer hardware and more importantly, render them with
>>>> nicer graphics instead of software rendering as is with some glide only
>>>> games. I don't know if there were any Linux games, but Gallium3D works
>>>> on Windows too if I'm not mistaken.
>>>>
>>>> So I have a few question for you:
>>>>   - How hard and how much work would be involved in implementing such an
>>>> API? (Any help on implementing it would be welcomed and appreciated of
>>>> course)
>>>>   - Are Glide to OpenGL wrappers a better solution because of changing
>>>> nature of Gallium3D interface? (Personally I think they are, but I would
>>>> like to work directly on Gallium)
>>>>   - Do you think this project would fit well in Gallium3D or do you have
>>>> any other/better proposals for a project including Gallium3D?
>>>

(Continue reading)

Eric Anholt | 1 Mar 2011 18:56

Re: [PATCH 1/4] mesa: Add new MESA_multithread_makecurrent extension.

On Tue, 1 Mar 2011 12:00:12 +0100, Jakob Bornecrantz <wallbraker <at> gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 10:11 PM, Ian Romanick <idr <at> freedesktop.org> wrote:
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > On 02/26/2011 03:18 PM, Jakob Bornecrantz wrote:
> >> On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 10:08 PM, Eric Anholt <eric <at> anholt.net> wrote:
> >>> On Tue, 22 Feb 2011 11:57:38 -0800, Ian Romanick <idr <at> freedesktop.org> wrote:
> >>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> >>>> Hash: SHA1
> >>>>
> >>>> On 02/21/2011 02:41 PM, Eric Anholt wrote:
> >>>>> This extension allows a client to bind one context in multiple threads
> >>>>> simultaneously.  It is then up to the client to manage synchronization of
> >>>>> access to the GL, just as normal multithreaded GL from multiple contexts
> >>>>> requires synchronization management to shared objects.
> >>
> >> [snip]
> >>
> >>>> We may need to make the new behavior opt-in per-context anyway.  This
> >>>> changes some very subtle and touchy GL behaviors, so some of these
> >>>> changes may have unforeseen affects on existing apps.  Changing these
> >>>> things always makes me nervous.  Over the years we've all independently
> >>>> discovered that MakeCurrent and SwapBuffers are like Koch snowflakes...
> >>>> there are *only* corner cases.
> >>>
> >>> GL has in the past changed things that were errors to not be errors to
> >>> extend functionality and make the GL more useful -- see, for example,
> >>> the deltas between GL_EXT_framebuffer_object to
> >>> GL_ARB_framebuffer_object, which didn't first introduce a

(Continue reading)

Brian Paul | 1 Mar 2011 18:55

Re: Gallium3D and Glide

On 03/01/2011 09:51 AM, Roland Scheidegger wrote:
> Am 01.03.2011 16:23, schrieb Brian Paul:
>> On 03/01/2011 04:18 AM, Blaž Tomažič wrote:
>>> On Mon, 2011-02-28 at 16:39 -0800, Brian Paul wrote:
>>>> On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 4:13 PM, Blaž Tomažič<blaz.tomazic <at> gmail.com>   wrote:
>>>>> Hi Mesa developers,
>>>>>
>>>>> I am really interested in Gallium3D and I'm thinking about a project for
>>>>> my diploma (I think this is the same as bachelor's degree) on a computer
>>>>> university. I'm thinking about writing a Glide state tracker for
>>>>> Gallium3D. I know that Glide hasn't been used for a decade, but I think
>>>>> it would be relatively "easy" to implement an old 3D API and a great way
>>>>> to learn a part of Gallium3D on the way.
>>>>>
>>>>> Some old games (only Glide: Need for Speed 2; Glide and OpenGL: Unreal,
>>>>> Quake 2) used Glide API for rendering and Gallium3D could therefore
>>>>> accelerate them on newer hardware and more importantly, render them with
>>>>> nicer graphics instead of software rendering as is with some glide only
>>>>> games. I don't know if there were any Linux games, but Gallium3D works
>>>>> on Windows too if I'm not mistaken.
>>>>>
>>>>> So I have a few question for you:
>>>>>    - How hard and how much work would be involved in implementing such an
>>>>> API? (Any help on implementing it would be welcomed and appreciated of
>>>>> course)
>>>>>    - Are Glide to OpenGL wrappers a better solution because of changing
>>>>> nature of Gallium3D interface? (Personally I think they are, but I would
>>>>> like to work directly on Gallium)
>>>>>    - Do you think this project would fit well in Gallium3D or do you have
>>>>> any other/better proposals for a project including Gallium3D?

(Continue reading)

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