Mark Rodrigues | 1 May 07:10 2008
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Daylist savings letter modifiers for zone format in Australia

Hi,

This is my first post in this mailing list so please redirect me to an
etiquette  page if I do anything wrong :)

I am using the tzdata2008b.tar.gz distribution from the 24/03/2008.

Using the Australia/Melbourne zone, it seems to imply that the format of the
zone is EST regardless whether I am in day light savings or not.

According to this article [http://www.australia.gov.au/Time_Zones] the
format should be AEST except during daylight savings in which case it is
AEDT.
It also indicates that there may be problems with all the zones in the
Australian region.

So a couple of questions:
1. What is the best way for me / us to verify this is right? Is that fact
that it is on a government web-site enough?
2. If this is correct what is the best way to update the data file. I am
more than happy to change it and send back for review and incorporation if
required / appropriate.

If you need any more from me please let me know.

Thanks and kind regards

Mark Rodrigues
http://www.codeplex.com/zoneinfo

(Continue reading)

Robert Elz | 1 May 23:51 2008
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Re: Daylist savings letter modifiers for zone format in Australia

    Date:        Thu, 1 May 2008 15:10:31 +1000
    From:        "Mark Rodrigues" <markjrodrigues <at> hotmail.com>
    Message-ID:  <BAY113-DAV4CB0E58BAA9FD2E29D4BED6DB0 <at> phx.gbl>
		 <002101c8ab49$ad84e830$088eb890$ <at> com>

  | 1. What is the best way for me / us to verify this is right? Is that fact
  | that it is on a government web-site enough?

The best thing for you to do would be to visit a law library in Melbourne
(Melbourne and Monash universities certainly have them, yu could also get a
copy of the legislation from the gpvt Printers) and look up the
Summer Time Act (1974 ??) and its ammendments, and report back to the
list what it says the time zones are called.

Time in Australia is defined by state (or territory) legislation, since
you're in Melbourne, you have the perfect opportunity to find the
original source.   Of course, if you prefer, you could also do it the
easy way and just look at a copy of the legislation on the web.

kre

Deborah Goldsmith | 2 May 01:45 2008
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Re: UTC offset for Asia/Choibalsan

I'm still not hearing any closure on this issue. Do people agree this  
is a change we should make, or is the feeling that there isn't enough  
evidence yet?

Do I need to propose a patch?

Thanks,

Deborah Goldsmith
Apple Inc.
goldsmit <at> apple.com

On Apr 23, 2008, at 6:58 AM, Alexander Krivenyshev wrote:

> Deborah Goldsmith <goldsmit <at> apple.com> writes:
>
>>
>> On Mar 31, 2008, at 7:26 AM, Guy Harris wrote:
>>> Steffen Thorsen wrote:
>>>
>>>> Several reporters in the past on this mailing list have also
>>>> reported GMT+8.
>>>
>>> ...and at least some sites I found with Google, including some in
>>> the .gov.mn domain, suggest that, at least at one point, they had
>>> DST, with the offset being GMT+09:00 during DST.  That *might* be
>>> the source of the GMT+09:00.
>>
>> Any further thoughts on this? Is this considered enough information  
>> to
(Continue reading)

Rich Wales | 2 May 18:43 2008

Re: Daylist savings letter modifiers for zone format in Australia

Hi, Mark --

Replying to your "tz" list posting:

> Using the Australia/Melbourne zone, it seems to imply that the format
> of the zone is EST regardless whether I am in day light savings or not.

My understanding has always been that the only truly official, legally
blessed abbreviations for Australian time zones are EST, CST, and WST --
without any caring for confusion between summer (daylight saving) and
non-summer time, and also without regard for confusion with similarly
named and abbreviated time zones in North America.

The abbreviations A{E,C,W}{S,D}T have been widely used on the Internet
for many years, but the time zone gurus have been reluctant to use them
because they've never been truly "official" as far as anyone knew.

If reliable sources can be found showing that these abbreviations are
now official throughout Australia, I imagine the keepers of the tz
data would be more than delighted to update the database accordingly.
However, I suspect people would prefer something more authoritative than
a single web page (even if that page is on a government web site) --
hence the suggestion to go look up the current state of the relevant
legislation for each Australian state/territory.

--

-- 
Rich Wales      ===      Palo Alto, CA, USA      ===     richw <at> richw.org
http://www.richw.org   ===   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Richwales

(Continue reading)

Herton Ronaldo Krzesinski | 2 May 20:25 2008
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No backward zone name entries in zone.tab

Hi,

Currently it seems timezone in general has a problem related to backward zone 
names and entries in zone.tab. Every time the name of a zone changes, its 
entry is replaced in zone.tab file and added to backward file as a Link, 
until now no problem, but after you install timezone how you can get the 
zone.tab entry when using the old zone name? Is there a way to do this, or 
shouldn't both the new and old zone name stay in zone.tab?

For now I made this set of commands to add back zone names to zone.tab based 
on backward file:

chmod +w zone.tab
echo -e "\n# zone info for backward zone names" >> zone.tab
cat backward | grep Link | while read link curr old; do
	if [ -z "$curr" -o -z "$old" ]; then
		echo "Error processing backward entry for zone.tab"
		exit 1
	fi
	cat zone.tab | grep -v '^#' | grep "$curr" | \
	while read l; do
		if [ "`echo \"$l\" | awk 'BEGIN { FS = \"[\t]\" } \
		     { print $3 }'`" = "$curr" ]; then
			echo "$l" | sed "s|$curr|$old|" >> zone.tab \
				|| echo ERROR >> zone.tab
		else
			echo ERROR >> zone.tab
		fi
	done
done
(Continue reading)

Mark Davis | 2 May 22:37 2008

Re: No backward zone name entries in zone.tab

Because the zone.tab TZIDs are unstable, in Unicode CLDR we have found it necessary to stabilize them with a data file that we maintain. Because they are used as keys for localization, we can't have them changing out from underneath us. So what we do is take all of the changes in successive versions of the TZDB except that for name changes in zone.tab.

http://www.unicode.org/cldr/data/common/supplemental/supplementalData.xml
under zoneItem, eg:
<zoneItem type="America/Buenos_Aires" territory="AR" aliases="America/Argentina/Buenos_Aires"/>

Mark

On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 11:25 AM, Herton Ronaldo Krzesinski <herton <at> mandriva.com.br> wrote:
Hi,

Currently it seems timezone in general has a problem related to backward zone
names and entries in zone.tab. Every time the name of a zone changes, its
entry is replaced in zone.tab file and added to backward file as a Link,
until now no problem, but after you install timezone how you can get the
zone.tab entry when using the old zone name? Is there a way to do this, or
shouldn't both the new and old zone name stay in zone.tab?

For now I made this set of commands to add back zone names to zone.tab based
on backward file:

chmod +w zone.tab
echo -e "\n# zone info for backward zone names" >> zone.tab
cat backward | grep Link | while read link curr old; do
       if [ -z "$curr" -o -z "$old" ]; then
               echo "Error processing backward entry for zone.tab"
               exit 1
       fi
       cat zone.tab | grep -v '^#' | grep "$curr" | \
       while read l; do
               if [ "`echo \"$l\" | awk 'BEGIN { FS = \"[\t]\" } \
                    { print $3 }'`" = "$curr" ]; then
                       echo "$l" | sed "s|$curr|$old|" >> zone.tab \
                               || echo ERROR >> zone.tab
               else
                       echo ERROR >> zone.tab
               fi
       done
done
if grep -q "^ERROR" zone.tab; then
       echo "Error adding backward entries to zone.tab"
       exit 1
fi

Without old zone names in zone.tab, problems like this can happen when
applications still use old zone names:
https://qa.mandriva.com/show_bug.cgi?id=40184

Other solution would be to just install backward file in the system to allow
applications to know the zone that changed names and use the new name.

--
[]'s
Herton




--
Mark
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RE: UTC offset for Asia/Choibalsan

> I'm still not hearing any closure on this issue. Do people agree this

> is a change we should make, or is the feeling that there isn't enough

> evidence yet?

> Do I need to propose a patch?

Our best information comes from Steffen Thorsen's 2008-03-31 message:
> eznis airways, which operates several domestic flights, has a flight
schedule here:
> http://www.eznis.com/Container.jsp?id=112 (click the English flag for
English)

> There it appears that flights between Choibalsan and Ulaanbatar arrive
about 1:35 - 1:50 hours later in local clock
> time, no matter the direction, while Ulaanbaatar-Khvod takes 2 hours
in the Eastern direction and 3:35 back, which
> indicates that Ulaanbatar and Khvod are in different time zones (like
we know about), while Choibalsan and
> Ulaanbatar are in the same time zone (correction needed).

This is good evidence that Choibalsan and Ulaanbaatar are now in the
same time zone. What we don't yet know is when Choibalsan shifted its
clocks to agree with those in Ulaanbaatar. Ideally, we'd use that
instant in the time zone file. If the instant can't be learned, we'd put
in some arbitrary cutover date with a note that it was arbitrary, a
la...

	# Choibalsan, a.k.a. Bajan Tuemen, Bajan Tumen, Chojbalsan,
	# Choybalsan, Sanbejse, Tchoibalsan
	# XXX actual instant when Choibalsan switched from GMTOFF of 9
to 8 unknown.
	Zone	Asia/Choibalsan	7:38:00 -	LMT	1905 Aug
					7:00	-	ULAT	1978
					8:00	-	ULAT	1983 Apr
					9:00	Mongol	CHO%sT	2008 Mar
30 # Choibalsan Time
					8:00	Mongol	CHO%sT

My Spanish was good enough to let me do research on the Cuban situation
earlier this year; I'm not so blessed when it comes to the Mongolian
situation. So: does anyone know when Choibalsan shifted clocks? If not,
does anyone have insights into the best phony cutover date to use?

				--ado

Alex Krivenyshev | 9 May 15:36 2008
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Morocco plan to introduce Daylight Saving Time

Here is an article that Morocco plan to introduce Daylight Saving Time between 
1 June, 2008 and 27 September, 2008.

"... Morocco is to save energy by adjusting its clock during summer so it will 
be one hour ahead of GMT between 1 June and 27 September, according to 
Communication Minister and Gov ernment Spokesman, Khalid Naciri...."

http://www.worldtimezone.net/dst_news/dst_news_morocco01.html
OR
http://en.afrik.com/news11892.html

Alex Krivenyshev,
http://www.WTZ.com
http://www.worldtimezone.com/dst_news/
New York, NY

Alex Krivenyshev | 9 May 16:19 2008
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Re: Morocco plan to introduce Daylight Saving Time

Alex Krivenyshev <worldtimezone <at> yahoo.com> writes:

> 
> Here is an article that Morocco plan to introduce Daylight Saving Time 
between 
> 1 June, 2008 and 27 September, 2008.
> 
> "... Morocco is to save energy by adjusting its clock during summer so it 
will 
> be one hour ahead of GMT between 1 June and 27 September, according to 
> Communication Minister and Gov ernment Spokesman, Khalid Naciri...."
> 
> http://www.worldtimezone.net/dst_news/dst_news_morocco01.html
> OR
> http://en.afrik.com/news11892.html
> 
> Alex Krivenyshev,
> http://www.WTZ.com
> http://www.worldtimezone.com/dst_news/
> New York, NY
> 
> 

The Morocco time change can be confirmed on Morocco web site-  
Maghreb Arabe Presse:
http://www.map.ma/eng/sections/box3/morocco_shifts_to_da/view

Morocco shifts to daylight time on June 1st through September 27, Govt. 
spokesman.

Alex Krivenyshev,
http://www.WTZ.com
http://www.worldtimezone.com/dst_news/
New York, NY

Patrice Scattolin | 9 May 20:24 2008
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Re: Morocco plan to introduce Daylight Saving Time

According to this article: http://www.avmaroc.com/actualite/heure-dete-comment-a127896.html  (and republished here: http://www.actu.ma/heure-dete-comment_i127896_0.html)
the changes occurs at midnight:

   saturday night may 31st at midnight (which in french is to be intrepreted as the night between saturday and sunday)
   sunday night the 28th  at midnight

Seeing that the 28th is monday, I am guessing that she intends to say the midnight of the 28th which is the midnight between sunday and monday, which jives with other sources that say that it's inclusive june1st to sept 27th.

The decision was taken by decree 2-08-224 but I can't find the decree published on the web.

It's also confirmed here: http://www.maroc.ma/NR/exeres/FACF141F-D910-44B0-B7FA-6E03733425D1.htm on a government portal as being  between june 1st and sept 27th (not yet posted in english).

The following google query will generate many relevant hits:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Conseil+de+gouvernement+maroc+heure+avance&btnG=Search

Alex Krivenyshev wrote:
Alex Krivenyshev <worldtimezone <at> yahoo.com> writes:
Here is an article that Morocco plan to introduce Daylight Saving Time
between
1 June, 2008 and 27 September, 2008. "... Morocco is to save energy by adjusting its clock during summer so it
will
be one hour ahead of GMT between 1 June and 27 September, according to Communication Minister and Gov ernment Spokesman, Khalid Naciri...." http://www.worldtimezone.net/dst_news/dst_news_morocco01.html OR http://en.afrik.com/news11892.html Alex Krivenyshev, http://www.WTZ.com http://www.worldtimezone.com/dst_news/ New York, NY
The Morocco time change can be confirmed on Morocco web site- Maghreb Arabe Presse: http://www.map.ma/eng/sections/box3/morocco_shifts_to_da/view Morocco shifts to daylight time on June 1st through September 27, Govt. spokesman. Alex Krivenyshev, http://www.WTZ.com http://www.worldtimezone.com/dst_news/ New York, NY


--



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