Talha Yalta | 2 Dec 10:56 2009
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Menu re-structuring 2009

On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 11:17 PM, Allin Cottrell <cottrell@...> wrote:
>
> On Tue, 1 Dec 2009, Talha Yalta wrote:
>
>> If I am not mistaken, about three years ago we've had a discussion
>> regarding a reorganization of the gretl menus, which resulted in a
>> much improved user interface. Since gretl keeps getting more and more
>> functionality and new menu items, this may be a good time to do this
>> again. As a result:
>> 1)- I support Allin's proposal to merge "Data", "View" and "Sample" to
>> 2 headings.
>
> Hmm, I did float that idea, but I'm not sure how to do it.

I think there is definitely room for improvement in the current gretl
menu structure. Here is a humble proposal by yours truly:

PROPOSAL FOR THE ADVANCEMENT OF THE GRETL MENU AND WINDOWS STRUCTURE
FOR A BETTER ACCOMODATION OF THE INCREASED CAPACITY AND FUNCTIONALITY
SINCE THE VERSION 1.6.0
by A. Talha Yalta
December 2 2009

In July 2006, the gretl-users mailing list has seen a lengthy
discussion on how to restructure the gretl menus, which were perceived
at the time by the users and the developers to have become too
cluttered due to the increased functionality by the version 1.5.1.
This discussion can be accessed from the archives at
http://lists.wfu.edu/pipermail/gretl-users/2006-July/000829.html
Thanks to the lead developer Allin Cottrell's efforts, the "menu
(Continue reading)

Allin Cottrell | 2 Dec 15:37 2009
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Re: Menu re-structuring 2009


On Wed, 2 Dec 2009, Talha Yalta wrote:

> PROPOSAL FOR THE ADVANCEMENT OF THE GRETL MENU AND WINDOWS STRUCTURE
> FOR A BETTER ACCOMODATION OF THE INCREASED CAPACITY AND FUNCTIONALITY
> SINCE THE VERSION 1.6.0...

I have implemented a couple of things which were easy, and which
seemed to me relatively uncontroversial cases of clean-up -- that
is, I have moved the font selection items and the working
directory selector into the Preferences dialog.

Allin
Sven Schreiber | 2 Dec 15:59 2009
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Re: Menu re-structuring 2009

Talha Yalta schrieb:

> 
> In July 2006, the gretl-users mailing list has seen a lengthy
> discussion on how to restructure the gretl menus, which were perceived
> at the time by the users and the developers to have become too
> cluttered due to the increased functionality by the version 1.5.1.
> This discussion can be accessed from the archives at
> http://lists.wfu.edu/pipermail/gretl-users/2006-July/000829.html

has it been three years already? time goes by ...

I don't have time right now to really think about the various
connections, sorry. so here's just isolated reactions.

> 1)- The sample menu will be a sub-menu of the data menu. To accomplish
> this, it first needs to be slimmed-down as follows:
>      a)- The count of missing values will be added to the status window.

do you mean an additional column in the main window listing number of
missings for each variable? sounds ok -- but where do you put the
information about missings per observation index (period for time series)?

>      b)- The "Define based on dummy..." item will be removed since
> this can be easily (and even better) accomplished using the "Restrict
> based on criterion..." item and with simple criterions such as
> dummyname=1 or dummyname=0.

I think it's a good idea to consolidate the two things into one dialog
window. I don't think it's good to just remove the dummy variant.
(Continue reading)

Sven Schreiber | 2 Dec 16:00 2009
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Re: Menu re-structuring 2009

Allin Cottrell schrieb:
 and the working
> directory selector into the Preferences dialog.
> 

Noooooooo ;-)  -- see my other message

-sven
Allin Cottrell | 2 Dec 16:06 2009
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Re: Menu re-structuring 2009


On Wed, 2 Dec 2009, Sven Schreiber wrote:

>
> Allin Cottrell schrieb:
>  and the working
> > directory selector into the Preferences dialog.
> >
>
> Noooooooo ;-)  -- see my other message

OK, will reconsider that.

Allin.
Allin Cottrell | 2 Dec 16:14 2009
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Re: Menu re-structuring 2009


On Wed, 2 Dec 2009, Allin Cottrell wrote:

> On Wed, 2 Dec 2009, Sven Schreiber wrote:
>
> >
> > Allin Cottrell schrieb:
> >  and the working
> > > directory selector into the Preferences dialog.
> > >
> >
> > Noooooooo ;-)  -- see my other message
>
> OK, will reconsider that.

This is now reverted.  In case of differing views we should stay
with the status quo.

Allin.

Talha Yalta | 2 Dec 20:39 2009
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Re: Menu re-structuring 2009

The "Window" menu is pretty standard. Word, excel and Powerpoint have
it. Openoffice has it. Photoshop has it etc. I think gretl definitely
can benefit from it because it GUI approach is based on working with
multiple windows. But I strongly think that we cannot have a window
menu as a sub-menu under the "View" menu.

Now, adding a "window" menu is nice but then we will have 10 menus
which is a bit too much. That is why I propose combining the data menu
and the "View" menu under one "Data" menu. This would be more
consistent. Most of the items in the view menu refer to the dataset
anyway.

I also proposed removing the sample menu in favor of a sub-menu or a
separate "sample controls" window (after thinking more about it, I now
favor the latter). This new window will not only show the current
sample status but also let the user make changes easily.

I think the above changes alone would be a significant improvement.
First, we will have 8 instead of 9 menus and the menu items will be
more balanced. Moreover, we will have a nice "window" menu next to the
"Help" menu as expected by anyone familiar with computers.

I don't expect or insist that we implement the proposal fully and
without any reservations but I think it really deserves to be taken a
bit more seriously. I have put a lot of thought into it so I would
really appreciate having from the fellow users and developers more
than a few "isolated comments" or "implementing a couple of things
which are easy." The menu restructuring is something that needs to be
done sooner or later so why not do it now?

(Continue reading)

Berend Hasselman | 2 Dec 21:23 2009
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Re: Menu re-structuring 2009


On 02-12-2009, at 20:39, Talha Yalta wrote:

> The "Window" menu is pretty standard. Word, excel and Powerpoint have
> it. Openoffice has it. Photoshop has it etc. I think gretl definitely
> can benefit from it because it GUI approach is based on working with
> multiple windows. But I strongly think that we cannot have a window
> menu as a sub-menu under the "View" menu.
> 

I agree.
On Mac OS X a Window menu item is standard (to the left of the Help item) with standard items as Zoom, Minimize
and more and the titles of open windows.
You can put more items in the Window menu besides window titles.
(I know of one exception: TextWrangler which has three small iconic items between Window and Help;
probably same holds for BBEdit).
Gimp has a Windows menu item just to the left of Help.
Gnumeric doesn't seem to have a Window menu.

> Now, adding a "window" menu is nice but then we will have 10 menus
> which is a bit too much. That is why I propose combining the data menu
> and the "View" menu under one "Data" menu. This would be more
> consistent. Most of the items in the view menu refer to the dataset
> anyway.

Gimp also has at least 11 menu items.
Is 10 items really too much?

Berend
(Continue reading)

Allin Cottrell | 2 Dec 21:28 2009
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Re: Menu re-structuring 2009


On Wed, 2 Dec 2009, Talha Yalta wrote:

> I don't expect or insist that we implement the proposal fully and
> without any reservations but I think it really deserves to be taken a
> bit more seriously.

And I think you should take more seriously the possibility that
other people are extremely busy and can't just jump to it and
address in detail (let alone implement) your proposals right away.

Allin Cottrell
Allin Cottrell | 3 Dec 02:56 2009
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Recent menu changes


In case anyone's wondering, "Where did that menu item go?", here's
an account of the changes I've made in the main window menus
lately (some in response the comments of Talha and others, some
prior to that).  (This is all without prejudice to any larger
scheme for reorganizing things, but might be helpful if we do
decide to go that way.)

Data menu:

- Consolidated "Read info" and "Edit info" into "Dataset info"
(you just get to read if it's a packaged data file; you can edit
if it's your own data file).

- Consolidated "Add markers" and "Remove markers" into
"Observation markers".  The choices you get depend on whether the
dataset has observation markers or not; it it does, you get a new
option to export the markers to file (enabling you to "clone" the
markers from one dataset to another).

- Moved the items "Set missing value code" and "Count missing
values" to here from the Sample menu; moved the item "Find
variable" here from the Variable menu.

- Removed the old "Print report" item as redundant.

Sample menu:

- Consolidated the items "Restrict, based on dummy" and "Restrict,
based on criterion".  Using a dummy is now an option in the "based
(Continue reading)


Gmane