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Axel Liljencrantz | 1 Sep 2006 02:03
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Re: Minor new fish feature

On 8/31/06, Martin Bähr <mbaehr@...> wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 31, 2006 at 06:20:32PM +0200, Axel Liljencrantz wrote:
> > It is sometimes easier to rememer the name of a control sequence than
> > it's value.
>
> absolutely, this definetly goes a long way towards not missing verbatim
> input with ctrl-v. thank you.
>
> > * Numbered sequences, like \4, \x3f and \u2026
> > * Numbered byte seqences, like \Xfe (These differ from the above in
> > that they can be used to create bytes which do not exist in the
> > current character set, e.g. values above 127 in an ASCII locale)
>
> this has me confused now, \x3f dies not go above 127?
> what is \xff and how does it differ from \Xff?

\xXX is an ASCII character yes. If you want to go higher, use \uXX, it
allows you to use up to 16 bits. The C standard says this about \xXX
characters:

The value of an octal or  hexadecimal  escape  sequence shall  be  in
the range of representable values for the type unsigned char for an
integer  character  constant,  or  the unsigned  type corresponding to
wchar_t for a wide character constant.

So it should actually be ok to extend this up to 256. The problem is
that ISO C does not specify the character encoding, so this is rarely
portable. I chose Ascii as the encoding for \xXX sequences. It would
be easy to chose Unicode as the encoding and extend this to make \xXX
allow any single-byte unicode sequence.
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Axel Liljencrantz | 1 Sep 2006 02:04
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Re: showing 0% in pager means nothing

On 8/31/06, Martin Bähr <mbaehr@...> wrote:
> hi,
>
> another minor nitpick:
>
> the pager shows the percentage of the first line, which is always 0%
> more useful would be to show how far the last line is because it makes a
> big difference if you are seeing the first 23 from 25 lines, which is
> 90% of the whole output, or the first 23 from 230 lines, which would be
> 10%. currently you get 0% for both, which is not very informative...

Good idea. Will fix.

>
> greetings, martin.
> --
> cooperative communication with sTeam      -     caudium, pike, roxen and unix
> offering: programming, training and administration   -  anywhere in the world
> --
> pike programmer   travelling and working in europe             open-steam.org
> unix system-      bahai.or.at                        iaeste.(tuwien.ac|or).at
> administrator     (caudium|gotpike).org                          is.schon.org
> Martin Bähr       http://www.iaeste.or.at/~mbaehr/
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
> Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
> Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
> _______________________________________________
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Martin Bähr | 1 Sep 2006 03:40
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Re: getting fish version from within the shell?

On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 12:37:50PM +0200, Axel Liljencrantz wrote:
> axel <at> hellboy /m/h/a/c/c/fish_current> echo $version
> 1.21.11
> axel <at> hellboy /m/h/a/c/c/fish_current> set version 1.21.12
> set: Tried to change the read-only variable "version"

great. i also just figured out where to change the version so that i can
have it matching to the patchlevel:
> echo $version
1.21.11-0darcs2

greetings, martin.
--

-- 
cooperative communication with sTeam      -     caudium, pike, roxen and unix
offering: programming, training and administration   -  anywhere in the world
--
pike programmer   travelling and working in europe             open-steam.org
unix system-      bahai.or.at                        iaeste.(tuwien.ac|or).at
administrator     (caudium|gotpike).org                          is.schon.org
Martin Bähr       http://www.iaeste.or.at/~mbaehr/

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
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Axel Liljencrantz | 1 Sep 2006 14:25
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Re: showing 0% in pager means nothing

On 9/1/06, Axel Liljencrantz <liljencrantz@...> wrote:
> On 8/31/06, Martin Bähr
<mbaehr@...> wrote:
> > hi,
> >
> > another minor nitpick:
> >
> > the pager shows the percentage of the first line, which is always 0%
> > more useful would be to show how far the last line is because it makes a
> > big difference if you are seeing the first 23 from 25 lines, which is
> > 90% of the whole output, or the first 23 from 230 lines, which would be
> > 10%. currently you get 0% for both, which is not very informative...
>
> Good idea. Will fix.

I implemented this and I can't say the new mode is a new improvement.
As you point out, startin at 0% means you don't know how many more
completions there are. But if the position indicator has a minimum
that is above 0%, then when scrolling back up a completion list, you
have no idea how near the top you are. The problem is the same only in
a different place.

There is a lot of room on the last line of the completion pager, one
could do more than give a single number. The main problem I see with
that is how to make this intuitive. For example, showing two different
percentages would mean noting. There are two main possibilities I see.

1). 'Graphical' progress meter

If you are displaying completions 0-100 out ouf 400 it could look like this:
(Continue reading)

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Frederik 'Freso' S. Olesen | 1 Sep 2006 14:39
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Re: showing 0% in pager means nothing

2006/9/1, Axel Liljencrantz <liljencrantz@...>:
<zap>
>There is a lot of room on the last line of the completion pager, one
>could do more than give a single number. The main problem I see with
>that is how to make this intuitive. [...]
>
>1). 'Graphical' progress meter
<zap>
>2). Pages
>
>Tell the user rougly what 'page' of output the are seeing. If you are
>displaying completions 0-100 out ouf 400 it could look like this:
>
>page 1 of 4
>
>and when displaying completions 50-100 out of 400, it would look like this
>
>page 2 of 8

How would it handle completions 3-103 of 400? (Not sure if that is
feasible, but it would be nice to have it cleared up. :))

Another possibility might be simply stating:

lines 3 to 103 of 400.

--

-- 
Frederik 'Freso' S. Olesen <http://freso.dk/>

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Martin Bähr | 1 Sep 2006 15:22
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improving the pager (was: showing 0% in pager means nothing)

On Fri, Sep 01, 2006 at 02:25:25PM +0200, Axel Liljencrantz wrote:
> I implemented this and I can't say the new mode is a new improvement.
> As you point out, startin at 0% means you don't know how many more
> completions there are. But if the position indicator has a minimum
> that is above 0%, then when scrolling back up a completion list, you
> have no idea how near the top you are.

i'd disagree on that: you do have an idea because you have seen the
top already and you know how many pages you went down and back up.

scrolling back up is less likely to happen than scrolling down.
so the current way would be more often a problem than the new one.

> page 1 of 4
> page 2 of 8

i like that.
that is generally the info i want to know. i could care less if it is 20%
or 23% but i want to know how often i have to hit space to get to the end.

while we are talking about the pager:

in general i find any scrolling in completions irritating,
and i'd like to see the choices reduced to one screenful if at all
possible.

a way to do this could be that if tabexpansion does not fit on screen
only list the choices for the next character (and possibly the
continuation for each, with a count of remaining choices)
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Martin Baehr | 1 Sep 2006 15:26
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Re: showing 0% in pager means nothing

On Fri, Sep 01, 2006 at 02:39:55PM +0200, Frederik 'Freso' S. Olesen wrote:
> Another possibility might be simply stating:
> lines 3 to 103 of 400.

like less does it:
lines 1-22/117 22%
lines 3-24/117 23%
lines 96-117/117 (END) 

greetings, martin.
--

-- 
cooperative communication with sTeam      -     caudium, pike, roxen and unix
offering: programming, training and administration   -  anywhere in the world
--
pike programmer   travelling and working in europe             open-steam.org
unix system-      bahai.or.at                        iaeste.(tuwien.ac|or).at
administrator     (caudium|gotpike).org                          is.schon.org
Martin Bähr       http://www.iaeste.or.at/~mbaehr/

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
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http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
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Axel Liljencrantz | 1 Sep 2006 16:05
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Re: showing 0% in pager means nothing

On 9/1/06, Frederik 'Freso' S. Olesen <freso.dk@...> wrote:
> 2006/9/1, Axel Liljencrantz <liljencrantz@...>:
> <zap>
> >There is a lot of room on the last line of the completion pager, one
> >could do more than give a single number. The main problem I see with
> >that is how to make this intuitive. [...]
> >
> >1). 'Graphical' progress meter
> <zap>
> >2). Pages
> >
> >Tell the user rougly what 'page' of output the are seeing. If you are
> >displaying completions 0-100 out ouf 400 it could look like this:
> >
> >page 1 of 4
> >
> >and when displaying completions 50-100 out of 400, it would look like this
> >
> >page 2 of 8
>
> How would it handle completions 3-103 of 400? (Not sure if that is
> feasible, but it would be nice to have it cleared up. :))

I imagened one would round downwards, though one could also use one
decimal of precision, e.g. page 1.3 of 5, etc.

>
> Another possibility might be simply stating:
>
> lines 3 to 103 of 400.
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Axel Liljencrantz | 1 Sep 2006 16:08
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Re: showing 0% in pager means nothing

On 9/1/06, Martin Baehr <mbaehr@...> wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 01, 2006 at 02:39:55PM +0200, Frederik 'Freso' S. Olesen wrote:
> > Another possibility might be simply stating:
> > lines 3 to 103 of 400.
>
> like less does it:
> lines 1-22/117 22%
> lines 3-24/117 23%
> lines 96-117/117 (END)

The downside is that with 4 numbers, I am personally too stupid to get
the information I need with just a quick glance. I have to spend a
second thinking about which number means what and what it really is I
need to know.

>
> greetings, martin.
> --
> cooperative communication with sTeam      -     caudium, pike, roxen and unix
> offering: programming, training and administration   -  anywhere in the world
> --
> pike programmer   travelling and working in europe             open-steam.org
> unix system-      bahai.or.at                        iaeste.(tuwien.ac|or).at
> administrator     (caudium|gotpike).org                          is.schon.org
> Martin Bähr       http://www.iaeste.or.at/~mbaehr/

--

-- 
Axel

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Axel Liljencrantz | 1 Sep 2006 16:11
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improving the pager (was: showing 0% in pager means nothing)

On 9/1/06, Martin Bähr <mbaehr@...> wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 01, 2006 at 02:25:25PM +0200, Axel Liljencrantz wrote:
> > I implemented this and I can't say the new mode is a new improvement.
> > As you point out, startin at 0% means you don't know how many more
> > completions there are. But if the position indicator has a minimum
> > that is above 0%, then when scrolling back up a completion list, you
> > have no idea how near the top you are.
>
> i'd disagree on that: you do have an idea because you have seen the
> top already and you know how many pages you went down and back up.
>
> scrolling back up is less likely to happen than scrolling down.
> so the current way would be more often a problem than the new one.

True. On the other hand, starting the pager position at e.g. 23% is
pretty unintuitive. I don't think it's meaningful to try and decide
which of these systems is the worst when we could simply try to find
an actually good system, though.

>
> > page 1 of 4
> > page 2 of 8
>
> i like that.
> that is generally the info i want to know. i could care less if it is 20%
> or 23% but i want to know how often i have to hit space to get to the end.
>

Yes, it might be that giving less information is better here.
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