alexxxm | 6 Jul 2011 10:10
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tkinter - hopefully forecasting a very long life...


Hi people,
I'm midway in writing a simple wiki, in python+tkinter (thanks also to your
help, http://old.nabble.com/newbie-request-for-help-td31791699.html).
Simple for the typical developer maybe, but for me is long work, and once
you start optimizing stuff, it can become a very large project.
And suddenly I become prey of doubts: did I chose the right language?
>From the POV of being the easiest method I found for writing a program and
its GUI, I'm really happy with it.
But I intend to use this wiki for many years to come... will tkinter stay
with us for so long? What do you think about tkinter's long-term
prospectives?

thanks for your help!

alessandro

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Kevin Buchs | 6 Jul 2011 14:22
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Re: tkinter - hopefully forecasting a very long life...

Alesandro,


Tk has been around for probably more than 20 years. It is established in many applications. I would think that tkinter is well established. However, you have to consider that computer science is an ever-changing field. Some things that were well established 20 years ago are gone now. And, 40 years ago: ever used punched cards, reel-to-reel tape, Lisp, COBOL or Fortran? Things will change. If you really want insurance against change, grab all the tools you use in source form, to the extent they are available and maintain your current environment as long as your hardware holds out. You can get Linux, compilers, Tk, Python and all the Python packages you use in your Wiki project and keep those going. 

When I first started to read your post, I assumed that you were developing the wiki as a learning exercise. Then when I got to your question about long term availability I realized you want a production tool. So, I just have to ask now, why not use what has been developed by others. HTML browsers are an ideal tool for navigating Wikis. I am not sure of what role Tk plays in your project, but developing a full-browser capability seems like a lot of work. There are plenty of open-source wikis available. I think there are probably wikis available written in Python. They need not provide any graphical interface to work. You can even buy a production, enterprise class commercial wiki from Atlassian for $10. 

Kevin Buchs

On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 3:10 AM, alexxxm <magni <at> inrim.it> wrote:
What do you think about tkinter's long-term prospectives?

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Wayne Werner | 6 Jul 2011 14:25
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Re: tkinter - hopefully forecasting a very long life...

On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 3:10 AM, alexxxm <magni <at> inrim.it> wrote:

Hi people,
I'm midway in writing a simple wiki, in python+tkinter (thanks also to your
help, http://old.nabble.com/newbie-request-for-help-td31791699.html).
Simple for the typical developer maybe, but for me is long work, and once
you start optimizing stuff, it can become a very large project.
And suddenly I become prey of doubts: did I chose the right language?
>From the POV of being the easiest method I found for writing a program and
its GUI, I'm really happy with it.
But I intend to use this wiki for many years to come... will tkinter stay
with us for so long? What do you think about tkinter's long-term
prospectives?

Tkinter has been around for a *long* time, and from what I gather is still under active development. I strongly suspect that, barring some worldwide disaster, or the death of Python, Tkinter will probably be around and plenty strong for many more years. 

Though if you're worried about how your GUI is handling things, you might start looking at some design patterns, such as the model-view-presenter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model-view-presenter) that help you separate the business logic of your program from the view of your program. Theoretically that means that if you did it right, you could change your front end from Tkinter to HTML to GTK to a Braille output with just a few keystrokes (assuming you had the front end setup correctly!).

Good design is one of those hard things in programming - and usually there's no right answer, though there are definitely many *wrong* answers ;)

Good luck!
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alexxxm | 7 Jul 2011 09:11
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Re: tkinter - hopefully forecasting a very long life...


Hi Kevin, thank you for your reply.
I would not call it a production tool, maybe, since it will be used just by
me: I will upload it as free software of course, but I already know that
it's not something people are much interested into: a wiki-based
organization of the whole filesystem - if you're interested read a bit about
it in http://www.inrim.it/~magni/zimDMS.htm . I would not know how to manage
my hundreds of folders, hierarchies, projects, thoughts ... without it:
since I started using it it has been a real godsend.

At the moment, I have it perfectly working, running around the Zim wiki
http://www.zim-wiki.org/ 
My problem: I can trace the oldest data/thoughts in my disk to +/- 20 years
ago (old C64 programs!), and I imagine I will be around for much more time
:-) so I want to have an "infobase system" that will span decades, not
requiring restarting from scratch if a wiki or a toolkit isnt supported
anymore.
This of course implies a rigorous separation of the data from the GUI (as
Wayne correctly said!) and I'm already doing that... but since I'm not a GUI
programmer, I wanted something accessible, and at the same time something
with a looong future ahead!

alessandro

Kevin Buchs-2 wrote:
> 
> Alesandro,
> 
> Tk has been around for probably more than 20 years. It is established in
> many applications. I would think that tkinter is well established.
> However,
> you have to consider that computer science is an ever-changing field. Some
> things that were well established 20 years ago are gone now. And, 40 years
> ago: ever used punched cards, reel-to-reel tape, Lisp, COBOL or Fortran?
> Things will change. If you really want insurance against change, grab all
> the tools you use in source form, to the extent they are available and
> maintain your current environment as long as your hardware holds out. You
> can get Linux, compilers, Tk, Python and all the Python packages you use
> in
> your Wiki project and keep those going.
> 
> When I first started to read your post, I assumed that you were developing
> the wiki as a learning exercise. Then when I got to your question about
> long
> term availability I realized you want a production tool. So, I just have
> to
> ask now, why not use what has been developed by others. HTML browsers are
> an
> ideal tool for navigating Wikis. I am not sure of what role Tk plays in
> your
> project, but developing a full-browser capability seems like a lot of
> work.
> There are plenty of open-source wikis available. I think there are
> probably
> wikis available written in Python. They need not provide any graphical
> interface to work. You can even buy a production, enterprise class
> commercial wiki from Atlassian for $10.
> 
> Kevin Buchs
> 
> On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 3:10 AM, alexxxm <magni <at> inrim.it> wrote:
> 
>> What do you think about tkinter's long-term prospectives?
>>
>>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Tkinter-discuss mailing list
> Tkinter-discuss <at> python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tkinter-discuss
> 
> 

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Kevin Buchs | 7 Jul 2011 14:40
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Re: tkinter - hopefully forecasting a very long life...

Alessandro,


It sounds like you have a good plan. If I wanted to future-proof a project like that, I would probably implement it as an HTML5/CSS/javascript generator and use a browser to navigate it. That would put the future-proof requirement above any desire to learn GUI programming. Almost any GUI implementation today may be outdated in 20 years. 20 years ago I was writing C-code talking to Xlib for GUI development. Today the world is very different.

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Cameron Laird | 7 Jul 2011 15:18

Re: tkinter - hopefully forecasting a very long life...

On Thu, Jul 07, 2011 at 07:40:59AM -0500, Kevin Buchs wrote:
			.
			.
			.
> It sounds like you have a good plan. If I wanted to future-proof a project
> like that, I would probably implement it as an HTML5/CSS/javascript
> generator and use a browser to navigate it. That would put the future-proof
> requirement above any desire to learn GUI programming. Almost any GUI
> implementation today may be outdated in 20 years. 20 years ago I was writing
> C-code talking to Xlib for GUI development. Today the world is very
> different.
			.
			.
			.
I'm as fond of Tkinter as anyone, and continue to work in it;
HTML5 is the way of the future, though.

Cameron Laird       <Cameron <at> phaseit.net>       +1 281 996 8546 FAX
http://phaseit.net/claird/misc.writing/publications.html
http://twitter.com/Phaseit
Lynn Oliver | 12 Jul 2011 21:34
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tkFileDialog.askdirectory() not resizable in Windows

Using Python versions 2.6.6 or 2.7.1, the tkFileDialog.askdirectory() dialog box is resizable in OS X but
not on WinXP or Win7.  tkFileDialog.askopenfilename() is resizable in both environments.

Is there a way to work around this?

Lynn
Georges Arsouze | 15 Jul 2011 11:37
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Python3.1 mac os

Hi

sorry for my poor english
1) I'm working on mac os  snow leopard 10.6 and python 3.1
I want to use the ttk and tix widgets

 I have an error message : require tile

On the mailing list i see

I think that it is probably much easier to install the tile extension 
for Tk-8.4 than upgrading Tcl/Tk and Python to Tk-8.5 . You can look 
for tile packages here: 
   http://sourceforge.net/projects/tktable/files/
and once tile is installed you can use ttk just as if you had Tk-8.5 . 

I hope this helps 

Michael 

What can i do for installing tile ?

2)I try pyhon 3.2 from activate state
Tcl/tk is in version 5
but idle crash

can you help me ? I'm beginning with python

regards


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Tkinter-discuss mailing list
Tkinter-discuss <at> python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tkinter-discuss
Guido Carballo-Guerrero | 15 Jul 2011 13:10

Re: Tkinter-discuss Digest, Vol 89, Issue 5

George;

I haven't install python 3.1, and as far as I knew, 3.1 was a little bit different than 2.7 with respect to ttk, or maybe is python 3.2. By the way, why you're installing 3.1 instead of 3.2? You know, 3.2 is the latest version, maybe installing this version is easier, but any way, this is what I did to make 2.7 work with ttk:

1. download the source code and not the installer package
2. uncompress the file--the computer does this automatically for you
3. go where the package was uncompress using the terminal--oper a terminal, and type: ls ~/Downloads/python..., instead of the points write the name of the folder that was created when you uncompress the file you download
4. type the following commands one at a time and press enter for each command:

./configure --enable-universalsdk --enable-framework
make
make frameworkinstall

After this Python should be already install in your computer, and you should be able to use ttk. Remember that to import ttk on version 3.x you should do: import tkinter.ttk

I'm in the process of writing a tutorial of Python, maybe it can help you, this is the link:


Regards!

Guido

On Jul 15, 2011, at 7:00 AM, tkinter-discuss-request <at> python.org wrote:

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Today's Topics:

  1. Python3.1 mac os (Georges Arsouze)

From: Georges Arsouze <georges.arsouze <at> gmail.com>
Date: July 15, 2011 6:37:34 AM GMT-03:00
To: tkinter-discuss <at> python.org
Subject: [Tkinter-discuss] Python3.1 mac os


Hi
sorry for my poor english
1) I'm working on mac os  snow leopard 10.6 and python 3.1
I want to use the ttk and tix widgets

 I have an error message : require tile

On the mailing list i see

I think that it is probably much easier to install the tile extension 
for Tk-8.4 than upgrading Tcl/Tk and Python to Tk-8.5 . You can look 
for tile packages here: 
   http://sourceforge.net/projects/tktable/files/
and once tile is installed you can use ttk just as if you had Tk-8.5 . 

I hope this helps 

Michael 

What can i do for installing tile ?

2)I try pyhon 3.2 from activate state
Tcl/tk is in version 5
but idle crash

can you help me ? I'm beginning with python

regards




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Tkinter-discuss mailing list
Tkinter-discuss <at> python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tkinter-discuss

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Michael Lange | 15 Jul 2011 19:36
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Re: tkFileDialog.askdirectory() not resizable in Windows

Hi Lynn,

Thus spoketh Lynn Oliver <raycores <at> gmail.com> 
unto us on Tue, 12 Jul 2011 12:34:21 -0700:

> Using Python versions 2.6.6 or 2.7.1, the tkFileDialog.askdirectory()
> dialog box is resizable in OS X but not on WinXP or Win7.
> tkFileDialog.askopenfilename() is resizable in both environments.
> 
> Is there a way to work around this?
> 

I think on windows tk uses native dialogs, so I don't think there is a
way to change this.

Regards

Michael

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