Carl Friedrich Bolz | 2 Aug 2005 22:25
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day 7: winding down

Hi PyPy-Dev!

Some quit notes about Sunday, the 7th and last day of the sprint. In
general it was sort of a lazy day where we reveled in the success of the
previous night ;-).

The day was started with an extensive breakfast in the sun. After that
Alex (from the Trillke-Gut) brought bows and arrows outside and gave us
a short introduction to archery. We spent some time trying it (and lost
four arrows in the proccess).

- Holger and Armin worked on refactoring and improving the compiling
infrastructure which acquired quite a lot of cruft over time. The
goal was to be able to use the compiled PyPy as a stand-alone
executable and not just a extension module to CPython (note that this
extension module is independent from CPython, we use CPython only to
call the entry point).

- Samuele and Carl Friedrich managed to write a test for the wrong
exception behaviour. Additionally they fixed a wrong graph
transformation where we ended up with an empty block with exception
handling. This gets now optimized away (the non-exceptional link is
taken).

- Richard stole tests from genc and made most of them work on genllvm.
He added support for unicode and implemented missing mathematical
operations. Additionally he implemented arrays of void (which are
basically ints because they still have a length field) which occur in
strange situation (like a list of Nones).

(Continue reading)

Christian Tismer | 3 Aug 2005 05:45
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PyPy broken! What's up?

Hi Friends,

in Hildesheim, I struggled for many hours to get my new marshal
module to compile and integrate. Finally, after removing all
problematic things where the annotator or the rtyper complained
about, I figured out that the current PyPy SVN version did
not compile at all.

Today, I tried again, after I brought marshal some quality levels
further. Still, PyPy does not translate, neither on Windows ( with
my patches of course) nor on Debian Linux.

The property to be translatable to a C binary is much more
valuable than it is treated. I would really like to see some
notation of that, like tagging a PyPy version as translatable.
I think we are lacking something, here.

Due to this fact, I will now carelessly check marshal in,
without disabling it. This has cost Samuele and me way too many
hours, although I figured out that PyPy was not translatable
at all, at that time. (Yes, we had many bugs and removed them).

Please, I want a principal decision about this. Either breaking
PyPy must be forbidden, or check-ins must be tagged whether they
do compile or not. Random results about this are not acceptable
for me, because this takes very much time.

- chris

--

-- 
(Continue reading)

holger krekel | 3 Aug 2005 10:07
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Re: PyPy broken! What's up?

Hi Chris, 

On Wed, Aug 03, 2005 at 05:45 +0200, Christian Tismer wrote:
> in Hildesheim, I struggled for many hours to get my new marshal
> module to compile and integrate. Finally, after removing all
> problematic things where the annotator or the rtyper complained
> about, I figured out that the current PyPy SVN version did
> not compile at all.
> 
> Today, I tried again, after I brought marshal some quality levels
> further. Still, PyPy does not translate, neither on Windows ( with
> my patches of course) nor on Debian Linux.

I tried to translate yesterday afternoon (on linux) and 
it worked.  From looking at the commits today i guess 
that the integration of the _sre module triggered 
some problems (which i haven't analysed yet). 

If i leave out the _sre module but leave the marshal 
included then it fails as well. 

If i leave out the _sre and marshal module and 
inhibit importing of the marshal multimethod 
in std/model.py then PyPy translates.  So 
i committed changes along these lines to make
the default trunk translate again: Revision 15538 
should be translateable (on linux). 

> The property to be translatable to a C binary is much more
> valuable than it is treated. I would really like to see some
(Continue reading)

Christian Tismer | 3 Aug 2005 14:47
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Re: PyPy broken! What's up?

Hi Holger

> We all want robust translation.  But it's irritating that 
> you seem to take the position of a frustrated PyPy customer
> although you are part of the very developing group that tries
> to bring PyPy to an alpha stage.  

Of course I was frustrated.
I never got PyPy to compile on Windows, yet, and I need to
get my code in, no time to continue right now.
Well, the hope was to not to have to disable marshal, for that
I wanted to use a translatable version.
Found out way too late that the version I got on Sunday evening
was already broken.

I generally feel liable for my own bugs and want to fix
them. Right now, I can't even tell what my bugs are.

ciao - chris

--

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(Continue reading)

holger krekel | 3 Aug 2005 20:11
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pypy-sync meeting 4th August 1pm

Hi pypy-dev, 

we've had three so called 'pypy-sync' meetings already
on the last thursdays.  The minutes are to be found 
under http://codespeak.net/svn/pypy/extradoc/minute
However, they have so far been only announced on internal
channels and only some of the minutes went to pypy-dev. 
If i remember correctly. 

This post is to announce the pypy-sync meeting for tomorrow
(thursday 4th August) 1pm.  The meeting is open for all active
developers and closed to lurkers (which can read the
minutes afterwards).  The duration is capped at 30 minutes. 
We did manage to conclude always in time so far.  The agenda
always has a fixed part and a variable part with "topics of
the week".  I guess we somewhat expect from EU funded
developers to attend the meeting (or provide info off-line) 
but for all others it's a complete matter of their free choice. 

So what is the purpose of the pypy-sync meeting?  
It's an XP-style meeting that serves to synchronize
development work and let everybody know who is 
working on what.  It also serves as a decision 
board of the PyPy developers.  If discussions 
last too long and decisions cannot be reached 
they are delegated to a sub-group or get postponed. 

Here is the agenda (and if you come, please try to come 
in time, there is no waiting and attendants are
expected to not walk away during the 30 minutes). 
(Continue reading)

holger krekel | 3 Aug 2005 20:42
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Re: pypy-sync meeting 4th August 1pm

On Wed, Aug 03, 2005 at 20:11 +0200, holger krekel wrote:
> This post is to announce the pypy-sync meeting for tomorrow
> (thursday 4th August) 1pm.  

I should probably have mentioned that the 30 minute meeting
takes place on #pypy-sync on irc.freenode.net. 

    holger
_______________________________________________
pypy-dev <at> codespeak.net
http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev

holger krekel | 4 Aug 2005 10:02
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winding down and getting interactive

Hi all, 

On Tue, Aug 02, 2005 at 22:25 +0200, Carl Friedrich Bolz wrote:
> Hi PyPy-Dev!
> 
> Some quit notes about Sunday, the 7th and last day of the sprint. In
> general it was sort of a lazy day where we reveled in the success of the
> previous night ;-).

You can also see some views on this nicely described 
"winding-down" in my finalized picture set found here: 

    http://codespeak.net/~hpk/hildesheim2-sprint-www/

Moreover, yesterday Samuele managed to fix one remaining problem 
(see https://codespeak.net/issue/pypy-dev/issue106) that
was preventing us from executing "import code ; code.interact()" 
with the translated PyPy: a self-contained interactive prompt!  
Of course, we are still missing lots of builtin modules. 
And of course, it's slow because lots of stuff is running
at applevel and we are not tackling optimizations yet. 

So at least on linux platforms you may have success checking
out the latest dist, going to pypy/translator/goal and executing
'sh runtranslate.sh'. This should after around 30 minutes result
in a PyPy extension module (it's not using any CPython stuff, 
it's just still an extension module for historic integration reasons)
and 'app_example.py' should get executed.  This should result 
in the mentioned interactive prompt.  

(Continue reading)

holger krekel | 4 Aug 2005 20:47
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Re: pypy-sync meeting 4th August 1pm

On Wed, Aug 03, 2005 at 20:11 +0200, holger krekel wrote:
> Hi pypy-dev, 
> 
> we've had three so called 'pypy-sync' meetings already
> on the last thursdays.  The minutes are to be found 
> under http://codespeak.net/svn/pypy/extradoc/minute

here are the minutes of today's pypy-sync meeting: 

    http://codespeak.net/pypy/index.cgi?extradoc/minute/pypy-sync-08-04-2005.html

or find it pasted below as a text version.  (It's still
possible that the pypy-sync get correction commits by someone,
though). 

cheers, 

    holger

=============================================
pypy-sync developer meeting 4th August 2005
=============================================

Attendees::
         Samuele Pedroni, 
         Adrien Di Mascio, 
         Carl Friedrich Bolz, 
         Armin Rigo, 
         Samuele Pedroni,
         Anders Lehmann,
(Continue reading)

Christian Tismer | 6 Aug 2005 12:56
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enabling marshal

Some small issues which came up when I enabled marshal:
-------------------------------------------------------

a dict that never gets a value does not create an
emptydict, but rtyper crashes. This happens easily,
when code is disabled, temporally.

os.write does not know that it returns a nonnegative int.
I think we should have a way to express this instead of
putting assertions.

A funny observation on stringobject: The RTyper did not
know how to handle mul_str_times. That should imply that
marshal pulled this code in, what I don't understand,
because I thought all multimethods would be instantiated.
I had to initialize the buffer list in the exception case.
But later on, I removed this hack and it still worked.
Later it was needed, again, so I finally kept it with XXX.
Strange interaction, must have been a side effect.

I would love to use rpython dicts of integers for caching
ids of objects. Is this hard, or bad?
Should I use a real dict, instead?

Addendum: I don't really see why we have more than one
dict implementation at all. In a way, they all share
the same basic layout. How hard would it be to factor
this out and create the dicts we need, regardless if
we are doing rtyper dicts or applevel dicts? It could
be possible to do this with specialization.
(Continue reading)

Ben.Young | 9 Aug 2005 10:32

Re: Build and test failures

Thats great news. Congratuations to all of you!

Cheers,
Ben

Armin Rigo <arigo <at> tunes.org> wrote on 31/07/2005 20:24:12:

> Hi Ben,
> 
> On Fri, Jul 22, 2005 at 09:18:56AM +0100, Ben.Young <at> risk.sungard.com 
wrote:
> > So is a family of classes the set of any classes that can be assigned 
to a 
> > particular instance variable, even if they dont share a common base?
> > 
> > e.g:
> > 
> > class A:
> >         pass
> > 
> > class B:
> >         pass
> > 
> > foo = somebool ? A() : B()
> > 
> > Would it be simpler to require that all instances must at least be 
> > annotated to a common base, and fail to annotate if a not-base-defined 

> > method is called on the instance. Or is that really what you are 
already 
(Continue reading)


Gmane