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Roger Serwy | 12 Dec 2011 16:59
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Fixing and Improving IDLE

IDLE Developers,

By my count there are over 110 valid open issues against IDLE, some 
minor and others major. Let's try to make that number smaller.

Here is a partial list of issues that have working patches:

3573    IDLE hangs when passing invalid command line args 
(directory(ies) instead of file(s))
5219    IDLE/Tkinter: edit win stops updating when tooltip is active
6698    IDLE no longer opens only an edit window when configured to do so
6699    IDLE: Warn user about overwriting a file that has a newer 
version on filesystem
7136    Idle File Menu Option Improvement
7676    IDLE shell shouldn't use TABs
8515    idle "Run Module" (F5) does not set __file__ variable
8900    IDLE crashes if Preference set to At Startup -> Open Edit Window
13039   IDLE editor: shell-like behaviour on line starting with ">>>"
13179   IDLE uses common tkinter variables across all editor windows
13495   IDLE: Regression - Two ColorDelegator instances loaded
13506   IDLE sys.path does not contain Current Working Directory

Can these patches be applied? I understand that there will be need for 
some discussion, but we should try to avoid the bike shed problem.

Not surprisingly, there are a lot of "duplicate" bug reports. Some 
issues deal with invalid key bindings and should have a common solution: 
4765, 5707, 6739, 11437, 12387, 13071. (IdleX already has a work-around 
for these issues.) Other issues deal with permission error handling of 
configHandler.py: 4625, 8231, 9404, 9925.
(Continue reading)

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Sean Wolfe | 12 Dec 2011 20:30
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Re: Fixing and Improving IDLE

Nice to see this mail! I'm a big fan of IDLE though and it's nice to
see. I'm not really a IDLE developer yet but I'm boning up on tkinter
to try and help out in the future... maybe in time to help out with
this.

Did you guys catch this article? I think so cause there are a lot of
comments. Anyhow, I dig a lot of the suggestions.
http://inventwithpython.com/blog/2011/11/29/the-things-i-hate-about-idle-that-i-wish-someone-would-fix/

On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 12:59 PM, Roger Serwy <roger.serwy <at> gmail.com> wrote:
> IDLE Developers,
>
> By my count there are over 110 valid open issues against IDLE, some minor
> and others major. Let's try to make that number smaller.
>
> Here is a partial list of issues that have working patches:
>
> 3573    IDLE hangs when passing invalid command line args (directory(ies)
> instead of file(s))
> 5219    IDLE/Tkinter: edit win stops updating when tooltip is active
> 6698    IDLE no longer opens only an edit window when configured to do so
> 6699    IDLE: Warn user about overwriting a file that has a newer version on
> filesystem
> 7136    Idle File Menu Option Improvement
> 7676    IDLE shell shouldn't use TABs
> 8515    idle "Run Module" (F5) does not set __file__ variable
> 8900    IDLE crashes if Preference set to At Startup -> Open Edit Window
> 13039   IDLE editor: shell-like behaviour on line starting with ">>>"
> 13179   IDLE uses common tkinter variables across all editor windows
> 13495   IDLE: Regression - Two ColorDelegator instances loaded
(Continue reading)

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Roger Serwy | 12 Dec 2011 21:16
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Re: Fixing and Improving IDLE

I am glad that you are willing to help with fixing IDLE. Tkinter 
experience is not a strong prerequisite; you can contribute simply by 
testing patches already provided and giving your feedback. With more 
reviewers we can iron-out any unanticipated side-effects.

I can offer what I know about IDLE's internals if you or anyone else 
needs it (while it is still fresh in my memory) .

Al Sweigart's article discusses several important shortcomings of IDLE. 
Nick Coghlan created a meta-issue for it: #13504.  Some of those issues 
are actually fixed in IdleX.

On 12/12/2011 01:30 PM, Sean Wolfe wrote:
> Nice to see this mail! I'm a big fan of IDLE though and it's nice to
> see. I'm not really a IDLE developer yet but I'm boning up on tkinter
> to try and help out in the future... maybe in time to help out with
> this.
>
> Did you guys catch this article? I think so cause there are a lot of
> comments. Anyhow, I dig a lot of the suggestions.
> http://inventwithpython.com/blog/2011/11/29/the-things-i-hate-about-idle-that-i-wish-someone-would-fix/
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 12:59 PM, Roger Serwy<roger.serwy <at> gmail.com>  wrote:
>> IDLE Developers,
>>
>> By my count there are over 110 valid open issues against IDLE, some minor
>> and others major. Let's try to make that number smaller.
>>
>> Here is a partial list of issues that have working patches:
(Continue reading)

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Sean Wolfe | 12 Dec 2011 21:58
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Re: Fixing and Improving IDLE

Got it. Let me read up on idle hacking and familiarize myself with the
bug tracker and I'll get back with you.

What's idleX? Funny, I was thinking down the line of making my own
fork of idle and calling it idleXL . Haha.

On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 5:16 PM, Roger Serwy <roger.serwy <at> gmail.com> wrote:
> I am glad that you are willing to help with fixing IDLE. Tkinter experience
> is not a strong prerequisite; you can contribute simply by testing patches
> already provided and giving your feedback. With more reviewers we can
> iron-out any unanticipated side-effects.
>
> I can offer what I know about IDLE's internals if you or anyone else needs
> it (while it is still fresh in my memory) .
>
> Al Sweigart's article discusses several important shortcomings of IDLE. Nick
> Coghlan created a meta-issue for it: #13504.  Some of those issues are
> actually fixed in IdleX.
>
>
>
> On 12/12/2011 01:30 PM, Sean Wolfe wrote:
>>
>> Nice to see this mail! I'm a big fan of IDLE though and it's nice to
>> see. I'm not really a IDLE developer yet but I'm boning up on tkinter
>> to try and help out in the future... maybe in time to help out with
>> this.
>>
>> Did you guys catch this article? I think so cause there are a lot of
>> comments. Anyhow, I dig a lot of the suggestions.
(Continue reading)

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Roger Serwy | 12 Dec 2011 22:04
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Re: Fixing and Improving IDLE

IdleX - http://idlex.sourceforge.net

It's a collection of extensions and bug fixes for stock IDLE. It is not 
a fork as much as a wrapper.

On 12/12/2011 02:58 PM, Sean Wolfe wrote:
> Got it. Let me read up on idle hacking and familiarize myself with the
> bug tracker and I'll get back with you.
>
> What's idleX? Funny, I was thinking down the line of making my own
> fork of idle and calling it idleXL . Haha.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 5:16 PM, Roger Serwy<roger.serwy <at> gmail.com>  wrote:
>> I am glad that you are willing to help with fixing IDLE. Tkinter experience
>> is not a strong prerequisite; you can contribute simply by testing patches
>> already provided and giving your feedback. With more reviewers we can
>> iron-out any unanticipated side-effects.
>>
>> I can offer what I know about IDLE's internals if you or anyone else needs
>> it (while it is still fresh in my memory) .
>>
>> Al Sweigart's article discusses several important shortcomings of IDLE. Nick
>> Coghlan created a meta-issue for it: #13504.  Some of those issues are
>> actually fixed in IdleX.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/12/2011 01:30 PM, Sean Wolfe wrote:
(Continue reading)

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Sean Wolfe | 12 Dec 2011 22:07
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Re: Fixing and Improving IDLE

Ok, you know now, I remember seeing this. It has a lot of the stuff I
want to see also, like tabbed windows and reordering. Cool!

On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 6:04 PM, Roger Serwy <roger.serwy <at> gmail.com> wrote:
> IdleX - http://idlex.sourceforge.net
>
> It's a collection of extensions and bug fixes for stock IDLE. It is not a
> fork as much as a wrapper.
>
>
> On 12/12/2011 02:58 PM, Sean Wolfe wrote:
>>
>> Got it. Let me read up on idle hacking and familiarize myself with the
>> bug tracker and I'll get back with you.
>>
>> What's idleX? Funny, I was thinking down the line of making my own
>> fork of idle and calling it idleXL . Haha.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 5:16 PM, Roger Serwy<roger.serwy <at> gmail.com>
>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> I am glad that you are willing to help with fixing IDLE. Tkinter
>>> experience
>>> is not a strong prerequisite; you can contribute simply by testing
>>> patches
>>> already provided and giving your feedback. With more reviewers we can
>>> iron-out any unanticipated side-effects.
>>>
(Continue reading)

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Tal Einat | 14 Dec 2011 15:05
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Re: Fixing and Improving IDLE

On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 10:58 PM, Sean Wolfe <ether.joe <at> gmail.com> wrote:

What's idleX? Funny, I was thinking down the line of making my own
fork of idle and calling it idleXL . Haha.

Please, if possible, avoid creating yet another fork of IDLE!

History has shown that it is very difficult to merge features from a fork back into IDLE.

Also, IDLE isn't getting too much developer attention as it is (except for Roger and Nick who have been doing a great job recently!), so it would be great to have your efforts contribute to IDLE directly, in coordination with the few current developers.

- Tal Einat
_______________________________________________
IDLE-dev mailing list
IDLE-dev <at> python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/idle-dev
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Sean Wolfe | 14 Dec 2011 19:50
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multiple Python versions and testing

Looking over the bug list for IDLE, it looks like it will be useful
for me to be running multiple Python versions, to be able to work on /
test various versions. I personally haven't made the switch yet as my
two favorite Pythonic things, Django and Pygame, are still in the 2.x
world. Im currently running 2.7 for my personal projects. That being
said though, I'm happy to give the 3.x world a shot.
Is there anything I should keep in mind running multiple versions?
Just make sure my PYTHONPATH and IDLEPATH, plus basic system path to
my python binary, are where I want them? I'm assuming as idle devs you
guys are running multiple versions. Any gotchas or special things I
should be looking for? Anything that might invalidate testing?

--

-- 
A musician must make music, an artist must paint, a poet must write,
if he is to be ultimately at peace with himself.
- Abraham Maslow
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Terry Reedy | 15 Dec 2011 01:01
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Favicon

Re: multiple Python versions and testing

On 12/14/2011 1:50 PM, Sean Wolfe wrote:
> Looking over the bug list for IDLE, it looks like it will be useful
> for me to be running multiple Python versions, to be able to work on /
> test various versions. I personally haven't made the switch yet as my
> two favorite Pythonic things, Django and Pygame, are still in the 2.x
> world. Im currently running 2.7 for my personal projects. That being
> said though, I'm happy to give the 3.x world a shot.
> Is there anything I should keep in mind running multiple versions?
> Just make sure my PYTHONPATH and IDLEPATH, plus basic system path to
> my python binary, are where I want them? I'm assuming as idle devs you
> guys are running multiple versions. Any gotchas or special things I
> should be looking for? Anything that might invalidate testing?

On Windows, multiple versions are no problem except that the icons are 
labelled the same for each. Multiple versions of Python and IDLE running 
at the same time is ok.

On *nix, I read that one should be careful to use altinstall so as to 
not clobber the system python, which may be used by system-dependent 
utilities.

That said, even testing bugs and patch only on 2.7 is helpful, 
expecially if no one else has.

--

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy
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phil jones | 20 Dec 2011 13:58
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Re: Fixing and Improving IDLE

On the subject of forking and remerging etc. where's the IDLE code?

Would it be a good idea to move it to GitHub or BitBucket under git or hg?

Also, I'd suggest that if there's a page with information for
developers, someone links to it from http://wiki.python.org/moin/IDLE

regards

phil

On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 2:05 PM, Tal Einat <taleinat <at> gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 10:58 PM, Sean Wolfe <ether.joe <at> gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> What's idleX? Funny, I was thinking down the line of making my own
>> fork of idle and calling it idleXL . Haha.
>
>
> Please, if possible, avoid creating yet another fork of IDLE!
>
> History has shown that it is very difficult to merge features from a fork
> back into IDLE.
>
> Also, IDLE isn't getting too much developer attention as it is (except for
> Roger and Nick who have been doing a great job recently!), so it would be
> great to have your efforts contribute to IDLE directly, in coordination with
> the few current developers.
>
> - Tal Einat
>
> _______________________________________________
> IDLE-dev mailing list
> IDLE-dev <at> python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/idle-dev
>
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Gmane