headers
Terry Reedy | 1 Apr 2011 06:28
Picon
Favicon

Re: IDLE Extension - Prompt goes missing

On 3/31/2011 2:13 AM, Tal Einat wrote:

> See Lib/idlelib/extend.txt for details on extensions.

Thank you. I read it but did not find it completely clear.
If I figure out what I have missed, I will try to suggest a patch ;-).
I need to look at examples more, first.

--

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy
Permalink | Reply | 1 comment |
headers
Terry Reedy | 1 Apr 2011 06:40
Picon
Favicon

Re: IDLE Extension - Prompt goes missing

On 3/31/2011 10:10 AM, phelix wrote:
>
> ok, finally I got it.
>
> I fell for a bug that Noam Raphael pointed out and supplied a patch for
> eight years ago (http://old.nabble.com/Fix-freezes!-td1182996.html). It is
> still present in Idle 3.2. I guess IDLE development really is slow =) - this
> must change!

That refers to an issue in the IDLEfork tracker filed after the last 
independent release of IDLEfork. I am not sure when IDLEfork was merged 
into trunk, but I suspect that a few legitimate bug reports were not 
copied over. This one, by Bruce Sherwood, may or may not be on the 
current tracker, but it is on my personal todo list:

"Not sure whether this should be a bug report or a feature
request, but it would be really nice if a file save would by
default supply the important .py extension. Without it,
colorizing doesn't work, which is confusing to people.
And of course there are other good reasons for wanting
the .py extension on Python files."

--

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy
Permalink | Reply | 0 comments |
headers
Tal Einat | 1 Apr 2011 14:56
Picon
Gravatar

Re: IDLE Extension - Prompt goes missing

On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 7:28 AM, Terry Reedy wrote:
On 3/31/2011 2:13 AM, Tal Einat wrote:

See Lib/idlelib/extend.txt for details on extensions.

Thank you. I read it but did not find it completely clear.
If I figure out what I have missed, I will try to suggest a patch ;-).
I need to look at examples more, first.

Note that installing a new extension (e.g. from PyPI) is a hassle, so new extensions die quickly if they aren't integrated into IDLE.

I think extensions would be much more useful given a config dialog for configuring each extension separately. My patch for this has been sitting around for years: issue3068.

Admittedly I was given the go-ahead to make such changes to IDLE directly and commit them, but unfortunately I haven't found the time required for this since.

- Tal
_______________________________________________
IDLE-dev mailing list
IDLE-dev <at> python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/idle-dev
Permalink | Reply | 0 comments |
headers
phelix | 13 Apr 2011 00:35
Picon

AutoCompletePlus Extension - some Rope features, self. completion


Hi!

I made an extension to extend the auto completion. Probably it still has a
couple of bugs in it but mostly it works but I want to show you guys early
and get some feedback. To be honest, the whole thing was harder than I
thought and I had to try some different strategies. Though IDLE is easy to
modify/extend there is some tough stuff going on in there.

What does it do? 
* It adds auto completion for "self" by adding to the completion list ( <at> Tal:
you were right, this is much better). If there is an instance of the class
defined it uses that.
* If rope is installed it adds rope completions for the current file. ( <at> Tal:
again, thanks for the suggestion)

I still wonder if / how to add rope completion for the whole package. I
could probably set the rope project folder to the folder of the current
file. An alternative would be to add a magic comment.

Tested quickly with python 2.6, 2.7, 3.2, rope 0.9.2

Please check it out at  http://10pulse.com/idle http://10pulse.com/idle/ 
and let me know what you think.

=Phelix=

--

-- 
View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/AutoCompletePlus-Extension---some-Rope-features%2C-self.-completion-tp31383404p31383404.html
Sent from the Python - idle-dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Permalink | Reply | 0 comments |
headers
phelix | 13 Apr 2011 01:07
Picon

Suggestions idle-dev


Over the last couple of months I have collected a couple of small but imho
important modifications / bugs to make working with IDLE smoother. But I
would prefer very much to discuss these in a more active environment.

Taking part in IDLE-development seems very hard, though it really does not
have to be. On the code-side everything is fine but marketing-wise things
are not so good. Just take this mailing list. I am in my thirties and to me
it looks like from the stone age. Who wants his eMail-account spammed with a
mailing list? I would prefer a regular forum and I think a lot of people
would, especially the younger ones.

Also this list is hard to find. It is not mentioned anywhere on the
idle-homepage and not very obvious in the program.

Compare the spyder homepage and the idle-homepage:
http://packages.python.org/spyder/ http://packages.python.org/spyder/ 
http://docs.python.org/library/idle.html
http://docs.python.org/library/idle.html 
I am not talking about fancy graphics but only missing information.

Why not display something in the splash-screen like: idle development is
easy, contribute at ...

I really like working with IDLE and it being coded in Python and easy to
modify and all but seing how slow it is improving makes me sad. Especially
the small things count for a smooth workflow.

Very many people start out with IDLE and it is a missed chance to give them
an unsmooth IDE.

best,

=Phelix=

--

-- 
View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/Suggestions-idle-dev-tp31383544p31383544.html
Sent from the Python - idle-dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Permalink | Reply | 12 comments |
headers
phil jones | 13 Apr 2011 01:35
Picon
Gravatar

Re: Suggestions idle-dev

I agree. It would be nice to get into hacking on Idle, but I've never
really found my way into it.

A couple of things. Is there a source-code repository on Github (or
some Mercurial equivalent) where everyone can see the
work-in-progress?

Is IDLE still part of the Python standard package? I use Ubuntu and I
always find I have to install Idle separately from Python. I don't
know if this is a Ubuntu perversity or whether Idle is now a
stand-alone thing. Given that people always seem to have problems
getting patches into the standard distribution maybe stand-alone would
be better. But who would make this decision?

I don't have a problem with a mailing list. But I agree, a URL to an
idle-dev central (place for developers hang out with links to this
mailing list, the repository, IRC etc.) would be great.

phil

On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 12:07 AM, phelix <nabble <at> traction.de> wrote:
>
> Over the last couple of months I have collected a couple of small but imho
> important modifications / bugs to make working with IDLE smoother. But I
> would prefer very much to discuss these in a more active environment.
>
> Taking part in IDLE-development seems very hard, though it really does not
> have to be. On the code-side everything is fine but marketing-wise things
> are not so good. Just take this mailing list. I am in my thirties and to me
> it looks like from the stone age. Who wants his eMail-account spammed with a
> mailing list? I would prefer a regular forum and I think a lot of people
> would, especially the younger ones.
>
> Also this list is hard to find. It is not mentioned anywhere on the
> idle-homepage and not very obvious in the program.
>
> Compare the spyder homepage and the idle-homepage:
> http://packages.python.org/spyder/ http://packages.python.org/spyder/
> http://docs.python.org/library/idle.html
> http://docs.python.org/library/idle.html
> I am not talking about fancy graphics but only missing information.
>
> Why not display something in the splash-screen like: idle development is
> easy, contribute at ...
>
> I really like working with IDLE and it being coded in Python and easy to
> modify and all but seing how slow it is improving makes me sad. Especially
> the small things count for a smooth workflow.
>
> Very many people start out with IDLE and it is a missed chance to give them
> an unsmooth IDE.
>
> best,
>
> =Phelix=
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/Suggestions-idle-dev-tp31383544p31383544.html
> Sent from the Python - idle-dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> IDLE-dev mailing list
> IDLE-dev <at> python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/idle-dev
>
Permalink | Reply | 8 comments |
headers
phil jones | 13 Apr 2011 01:59
Picon
Gravatar

Talking of updates to IDLE

Did the VIDLE changes and fixes ever get back into normal IDLE?

phil
Permalink | Reply | 9 comments |
headers
Bruce Sherwood | 13 Apr 2011 02:16
Picon
Favicon

Re: Talking of updates to IDLE

As far as I know, no. It's a good example of the very slow pace of
making changes. The VIDLE work was completed by Guilherme Polo in the
2009 Google Summer of Code, in a Python-community sanctioned project,
and Guido has given his blessing to the changes, but the process for
getting changes into the standard IDLE distribution remains opaque and
glacial. I gather it isn't anyone's "fault", and people are busy, but
somehow IDLE is an orphan in comparison with other aspects of Python.

Bruce Sherwood

On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 5:59 PM, phil jones <interstar <at> gmail.com> wrote:
> Did the VIDLE changes and fixes ever get back into normal IDLE?
>
>
> phil
> _______________________________________________
> IDLE-dev mailing list
> IDLE-dev <at> python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/idle-dev
>
Permalink | Reply | 7 comments |
headers
Tal Einat | 13 Apr 2011 02:23
Picon
Gravatar

Re: Talking of updates to IDLE

Unfortunately, no.

I volunteered to do so about six months ago, but ended up not be able to free the time required.

If anyone else wants to do this, go ahead, I haven't even made any significant progress :(

On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 2:59 AM, phil jones <interstar <at> gmail.com> wrote:
Did the VIDLE changes and fixes ever get back into normal IDLE?


phil
_______________________________________________
IDLE-dev mailing list
IDLE-dev <at> python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/idle-dev

_______________________________________________
IDLE-dev mailing list
IDLE-dev <at> python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/idle-dev
Permalink | Reply | 0 comments |
headers
Ned Deily | 13 Apr 2011 03:06
Picon
Favicon
Gravatar

Re: Suggestions idle-dev

In article <BANLkTinHUC8q=FCo7KvCAEARf+Q5qHHXEQ <at> mail.gmail.com>,
 phil jones <interstar <at> gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 12:07 AM, phelix <nabble <at> traction.de> wrote:
> > Over the last couple of months I have collected a couple of small but imho
> > important modifications / bugs to make working with IDLE smoother. But I
> > would prefer very much to discuss these in a more active environment.
> >
> > Taking part in IDLE-development seems very hard, though it really does not
> > have to be. On the code-side everything is fine but marketing-wise things
> > are not so good. Just take this mailing list. I am in my thirties and to me
> > it looks like from the stone age. Who wants his eMail-account spammed with 
> > a
> > mailing list? I would prefer a regular forum and I think a lot of people
> > would, especially the younger ones.
> >
> > Also this list is hard to find. It is not mentioned anywhere on the
> > idle-homepage and not very obvious in the program.

The IDLE-dev mailing list is one of many hosted by python.org.  See 
http://www.python.org/community/lists/ for the link to the complete list 
here:  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo

If you would prefer other formats, the mailing list is mirrored 
elsewhere.  In particular, gmane.org offers a bi-directional mirror of 
the list is several formats, including web-based blog and NNTP newsfeeds:

   http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.idle

> A couple of things. Is there a source-code repository on Github (or
> some Mercurial equivalent) where everyone can see the
> work-in-progress?

IDLE is part of the Python standard library.  It resides in Lib/idlelib 
with the Python source tree.  The "default" branch of the tree is where 
all feature work happens; it will be what is released as Python 3.3.  
You can view the source here:
    http://hg.python.org/cpython/file/default/Lib/idlelib

The code for other branches can be viewed here:
    http://hg.python.org/cpython/branches
where 3.2 is what is in progress for 3.2.1, 3.1 for 3.1.4 (likely the 
last bug fix release for 3.1), and 2.7 for 2.7.2.  Older branches are 
closed except for critical security fixes.

There is a newly written Python Developer's Guide which describes the 
whole process of how to develop and contribute fixes and features for 
Python in general.  It applies to IDLE as well:

   http://docs.python.org/devguide/

> Is IDLE still part of the Python standard package? I use Ubuntu and I
> always find I have to install Idle separately from Python. I don't
> know if this is a Ubuntu perversity or whether Idle is now a
> stand-alone thing. Given that people always seem to have problems
> getting patches into the standard distribution maybe stand-alone would
> be better. But who would make this decision?

Some distributors of Python, like Ubuntu and Debian, choose to break out 
IDLE and other parts of the standard library into separate packages.  
Other distributions, like those from python.org/downloads, do not.  
Presumably, the rationale for making IDLE a separate package might be 
because of its dependency on Tcl/Tk.  Technically, IDLE uses the Python 
standard library Tkinter module which is dependent on Tcl/Tk.

IMO, that dependency on Tcl/Tk is both IDLE's strength and weakness.  (I 
should state that these are my opinions based on working on various 
recent fixes for IDLE on Mac OS X and not so much as an IDLE user.) The 
plus is that Tk is implemented on many platforms and thus gives IDLE and 
other Tkinter-based graphical apps high-level platform independence.   
But the weakness is that Tcl/Tk itself is aging and does not always 
provide a native look-and-feel.  Or there are significant compromises 
made on a platform to maintain that platform independence.  (The various 
Mac OS X "native" Tcl/Tk implementations are a prime example.)  Longer 
term, a replacement for IDLE using a more modern GUI interface would be 
an interesting project.   That really means finding a replacement for 
Tkinter in the standard library.  One of the most promising efforts for 
that is Greg Ewing's PyGUI project:

   http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/greg.ewing/python_gui/

I'd love to see someone try to reimplement IDLE using it.  That would go 
a long way towards helping to "get the library and its documentation 
included in the core Python distribution", a stated goal of PyGUI.

In the mean time, both IDLE and Tkinter are underrepresented in the 
Python development community.  They both could use more help.  Your 
patches are welcome.   The best thing to do is to follow the standard 
process outlined in the devguide and submit patches through the standard 
bug tracker.

Another big, big help would be to update and test submitted patches on 
the various Tk platforms: Windows, Unix X-windows, Mac OS X Aqua.  
Reporting the results on the bug tracker can help to move things along.  
I, for one, would be much more likely to commit a fix if there were 
independent confirmation that it is up-to-date and works as documented 
(which implies some sort of documentation, too).

And yet another big area is documentation for IDLE.  Currently, it is 
very sparse, between IDLE's build-in help file and the standard docs.  
The source for both are included in the source tree so doc patches for 
them would also be very welcome.

At the moment, there are no tests for IDLE that I am aware of, at least 
in the standard library.  This is a big problem for developers (like me) 
when wanting to add fixes or features.  Currently, there is no way to 
regression test fixes without time-consuming hit-or-miss manual testing 
which really needs to be done on at least what I think of as the three 
major variants (Windows, OS X, X11).  Few people have the know-how or 
setup to do that.  Python has a good and growing test base but very 
little at the moment for GUI testing.  An IDLE test base would be a huge 
step forward in that area.

So, lots of ideas and possibilities.  As with most all-volunteer open 
source projects, what happens is really up to those of us who step up 
and dig in.

--

-- 
 Ned Deily,
 nad <at> acm.org
Permalink | Reply | 7 comments |

Gmane