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Al Chou | 4 Mar 2005 23:49
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TDD of (ultimately) GUI app built atop a framework via plug-ins?


I want to build an application that should have a GUI.  I want to build it atop
a framework like Eclipse or FreeRIDE that will allow me to essentially provide
the custom functionality I need by creating plug-ins for the framework.  The
app isn't an IDE or text editor, so I think I'm going to be stripping down the
framework to its core that supports plug-ins (e.g., start with Eclipse Platform
rather than Eclipse SDK) and building up from there.

I want to do TDD for this project, and I think the app should be usable via the
command line or some similar scripting interface in addition to its GUI.

Anyone out there have any experience or advice on how to approach such a
project?

Al

=====
Albert Davidson Chou

    Get answers to Mac questions at http://www.Mac-Mgrs.org/ .

 
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Phlip | 5 Mar 2005 01:18
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Re: [TFUI] TDD of (ultimately) GUI app built atop a framework via plug-ins?


Al Chou wrote:
> 
> I want to build an application that should have a GUI.  I want to build it atop
> a framework like Eclipse or FreeRIDE that will allow me to essentially provide
> the custom functionality I need by creating plug-ins for the framework.  The
> app isn't an IDE or text editor, so I think I'm going to be stripping down the
> framework to its core that supports plug-ins (e.g., start with Eclipse Platform
> rather than Eclipse SDK) and building up from there.

Well, /Contributing to Eclipse: Principles, Patterns, and Plugins/ by
Kent Beck, & Erich Gamma might possibly show how to TDD a plugin.
Unless if they fell off the wagon... ;-)

--

-- 
Phlip

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Phlip | 5 Mar 2005 05:40
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[TFUI] XML -> XSLT -> XHTML Nirvana


TFUI:

Since reading /XP for Web Projects/, I took on an in-house web site project.
Some of it was already written, so I was not able to apply WebXP's Prime
Directive everywhere.

WebXP's Prime Directive is that all HTML in your browser must come from
XSLT, supplying markup, and XML, supplying data. The book makes a powerful
case for using that transformation as the nucleus of a build system, as an
automated site map, and as one helluva big validation test. At all times, a
web site should present no broken links or related cruft.

To follow that directive, you always push your data into a data
representation, store this in XML, and transform it with XSLT to generate
the output HTML. WebXP implies ones entire browser experience must come
through this pipeline.

I take the PD one step further, and always generate XHTML, using this
mysterious concoction in the XLST:

  <xsl:output method="xml" media-type="text/html" standalone="no"
              omit-xml-declaration="yes" encoding="UTF-8" />

That permits XPath in the tests to query out and verify details of the
intermediate XHTML.

However, when aiming for the goal "only XSLT supplies markup", I cheat.
Faced with a short schedule and long feature list, and face with the absurd
complexities required to code a lowly 'if' statement inside XSLT, I move the
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Al Chou | 5 Mar 2005 07:04
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Re: [TFUI] TDD of (ultimately) GUI app built atop a framework via plug-ins?


--- Phlip <phlip2005@...> wrote:
> Al Chou wrote:
> > 
> > I want to build an application that should have a GUI.  I want to build it
> atop
> > a framework like Eclipse or FreeRIDE that will allow me to essentially
> provide
> > the custom functionality I need by creating plug-ins for the framework. 
> The
> > app isn't an IDE or text editor, so I think I'm going to be stripping down
> the
> > framework to its core that supports plug-ins (e.g., start with Eclipse
> Platform
> > rather than Eclipse SDK) and building up from there.
> 
> Well, /Contributing to Eclipse: Principles, Patterns, and Plugins/ by
> Kent Beck, & Erich Gamma might possibly show how to TDD a plugin.
> Unless if they fell off the wagon... ;-)

Thanks, Phlip.  That'll definitely be worth checking out.

Al

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Phlip | 5 Mar 2005 16:47
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Re: [TFUI] TDD of (ultimately) GUI app built atop a framework via plug-ins?


Al Chou wrote:

> > Well, /Contributing to Eclipse: Principles, Patterns, and Plugins/ by
> > Kent Beck, & Erich Gamma might possibly show how to TDD a plugin.
> > Unless if they fell off the wagon... ;-)
> 
> Thanks, Phlip.  That'll definitely be worth checking out.

Don't ask how a Javaphobe like me has the book, but...

...here we go. On page 91, it says "Test-Driven Plug-In Development".
It requires PDE JUnit, a JUnit extension designed for plugins. Then it
steps thru the architecture and the edits to start the ball rolling.

Gotta love authors who can make a narrative of a tedious development
session defy gravity like that!

--

-- 
Phlip

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Kevin Lawrence | 5 Mar 2005 17:00

Re: [TFUI] TDD of (ultimately) GUI app built atop a framework via plug-ins?


Phlip wrote:
> Al Chou wrote:
> 
> 
>>>Well, /Contributing to Eclipse: Principles, Patterns, and Plugins/ by
>>>Kent Beck, & Erich Gamma might possibly show how to TDD a plugin.
>>>Unless if they fell off the wagon... ;-)
>>
>>Thanks, Phlip.  That'll definitely be worth checking out.
> 
> 
> Don't ask how a Javaphobe like me has the book, but...
> 
> ...here we go. On page 91, it says "Test-Driven Plug-In Development".
> It requires PDE JUnit, a JUnit extension designed for plugins. Then it
> steps thru the architecture and the edits to start the ball rolling.
> 

> Gotta love authors who can make a narrative of a tedious development
> session defy gravity like that!
> 

They can defy gravity - but I can defy their rules... I am developing an 
eclipse plug-in in IntelliJ - so you don't absolutely need the PDE plug-in.

By the way, the book is outstanding in a teach-a-man-to-fish kind of 
way. I have it by my side right now.

Kevin
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Hugo Garcia | 5 Mar 2005 23:39
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[TFUI] Fit Testing and GUI Testing


Hi

I was wondering if anyone here was using Fit and if so... are you
tying the Fit test to the GUI testing? I am currently exploring this
issue and would appreciate any comments, suggestions or questions that
you may have.

Thanks

-H

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Hugo Garcia | 6 Mar 2005 02:07
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Re: [TFUI] TDD of (ultimately) GUI app built atop a framework via plug-ins?


On Fri, 4 Mar 2005 14:49:26 -0800 (PST), Al Chou
<hotfusionman@...> wrote:
> 
> I want to build an application that should have a GUI.  I want to build it atop
> a framework like Eclipse or FreeRIDE that will allow me to essentially provide
> the custom functionality I need by creating plug-ins for the framework.  The
> app isn't an IDE or text editor, so I think I'm going to be stripping down the
> framework to its core that supports plug-ins (e.g., start with Eclipse Platform
> rather than Eclipse SDK) and building up from there.
> 

Seems like what you want is to develop a Rich Client Platform
application. If you use the latest milestone build (3.1M5) then you
get the basic wizards that create the starting points for you. The
lastest tutorials at EclipseCon 2005 has the latest startup pointers
that are relevant to 3.1. Also the RCP homepage tutorials are a great
starting place.

You can get all those links at my blog at

http://fitsterandeclipse.blogspot.com/

> I want to do TDD for this project, and I think the app should be usable via the
> command line or some similar scripting interface in addition to its GUI.

Here it depends what kind of TDD you want to do. If you are planning
on the black box type (aka junit) then you are in luck since the PDE
comes with a juinit plugin. To use it, read chapter 12 of Contributing
to Eclipse and onwards. Also Chapter 2 of Building Commercial-Quality
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Al Chou | 6 Mar 2005 18:31
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Re: [TFUI] TDD of (ultimately) GUI app built atop a framework via plug-ins?


Thanks for that detailed post, Hugo.

A follow-on question for all:  have any of you TDD'ed with Eclipse (or any
other plugin-based platform, e.g., FreeRIDE or maybe even jEdit) where you
treated the GUI as a thin layer over a more command-line-oriented UI/API and
your TDD tests were written at that layer (Michael Feathers' "humble dialog
box" technique?)?

Al

--- Hugo Garcia <hugo.a.garcia@...> wrote:
> On Fri, 4 Mar 2005 14:49:26 -0800 (PST), Al Chou <hotfusionman@...>
> wrote:
> > 
> > I want to build an application that should have a GUI.  I want to build it
> atop
> > a framework like Eclipse or FreeRIDE that will allow me to essentially
> provide
> > the custom functionality I need by creating plug-ins for the framework. 
> The
> > app isn't an IDE or text editor, so I think I'm going to be stripping down
> the
> > framework to its core that supports plug-ins (e.g., start with Eclipse
> Platform
> > rather than Eclipse SDK) and building up from there.
> > 
> 
> Seems like what you want is to develop a Rich Client Platform
> application. If you use the latest milestone build (3.1M5) then you
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Kevin Lawrence | 6 Mar 2005 22:58

Re: [TFUI] TDD of (ultimately) GUI app built atop a framework via plug-ins?


I am doing exactly that now.

I have four layers :

My application.
The Humble Dialog-style controller for the UI.
The UI in SWT.
The eclipse plugin.

The SWT layer is thin. The eclipse plugin layer is positively anaemic.

Kevin

Al Chou wrote:
> Thanks for that detailed post, Hugo.
> 
> A follow-on question for all:  have any of you TDD'ed with Eclipse (or any
> other plugin-based platform, e.g., FreeRIDE or maybe even jEdit) where you
> treated the GUI as a thin layer over a more command-line-oriented UI/API and
> your TDD tests were written at that layer (Michael Feathers' "humble dialog
> box" technique?)?
> 
> 
> Al
> 
> 
> --- Hugo Garcia <hugo.a.garcia@...> wrote:
> 
>>On Fri, 4 Mar 2005 14:49:26 -0800 (PST), Al Chou <hotfusionman@...>
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Gmane