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Chris Morris | 1 Dec 2003 04:27
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Re: [TFUI] Re: Question about Web Software Design

Phlip wrote:

>But I must point out a technical problem with the wtr I started to use.
>
>   nodeName = '-HTML-BODY1-TABLE2-TBODY1-TR1-TD1' +
>              '-TABLE1-TBODY1-TR1-TD1-FORM1-INPUT1'
>
>   saveButton = dv.getNodeWrapperFromPath(nodeName, root)
>   assert_equal('INPUT1', saveButton.name)
>
>I didn't read >all< of the source, but that appeared to be how one reaches
>into a page and grabs a control.
>  
>
This is only a requirement if there's no named controls in the form.

cliec originally started to scratch an itch I had to screen-scrape my 
bank balances, and the html my bank used didn't have any named items for 
me to access via a normal way -- so this was my only recourse I could 
come up with.

The readme (currently only in the CVS of the RubyForge project) has some 
examples along the lines of what you put in your post:

  require 'cl/iec'

  VISIBLE = true
  iec = ClIEController.new(VISIBLE)
  iec.navigate('http://www.amazon.com')
  form = IEDomFormWrapper.new(iec.form)
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Chris Morris | 1 Dec 2003 04:37
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Re: [TFUI] Re: Question about Web Software Design

Phlip wrote:

>>... as well as Web Testing with Ruby for more info on using Ruby to
>>drive IE (and possibly Mozilla).
>>
>>http://clabs.org/wtr
>>    
>>
>
>Mozilla! Cool!
>  
>
Well, maybe :-)

See http://www.clabs.org/wtr/index.cgi?page=/MozAxc

--

-- 
Chris
http://clabs.org/blogki

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Chris Morris | 1 Dec 2003 04:48
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Re: [TFUI] A Method for Building Test First GUIs

Mike Stallings wrote:

>Hi,
>
>    I'm struggling with GUI's that are filled with business logic.  I'm 
>thinking of proceeding as follows in future.  
>
>    Any comments?  
>
In reference to the WTR project I mentioned in the other thread -- with 
.NET you can publish your Windows Forms as COM objects and then do GUI 
testing on them from any COM-talking script language (like Ruby).

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Phlip | 1 Dec 2003 07:34
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[TFUI] brief i18n glossary review requested

Tee Eff You Eye:

'A "script" is a set of glyphs that write a language. A "char set" is a
table of integers, one for each glyph in the script. An "encoding" is a way
to pack that char set as a sequence of integers, all with the same
bit-count. A "glossary" is a list of useful phrases translated into two or
more languages. A "locale" is a culture's script, char set, encoding,
glossary, icons, colors, sounds, formats, and layouts, all bundled into a
seamless GUI experience.'

Did I miss anything?

--
  Phlip

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Ron Jeffries | 1 Dec 2003 12:42
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Re: [TFUI] brief i18n glossary review requested

On Monday, December 1, 2003, at 1:34:42 AM, Phlip wrote:

> 'A "script" is a set of glyphs that write a language. A "char set" is a
> table of integers, one for each glyph in the script. An "encoding" is a way
> to pack that char set as a sequence of integers, all with the same
> bit-count. A "glossary" is a list of useful phrases translated into two or
> more languages. A "locale" is a culture's script, char set, encoding,
> glossary, icons, colors, sounds, formats, and layouts, all bundled into a
> seamless GUI experience.'

> Did I miss anything?

I ask this with great love: Did you miss clarity and purpose?

Ron Jeffries
www.XProgramming.com
There is really no such thing as bad weather,
only different kinds of good weather.  ~John Ruskin

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Phlip | 1 Dec 2003 14:39
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Re: [TFUI] brief i18n glossary review requested

Ron Jeffries wrote:

> Phlip wrote:
>
> > 'A "script" is a set of glyphs that write a language. A "char set" is a
> > table of integers, one for each glyph in the script. An "encoding" is a
way
> > to pack that char set as a sequence of integers, all with the same
> > bit-count. A "glossary" is a list of useful phrases translated into two
or
> > more languages. A "locale" is a culture's script, char set, encoding,
> > glossary, icons, colors, sounds, formats, and layouts, all bundled into
a
> > seamless GUI experience.'
>
> > Did I miss anything?
>
> I ask this with great love: Did you miss clarity and purpose?

Yes. Don't worry about the context...

--
  Phlip

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Ron Jeffries | 1 Dec 2003 14:53
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Re: [TFUI] brief i18n glossary review requested

On Monday, December 1, 2003, at 8:39:59 AM, Phlip wrote:

>> I ask this with great love: Did you miss clarity and purpose?

> Yes. Don't worry about the context...

I'm not worried about that, I have world peace and some other stuff on my
mind. But the writeup seemed dense, cryptic, context free. I wasn't able to
assess it well in that mode.

Ron Jeffries
www.XProgramming.com
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.  -- Picasso

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Phlip | 1 Dec 2003 15:06
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Re: [TFUI] brief i18n glossary review requested

> I'm not worried about that, I have world peace and some other stuff on my
> mind. But the writeup seemed dense, cryptic, context free. I wasn't able
to
> assess it well in that mode.
>
> Ron Jeffries

 * script - a set of glyphs that write a language

 * char set - is a table of integers, one for each glyph in the script

 * encoding - a way to pack that char set as a sequence of integers,
     all with the same bit-count

 * glossary - a list of useful phrases translated into two or
     more languages

 * locale - a culture's script, char set, encoding, glossary, icons,
     colors, sounds, formats, and layouts, all bundled into a
     seamless GUI experience.

No, Ron, I still don't expect it to rock your world!

--
  Phlip

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Phlip | 1 Dec 2003 16:35
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Re: [TFUI] brief i18n glossary review requested

One of us wrote:

> I liked it. I thought it was useful. I didn't mind the density.

I was about to start slinging those words around as if the reader had ever
heard them.

I myself have never read their definitions, so that's among the reasons I
was checking.

(Ringing the bell at the top of Ron's brain would have been a small extra
benefit.)

There are three ways to plan for internationalization:

 - You aren't going to need it - hard-code a single locale

 - Localize to every target language, simultaneously

 - Localize to at least 4 scripts, including a right-to-left
      script and an ideographic one.

Explaining these in reverse order, we find that only localizing to two easy
languages within the same script, such as English and Spanish, does little
to get the code ready for Manchu or Sylheti. Worse, one might write
speculative code that "might" work with other scripts' encodings, when you
obtain glossaries for them.

Right-to-left scripts require Bi-Directional communication support (BiDi),
so embedded left-to-right verbiage "flows" correctly within the
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Chris Hanson | 12 Dec 2003 02:07

Re: [TFUI] Re: Unit testing GUIs

This is old stuff I'm replying to, I'm just catching up on the list 
now.  I feel some things need to be pointed out though.

On Nov 13, 2003, at 8:48 AM, Phlip wrote:
> The industry has little experience test-first, or test-first in a GUI. 
> All
> the GUI Toolkits bundle with toys that make untestable modifications 
> very
> easy.

Incorrect.  Not all human interface design tools are code generators.

Let me say this again:

* Not all human interface design tools are code generators.

* Not all human interface design tools are code generators.

* Not all human interface design tools are code generators.

Some just generate data that's loaded at run-time and wired up to your 
controller and model objects dynamically at run-time.

Phlip, get yourself an iBook and learn Cocoa.

> Then their vendors try to appeal to newbie programmers, as if that was
> where managers assign them.

Or they appeal to professional developers who have better things to do 
than write code to position buttons in a form.
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