Savory Chef versus Pastry Chef

My wife and I love to watch Top Chef.

I noticed that the chef's are constantly tasting their food.  They are
checking their recipe as they go.

A new show just started named Top Chef: Just Desserts. Here pastry
chefs compete for the prize.

On the first episode one of the pastry chefs said something like, "The
difference between a savory chef and a pastry chef is that, we can't
taste as we go. It has to be made perfectly for it to turn out right."

This got me thinking about TDD.

As craftsman we get to taste our design by writing tests. We discover
code smells, and we sprinkle in a little refactoring. Every few
minutes we know if we are making a good dish or not.

Without TDD, programming is like baking a cake. We put in all the
right ingredients and pop it in the oven. An hour later, we hope it
turned out right.

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Re: Savory Chef versus Pastry Chef

Re: Savory Chef versus Pastry Chef

Re: Savory Chef versus Pastry Chef

This reminds me of Anthony Bourdain.  In his book 'Kitchen
Confidential' he implied that pastry chefs were a bit weird and what
made one or another great was a mystery.

On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 9:06 AM, Ben Rady <benrady@...> wrote:
> It's a lot easier to adapt when you have a shorter feedback loop.
>
> In addition to programming, I also cook and bake. In my experience, baking
> is very much about knowing what you're doing before you start to do it. Most
> of the time, it's about precision and being able to repeat the necessary
> steps to consistently produce something tasty. Improvising in baking is very
> difficult to do.
>
> Cooking, on the other hand, is much more creativity and ingredients than
> procedure and precision. For example, I always prefer higher quality
> ingredients than what's specifically called for in the recipe. Good
> ingredients always taste good. If I taste it along the way, I can adjust the
> flavors to make sure they all balance out. Getting that fast feedback lets
> me try things out and not fear making something inedible.
>
> That's why a good cook can usually walk into a kitchen and make something
> wonderful from whatever is on hand. They can measure the end product as they
> go along (by tasting it) and have the experience to know how adding other
> ingredients will affect the dish. The length of the feedback loop is short
> enough to provide lots of iterations before the final product needs to be
> delivered (a.k.a. dinner time). Not so with baking.
>
> On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 2:56 AM, Edward Gabriel Moraru
> <edward.moraru@...> wrote:
>>
>> I think it's also called "Edit and Pray".
>> But, the analogy has a little flaw : the pastry chef didn't cook a perfect
>> pastry from the first time, she/he cooked some pastries before until she/he
>> learned the recipe. So, the pastry chef also tested ;)
>>
>> Anyway, great thoughts, thanks for sharing them with us.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 4:17 AM, Dan Stewart <dan@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> My wife and I love to watch Top Chef.
>>>
>>> I noticed that the chef's are constantly tasting their food.  They are
>>> checking their recipe as they go.
>>>
>>> A new show just started named Top Chef: Just Desserts. Here pastry
>>> chefs compete for the prize.
>>>
>>> On the first episode one of the pastry chefs said something like, "The
>>> difference between a savory chef and a pastry chef is that, we can't
>>> taste as we go. It has to be made perfectly for it to turn out right."
>>>
>>> This got me thinking about TDD.
>>>
>>> As craftsman we get to taste our design by writing tests. We discover
>>> code smells, and we sprinkle in a little refactoring. Every few
>>> minutes we know if we are making a good dish or not.
>>>
>>> Without TDD, programming is like baking a cake. We put in all the
>>> right ingredients and pop it in the oven. An hour later, we hope it
>>> turned out right.
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>>> "software_craftsmanship" group.
>>> To post to this group, send email to
>>> software_craftsmanship@...
>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>> software_craftsmanship+unsubscribe@...
>>> For more options, visit this group at
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/software_craftsmanship?hl=en.
>>>
>>
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>
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C Unit Testing frameworks

Hello List-

  I'm interested in adopting/adapting an automated unit test framwork
for a project I shall be starting shortly.  The target language is
strict ansi C.
I have started looking at the tools listed here:

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unit_testing_frameworks#C

 I'm interested in the experience of the group with such things in
general and any specific recommendations for best practices or
specific tools as well.

   Thanks

     Collins

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Re: Savory Chef versus Pastry Chef

Re: Savory Chef versus Pastry Chef

I think it's a false distinction - Pastry chefs may not taste but they
do look at and feel consistency plus the smell of the ingredients.
Plus an experienced chef who knows their kitchen will know that
certain ovens are slightly hotter than others and so on.

I think it's more like Java vs Ruby. With Ruby allow the sampling and
trials and Java needing the 20 minute Ant script before you have any
idea if it still runs ;)

On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 2:12 PM, Michael Feathers
<michael.feathers@...> wrote:
> This reminds me of Anthony Bourdain.  In his book 'Kitchen
> Confidential' he implied that pastry chefs were a bit weird and what
> made one or another great was a mystery.
>
> On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 9:06 AM, Ben Rady <benrady@...> wrote:
>> It's a lot easier to adapt when you have a shorter feedback loop.
>>
>> In addition to programming, I also cook and bake. In my experience, baking
>> is very much about knowing what you're doing before you start to do it. Most
>> of the time, it's about precision and being able to repeat the necessary
>> steps to consistently produce something tasty. Improvising in baking is very
>> difficult to do.
>>
>> Cooking, on the other hand, is much more creativity and ingredients than
>> procedure and precision. For example, I always prefer higher quality
>> ingredients than what's specifically called for in the recipe. Good
>> ingredients always taste good. If I taste it along the way, I can adjust the
>> flavors to make sure they all balance out. Getting that fast feedback lets
>> me try things out and not fear making something inedible.
>>
>> That's why a good cook can usually walk into a kitchen and make something
>> wonderful from whatever is on hand. They can measure the end product as they
>> go along (by tasting it) and have the experience to know how adding other
>> ingredients will affect the dish. The length of the feedback loop is short
>> enough to provide lots of iterations before the final product needs to be
>> delivered (a.k.a. dinner time). Not so with baking.
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 2:56 AM, Edward Gabriel Moraru
>> <edward.moraru@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> I think it's also called "Edit and Pray".
>>> But, the analogy has a little flaw : the pastry chef didn't cook a perfect
>>> pastry from the first time, she/he cooked some pastries before until she/he
>>> learned the recipe. So, the pastry chef also tested ;)
>>>
>>> Anyway, great thoughts, thanks for sharing them with us.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 4:17 AM, Dan Stewart <dan@...> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> My wife and I love to watch Top Chef.
>>>>
>>>> I noticed that the chef's are constantly tasting their food.  They are
>>>> checking their recipe as they go.
>>>>
>>>> A new show just started named Top Chef: Just Desserts. Here pastry
>>>> chefs compete for the prize.
>>>>
>>>> On the first episode one of the pastry chefs said something like, "The
>>>> difference between a savory chef and a pastry chef is that, we can't
>>>> taste as we go. It has to be made perfectly for it to turn out right."
>>>>
>>>> This got me thinking about TDD.
>>>>
>>>> As craftsman we get to taste our design by writing tests. We discover
>>>> code smells, and we sprinkle in a little refactoring. Every few
>>>> minutes we know if we are making a good dish or not.
>>>>
>>>> Without TDD, programming is like baking a cake. We put in all the
>>>> right ingredients and pop it in the oven. An hour later, we hope it
>>>> turned out right.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>>>> "software_craftsmanship" group.
>>>> To post to this group, send email to
>>>> software_craftsmanship@...
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>>> software_craftsmanship+unsubscribe@...
>>>> For more options, visit this group at
>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/software_craftsmanship?hl=en.
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
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>>
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>>
>
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>

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Re: Savory Chef versus Pastry Chef

Re: C Unit Testing frameworks

While I've never TDDed C or C++ myself, I do know of a tool that was
built by people that I believe knew what they were about. Do take a
look and let me know what you think:
http://code.google.com/p/testcpp/wiki/QuickStart

Sidu.
http://c42.in
http://blog.sidu.in
http://twitter.com/ponnappa

On 12 October 2010 16:04, Collins <ccw.in.nc@...> wrote:
> Hello List-
>
>  I'm interested in adopting/adapting an automated unit test framwork
> for a project I shall be starting shortly.  The target language is
> strict ansi C.
> I have started looking at the tools listed here:
>
>  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unit_testing_frameworks#C
>
>  I'm interested in the experience of the group with such things in
> general and any specific recommendations for best practices or
> specific tools as well.
>
>   Thanks
>
>     Collins
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "software_craftsmanship" group.
> To post to this group, send email to software_craftsmanship <at> googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to software_craftsmanship+unsubscribe@...
> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/software_craftsmanship?hl=en.
>
>

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Re: C Unit Testing frameworks