woynam <woyna <at> argonne.com>To:
scrumdevelopment <at> yahoogroups.comSent:
Tuesday, November 1, 2011 9:48 AMSubject:
When managers estimate on behalf of the team in sprint planning
I agree with you on the 2nd point, but not the first. I assume the manager is a stakeholder, so they have a right to attend the planning meeting and provide input.
Where is it written that stakeholders do not attend the planning meetings?
Unless they are a complete pointy-haired boss, I assume they have some insight into the business and technical side of things, otherwise they're probably just using up oxygen.
That said, at some point after the details of the PBI's have been discussed, and the team feels they have enough information to estimate the item, the manager should butt out and let the team estimate the item.
--- In scrumdevelopment <at> yahoogroups.com
, "barrettdab" <dave.barrett <at> ...> wrote:
> I was being
somewhat facetious, but...
> This one is so fundamental, so basic, it's not something you finesse.
> There's three points that come to mind right away. The first is that the manager, if he's not the PO or on the Development Team, is a chicken. Chickens don't come to Sprint Planning meetings, and if they do, the sit quietly in a corner and keep their mouths shut.
> Secondly, but just as important. One of the keystones of Scrum is that the developers estimate and get to pick how much they are going to commit to for each Sprint. Nobody. Nobody gets to tell the Development Team how much they will commit to.
> Thirdly. This is what the Scrum Master is for. He has two jobs: clear
impediments and make sure that the Scrum process is followed properly. This is a clear breach of the Scrum process and the SM here needs to step in and stop the
manager from getting involved in the planning process. End of story. Otherwise this is going to be another one of those companies that say, "Oh, we tried Agile/Scrum but it didn't work for us".
> I'd put this in the same class as Ken's story about not being able to get whiteboard for the Team room. So he started writing on the walls. Whiteboards showed up the next day.
> --- In scrumdevelopment <at> yahoogroups.com
, Joshua Partogi <joshua.java <at> > wrote:
> > On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 10:30 PM, David A Barrett <dave.barrett <at> >wrote:
> > > **
> > >
> > >
> > > Well, you could start by not inviting him to the Sprint planning meetings.
> > > Did it work when you didn't invite a manager to a Sprint Planning meeting?
> > Or did it make him more defensive?
> > Thanks for sharing.
> > --
> > <at> jpartogi
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