Bishop, Murray | 2 Nov 2003 10:48
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Re: Process Same As Methodology./Methods..?

neil_e_martin2003 writes:

> David,
> 
> A short note to say I'm delighted to hear you say this - I thought
> for a while that I was the only one!
> 
> Best Regards
> Neil

You and David are in company with the third edition of The New Elizabethan
Reference Dictionary - "an up-to-date vocabulary of the language as spoken
and written in the mid-twentieth century", which contains:

method [F. methode, L. methodus, Gr. Methodos (METH, hodos, way)], n. Mode
of procedure, way or order of doing; an orderly, systematic, or logical
arrangement; orderliness, system; a system or the basis of a system of
classification.

methodology, n. (Log.) The branch of logic dealing with the methods of
accurate thinking.

> --- In scrumdevelopment <at> yahoogroups.com, "David Anderson"
> <netherby_uk <at> y...> wrote:
> > Methodology is the science (or study) of methods. The
> > word "methodology" has been widely misused in software when the
> > word "method" should have been used.
> >

Best,
(Continue reading)

Ken Schwaber | 2 Nov 2003 16:51
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RE: Bombastic

A six week sprint is long enough that the team starts to require
documentation, additional models, additional communication vehicles to
remind them of their prior work and decisions. Sprints can be longer or
shorter than thirty calendar days, but each direction has its downside and
loss of productivity and collaboration. However, the world isn't optimal
either.
Ken

-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Jeffries [mailto:ronjeffries <at> XProgramming.com]
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 7:56 AM
To: scrumdevelopment <at> yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Bombastic

On Thursday, October 30, 2003, at 12:36:51 PM, Jim McCusker wrote:

> I was actually wondering what the community's view was if someone were
> to add 2 weeks to a sprint - mostly because the time given from start to
> code freeze was 6 weeks instead of 30 days.

Two shorter sprints would provide better feedback and more flexibility on
the part of the PM.

Ron Jeffries
www.XProgramming.com
Do, or do not. There is no try.  --Yoda

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(Continue reading)

Eric Chamberlain | 3 Nov 2003 19:00
Favicon

RE: Tools, Tools, Scrum Tools!

Well, our backlog management is not really the issue. It is more the
collective burn-down.  We were giving our burn-downs in the daily Scrum
meeting and then recording that to an excel spreadsheet but two things
changed at the start of the last sprint: (1) A new scrummaster/manager came
on-line who's been doing semi-XP and (2) apparently some members of the team
didn't feel comfortable declaring their burn-down at the scrum meeting.  The
new manager brought in an XP tool which seems to obscure the actual
burn-down of the sprint so I was looking for a Scrum alternative which would
restore the clarity of the burndown (that's the concensus of the team, not
just my opinion) and thus one of the big benefits that our team has enjoyed
from Scrum.

A return to the spreadsheet stands as an alternative but the new scrummaster
seems to want to shoe-horn us into the XP tool and is resistant to using
Excel here.  I am trying to find a "third way" so we're all happy.

Make sense?

> 
> How many items in your backlog? How many are you burning in 
> every sprint? What's wrong with a piece of paper and a 
> crayon, or Excel?
> 
> Ron Jeffries
> www.XProgramming.com
> Please state the nature of the development emergency. -- Ryan Ripley
> 
> 
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
> ---------------------~--> KnowledgeStorm has over 22,000 B2B 
(Continue reading)

Bryan Zarnett | 3 Nov 2003 19:49
Favicon

Re: Tools, Tools, Scrum Tools!

If the tool is getting in the way for whatever silly reason. Drop the 
tool. I find it scary how people are obsessing on Excel. The tool is 
not the approach, it's just a tool.

In the words of Bruce:

"Don't think; feel. It's like a finger pointing away to the moon. 
Don't concentrate on the finger, or you will miss all the heavenly 
glory." Bruce Lee in Enter The Dragon (1974) 

--- In scrumdevelopment <at> yahoogroups.com, Eric Chamberlain 
<Eric.Chamberlain <at> c...> wrote:
> Well, our backlog management is not really the issue. It is more the
> collective burn-down.  We were giving our burn-downs in the daily 
Scrum
> meeting and then recording that to an excel spreadsheet but two 
things
> changed at the start of the last sprint: (1) A new 
scrummaster/manager came
> on-line who's been doing semi-XP and (2) apparently some members of 
the team
> didn't feel comfortable declaring their burn-down at the scrum 
meeting.  The
> new manager brought in an XP tool which seems to obscure the actual
> burn-down of the sprint so I was looking for a Scrum alternative 
which would
> restore the clarity of the burndown (that's the concensus of the 
team, not
> just my opinion) and thus one of the big benefits that our team has 
enjoyed
(Continue reading)

Ken Schwaber | 4 Nov 2003 01:27
Picon

RE: Tools, Tools, Scrum Tools!

You need to send the new manager to the certified scrummaster class so that
he will find out how to behave like a ScrumMaster. In the meantime, bring
his "tool" up as an impediment that he has to remove, and remind him of the
agile manifesto, which is people over process and tools.
Ken Schwaber

-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Chamberlain [mailto:Eric.Chamberlain <at> creo.com]
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 1:00 PM
To: 'scrumdevelopment <at> yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] Tools, Tools, Scrum Tools!

Well, our backlog management is not really the issue. It is more the
collective burn-down.  We were giving our burn-downs in the daily Scrum
meeting and then recording that to an excel spreadsheet but two things
changed at the start of the last sprint: (1) A new scrummaster/manager came
on-line who's been doing semi-XP and (2) apparently some members of the team
didn't feel comfortable declaring their burn-down at the scrum meeting.  The
new manager brought in an XP tool which seems to obscure the actual
burn-down of the sprint so I was looking for a Scrum alternative which would
restore the clarity of the burndown (that's the concensus of the team, not
just my opinion) and thus one of the big benefits that our team has enjoyed
from Scrum.

A return to the spreadsheet stands as an alternative but the new scrummaster
seems to want to shoe-horn us into the XP tool and is resistant to using
Excel here.  I am trying to find a "third way" so we're all happy.

Make sense?

(Continue reading)

Mike Cohn | 5 Nov 2003 15:40
Favicon

New Article by Ken

FYI:

The new STQE magazine came in the mail and I just read it this morning. There’s a new article in it by Ken called “What’s Different about Agile Management?” It’s a great and very well-written article on the role of management in agile development.

 

If you aren’t familiar with STQE magazine, you should really check it out (www.stqemagazine.com).  It’s become one of the premier magazines on development and has broadened beyond its originally testing roots. Probably because of that they’re changing names to “Better Software” at the start of the year. It is also a frequent source of articles of interest to agile developers. This issue, for example, includes other agile-related articles such as an experience report on posting progress and status information on a wall and an article by Micah Martin on FitNesse, the great testing tool.

 

--Mike



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Cook Linda | 5 Nov 2003 16:48

RE: New Article by Ken


 Unfortunately you must subscribe to read the article! 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Cohn [mailto:mike <at> mountaingoatsoftware.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 9:41 AM
To: scrumdevelopment <at> yahoogroups.com
Subject: [scrumdevelopment] New Article by Ken

FYI:

The new STQE magazine came in the mail and I just read it this morning. There’s a new article in it by Ken called “What’s Different about Agile Management?” It’s a great and very well-written article on the role of management in agile development.

 

If you aren’t familiar with STQE magazine, you should really check it out (www.stqemagazine.com).  It’s become one of the premier magazines on development and has broadened beyond its originally testing roots. Probably because of that they’re changing names to “Better Software” at the start of the year. It is also a frequent source of articles of interest to agile developers. This issue, for example, includes other agile-related articles such as an experience report on posting progress and status information on a wall and an article by Micah Martin on FitNesse, the great testing tool.

 

--Mike



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Mike Beedle | 5 Nov 2003 22:42

Re: Process Same As Methodology./Methods..?

--- In scrumdevelopment <at> yahoogroups.com, "Bishop, Murray" 
> You and David are in company with the third edition of The 
> New Elizabethan Reference Dictionary - "an up-to-date vocabulary 
> of the language as spoken and written in the mid-twentieth 
> century", which contains:
>
> method [F. methode, L. methodus, Gr. Methodos (METH, hodos, way)], 
> n. Mode of procedure, way or order of doing; an orderly, 
> systematic, or logical arrangement; orderliness, system; a system 
> or the basis of a system of classification.
> 
> methodology, n. (Log.) The branch of logic dealing with the methods
>  of accurate thinking.

Murray:

I was told those same definitions by Ed Berard circa 1989.  Even back
then Ed was in disbelief of how abused the word "methodology" was
within the software context.

Clearly, we have been in some kind of "methodological"
"dark ages" that started sometime after the word started to be abused 
in the software world almost 30 years ago -- starting with the
abuse of the word,

- Mike 

Mark Botticelli | 7 Nov 2003 13:08
Picon
Favicon

RE: Tools, Tools, Scrum Tools!

I am not sure if you are aware, but this is a god
digest of the yahoo group emails.

http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.programming.scrum.general/first=1/last=50

--- Ken Schwaber <ken.schwaber <at> verizon.net> wrote:
> You need to send the new manager to the certified
> scrummaster class so that
> he will find out how to behave like a ScrumMaster.
> In the meantime, bring
> his "tool" up as an impediment that he has to
> remove, and remind him of the
> agile manifesto, which is people over process and
> tools.
> Ken Schwaber
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eric Chamberlain
> [mailto:Eric.Chamberlain <at> creo.com]
> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 1:00 PM
> To: 'scrumdevelopment <at> yahoogroups.com'
> Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] Tools, Tools, Scrum
> Tools!
> 
> 
> Well, our backlog management is not really the
> issue. It is more the
> collective burn-down.  We were giving our burn-downs
> in the daily Scrum
> meeting and then recording that to an excel
> spreadsheet but two things
> changed at the start of the last sprint: (1) A new
> scrummaster/manager came
> on-line who's been doing semi-XP and (2) apparently
> some members of the team
> didn't feel comfortable declaring their burn-down at
> the scrum meeting.  The
> new manager brought in an XP tool which seems to
> obscure the actual
> burn-down of the sprint so I was looking for a Scrum
> alternative which would
> restore the clarity of the burndown (that's the
> concensus of the team, not
> just my opinion) and thus one of the big benefits
> that our team has enjoyed
> from Scrum.
> 
> A return to the spreadsheet stands as an alternative
> but the new scrummaster
> seems to want to shoe-horn us into the XP tool and
> is resistant to using
> Excel here.  I am trying to find a "third way" so
> we're all happy.
> 
> Make sense?
> 
> >
> > How many items in your backlog? How many are you
> burning in
> > every sprint? What's wrong with a piece of paper
> and a
> > crayon, or Excel?
> >
> > Ron Jeffries
> > www.XProgramming.com
> > Please state the nature of the development
> emergency. -- Ryan Ripley
> >
> >
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > ---------------------~--> KnowledgeStorm has over
> 22,000 B2B
> > technology solutions. The most comprehensive IT
> buyers'
> > information available. Research, compare, decide.
> E-Commerce
> > | Application Dev | Accounting-Finance |
> Healthcare | Project
> > Mgt | Sales-Marketing | More
> > http://us.click.yahoo.com/IMai8D/UYQGAA/c>
> IoLAA/9EfwlB/TM
> >
> >
> >
>
--------------------------------------------------------------
> > -------~->
> >
> > To Post a message, send it to:  
> scrumdevelopment <at> eGroups.com
> > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
> > scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe <at> eGroups.com
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> 
> 
> To Post a message, send it to:  
> scrumdevelopment <at> eGroups.com
> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
> scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe <at> eGroups.com
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 
> 

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Mike Cohn | 10 Nov 2003 02:42
Favicon

mention of Scrum in "Software Development"

The new “Software Development” magazine came a couple of days ago. As always, Scott Ambler has an interesting column. I often agree with his points but I don’t this time and since Scrum is mentioned in the article I want to pass along the reference.

 

The article is about using “the right tool for the job” and its teaser says that “When it comes to methodologies, one size doesn’t fit all. By examining all the options, you can create a mix-and-match approach that best suits your project.”

 

The part of the article that I think is subject to debate is a figure he shows. The figure has a vertical axis with “full lifecycle” at the top and “partial methodology” at the bottom. He puts Scrum near the bottom on this axis saying that “Scrum [focuses] only on one aspect of software development, …project management.” At similar levels on this scale are Code and fix, test-driven development, his own Agile Modeling and Agile Data.

 

The horizontal axis goes from Ad Hoc on the left to Prescriptive on the right. Scrum is shown slightly to the Prescriptive side of the middle. At similar levels on that scale are DSDM, FDD, and Agile Data.

 

Scrum is defined in a sidebar to the article as “a partial agile methodology” and says that to use it “Tailor Scrum into agile or near-agile development methods.” What’s odd is that other processes that seem far less agile to me (e.g, FDD) are listed as agile while Scrum is “partial agile”.  Similarly, XP is listed as more ad hoc than Scrum. That’s a hard one—in some ways (good ones) XP is fairly prescriptive and there was a lot of early talk in XP circles that if you weren’t doing all 12 practices you weren’t doing XP.

 

If I had to place Scrum on a scale between Ad Hoc and Prescriptive I’d put it pretty far to the Ad Hoc side.

 

Placing it between Partial Methodology and Full Lifecycle is harder. Yes, it’s partial because it doesn’t define how everything happens but it seems fairly full lifecycle in that the path to a potentially shippable product increment is defined. There’s nothing in Scrum about how to end a project or about how to handle a project in its earliest, pre-funding or exploratory phases but some of that is what Ken’s been adding in the CSM classes. Still, I’d say it seems more toward the Full Lifecycle end of things than the Partial Methodology end of things.

 

Anyone else have any thoughts about Scott’s article and placement of Scrum?

 

In any event, the article is quite good. The print issue is out now and they seem to put the articles online at www.sdmagazine.com a few weeks afterwards. (As a bonus, this issue has another great article—Bob Martin showing how tracking velocity and product burndown help manage a project.)

 

--Mike



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