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Phlip | 1 May 2006 01:00
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Re: Book Review: Pragmatic Ajax

Ron Jeffries wrote:

> Book Review: Pragmatic Ajax
> Ron Jeffries
> 04/29/2006
>
>  Justin Gehtland, Ben Galbraith, and Dion Almaer bring us a
>  valuable and enjoyable book describing Ajax. It is full of running
>  examples, points out the major gotchas, and it's a good read too!
>  Recommended!
>
>  http://www.xprogramming.com/xpmag/bookPragmaticAjax.htm

Do it TDD them Ajaxies?

--
  Phlip
  http://www.greencheese.us/ZeekLand  <-- NOT a blog!!

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Ron Jeffries | 1 May 2006 01:16
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Re: Book Review: Pragmatic Ajax

On Sunday, April 30, 2006, at 7:00:15 PM, Phlip wrote:

> Ron Jeffries wrote:

>> Book Review: Pragmatic Ajax
>> Ron Jeffries
>> 04/29/2006
>>
>>  Justin Gehtland, Ben Galbraith, and Dion Almaer bring us a
>>  valuable and enjoyable book describing Ajax. It is full of running
>>  examples, points out the major gotchas, and it's a good read too!
>>  Recommended!
>>
>>  http://www.xprogramming.com/xpmag/bookPragmaticAjax.htm

> Do it TDD them Ajaxies?

No. It presents clear, understandable examples. The first example,
the google-style map, is built up incrementally. Other examples are
just presented as finished items.

Ron Jeffries
www.XProgramming.com
Speculation or experimentation - which is more likely to give the correct answer?

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Ian Collins | 1 May 2006 01:55
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Re: Book Review: Pragmatic Ajax

Phlip wrote:

>Ron Jeffries wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Book Review: Pragmatic Ajax
>>Ron Jeffries
>>04/29/2006
>>
>> Justin Gehtland, Ben Galbraith, and Dion Almaer bring us a
>> valuable and enjoyable book describing Ajax. It is full of running
>> examples, points out the major gotchas, and it's a good read too!
>> Recommended!
>>
>> http://www.xprogramming.com/xpmag/bookPragmaticAjax.htm
>>    
>>
>
>Do it TDD them Ajaxies?
>  
>
If anyone else here has been doing TDD with AJAX, I'd be interested in
sharing experiences.

Ian

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Luiz Esmiralha | 1 May 2006 02:09
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Re: Book Review: Pragmatic Ajax

On 4/30/06, Ian Collins <ian <at> ianshome.com> wrote:
>
> Phlip wrote:
>
> >Ron Jeffries wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>Book Review: Pragmatic Ajax
> >>Ron Jeffries
> >>04/29/2006
> >>
> >> Justin Gehtland, Ben Galbraith, and Dion Almaer bring us a
> >> valuable and enjoyable book describing Ajax. It is full of running
> >> examples, points out the major gotchas, and it's a good read too!
> >> Recommended!
> >>
> >> http://www.xprogramming.com/xpmag/bookPragmaticAjax.htm
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Do it TDD them Ajaxies?
> >
> >
> If anyone else here has been doing TDD with AJAX, I'd be interested in
> sharing experiences.
>
> Ian
>
>
(Continue reading)

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Ian Collins | 1 May 2006 02:45
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Re: Book Review: Pragmatic Ajax

Luiz Esmiralha wrote:

>>> <>If anyone else here has been doing TDD with AJAX, I'd be interested in
>>> sharing experiences.
>>>
>>> Ian
>>
>
>I developed an AJAX GUI recently for a customer's project and we used
>Selenium as the acceptance test framework. I have to say Selenium did a
>terrific job at walking through the extremely compl...sophisticated GUI.
>One of the greatest challenges in AJAX was having a "persistent" whose state
>must be ketp consistent during hundreds of user interactions. Web UI have
>the privilege of building themselves after each interaction and it´s hard to
>let go of this habit.
>
>  
>
How did you test? Did you use a real back end, or did you mock it?

For my last project, I ended up with about 50% of my JSunit tests acting
more like acceptance tests (I couldn't motivate my customer to produce
any).  This testing this way enabled me to mock the request object.

I'll have to look at Selenium.

Ian

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Phlip | 1 May 2006 03:22
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Re: Book Review: Pragmatic Ajax

Ian Collins wrote:

> How did you test? Did you use a real back end, or did you mock it?

Selenium - correct me if I'm wrong - pushes JavaScript into Internet
Explorer's DOM. So this is an example of using an AJAX technique
against AJAX.

We would worry about that technique disadvantaging a GUI for browsers
other than Internet Explorer. Except that TDD provides such robust
flexibility that it will use IE to enforce the behaviors that other
browsers require.

--
  Phlip
  http://www.greencheese.us/ZeekLand  <-- NOT a blog!!

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Luiz Esmiralha | 1 May 2006 03:25
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Re: Book Review: Pragmatic Ajax

On 4/30/06, Ian Collins <ian <at> ianshome.com> wrote:
>
> Luiz Esmiralha wrote:
>
> >>> <>If anyone else here has been doing TDD with AJAX, I'd be interested
> in
> >>> sharing experiences.
> >>>
> >>> Ian
> >>
> >
> >I developed an AJAX GUI recently for a customer's project and we used
> >Selenium as the acceptance test framework. I have to say Selenium did a
> >terrific job at walking through the extremely compl...sophisticated GUI.
> >One of the greatest challenges in AJAX was having a "persistent" whose
> state
> >must be ketp consistent during hundreds of user interactions. Web UI have
> >the privilege of building themselves after each interaction and it´s hard
> to
> >let go of this habit.
> >
> >
> >
> How did you test? Did you use a real back end, or did you mock it?
>
> For my last project, I ended up with about 50% of my JSunit tests acting
> more like acceptance tests (I couldn't motivate my customer to produce
> any).  This testing this way enabled me to mock the request object.
>
> I'll have to look at Selenium.
(Continue reading)

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Luiz Esmiralha | 1 May 2006 03:33
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Re: Book Review: Pragmatic Ajax

On 4/30/06, Phlip <phlip2005 <at> gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Ian Collins wrote:
>
> > How did you test? Did you use a real back end, or did you mock it?
>
> Selenium - correct me if I'm wrong - pushes JavaScript into Internet
> Explorer's DOM. So this is an example of using an AJAX technique
> against AJAX.
>
> We would worry about that technique disadvantaging a GUI for browsers
> other than Internet Explorer. Except that TDD provides such robust
> flexibility that it will use IE to enforce the behaviors that other
> browsers require.
>
> --
>   Phlip
>

Selenium is compatible with these browsers:

Windows Mac OS X Linux  Internet Explorer 6.0 IE 5.2 will not be supported not
available  Firefox <http://www.mozilla.com/firefox/> 0.8+, 0.9+, 1.0+ 0.8 to
1.5 0.8+, 0.9+, 1.0+  Mozilla
Suite<http://www.mozilla.org/products/mozilla1.x/>
1.6+, 1.7+ 1.6+, 1.7+ 1.6+, 1.7+ 
Safari<http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/safari/> not
available 1.3+ not available  Netscape
Navigator<http://browser.netscape.com/ns8/>
? not available not available  Opera <http://www.opera.com/> ? Incompatible
(Continue reading)

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June Kim | 1 May 2006 03:34
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Re: New Articles on XProgramming.com

On 5/1/06, Ron Jeffries <ronjeffries <at> xprogramming.com> wrote:
> On Sunday, April 30, 2006, at 5:56:10 AM, June Kim wrote:
>
> > Thank you for the interesting article. As much as I enjoyed reading
> > it, I wanted to add some comments.
>
> Thanks ... I appreciate the feedback.
>
> >> NB. Pick the balls that actually start frames & add em up
> >> Then this, I assume, means to use the first array to index into the
> >> second array, and add up the results.
>
> > Actually, it isn't. I think the biggest difference between the J
> > version and your Ruby version is this.
>
> As I mentioned, I was interpreting the comments and don't understand
> the code. Suspect I need even more help than what's below ... we'll
> see.

I guessed so and was quite surprised how much you could skillfully
achieve from only following the comments!

>
> (Your text reordered below ...)
>
> > So the J version doesn't really pass around any half-way complete
> > arrays. Actually they do all the things at once without any
> > variables(at least when not considering the internal workings). No
> > reference to any data, hence it's called tacit programming, and it is
> > extremely easy to refactor. I mean really easy. Of course, this style
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June Kim | 1 May 2006 03:45
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Re: Book Review: Pragmatic Ajax

In the Korean translation of the book, there is a separate-volume
supplement including some screencast showing TDDing a full ajax
application. It's done by Alan Kang, who is working for my company. He
has the experience of developing an ajax web service for one of the
largest web portals about a year ago.

I'll ask the publisher and Alan if they could put the screencast on
the internet.

On 5/1/06, Ian Collins <ian <at> ianshome.com> wrote:
> Phlip wrote:
>
> >Ron Jeffries wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>Book Review: Pragmatic Ajax
> >>Ron Jeffries
> >>04/29/2006
> >>
> >> Justin Gehtland, Ben Galbraith, and Dion Almaer bring us a
> >> valuable and enjoyable book describing Ajax. It is full of running
> >> examples, points out the major gotchas, and it's a good read too!
> >> Recommended!
> >>
> >> http://www.xprogramming.com/xpmag/bookPragmaticAjax.htm
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Do it TDD them Ajaxies?
(Continue reading)

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