Mike Beedle | 1 Sep 02:03 2002

RE: FW: Are You Getting XPed On


Grady Booch wrote:
> > "..choice of the cloud icon derives from work by Intel in documenting
> > their original object-oriented architecture, the iAPX432."
> >
> > [1] Object-oriented analysis and design with applications. Pág. 177
> [egb> ] DING DING DING DING! Correct answer!!!

Like many in this list I miss the "cloud notation" and its semantics
because it was much closer to the code i.e. it was closer to be
fully traceable and reversible from/to code.  (Yes, I know that's
not what UML is... but that's my point.)

- Mike

** Still searching for supporting evidence on the other unfinished
marketing thread, btw.

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karstentech | 1 Sep 02:35 2002
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Re: Ship It

--- In extremeprogramming <at> y..., Ron Jeffries <ronjeffries <at> a...> wrote:
> OK, unbelievers. Here's the precis from today's addition to the
> Adventures in C# series. One iteration, around a dozen hours' work,
> and we have automated acceptance tests and a deployed application on
> what amounts to a pure GUI app.
> 

Ron,

What tool are you using for automated acceptance tests of a "pure GUI 
app?

NUnitASP?  WinRunner? Something else?

Thanks

Paul

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Dossy | 1 Sep 03:13 2002

Re: Story and defect History [was: Re: XP project tracking tool : xplanner]

On 2002.08.31, Pierre Boudreau <pier <at> nbnet.nb.ca> wrote:
> I look through the printer specifications, but I can't see any
> problems, but I am sure it is the same as before, but my tiny brain
> can't remember what the problem was.  If I could just find that D*! <at> 
> card, I could figure it out...

Didn't you write a test that failed because of this limitation?

Even if the test isn't automated ... you can still keep a list of tests.

If you had the test and could find that, would the initial story card
that sparked the creation of that test be of any use this far into the
future?

-- Dossy

--

-- 
Dossy Shiobara                       mail: dossy <at> panoptic.com 
Panoptic Computer Network             web: http://www.panoptic.com/ 
  "He realized the fastest way to change is to laugh at your own
    folly -- then you can let go and quickly move on." (p. 70)

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(Continue reading)

Pierre Boudreau | 1 Sep 03:26 2002
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Re: Story and defect History [was: Re: XP project tracking tool : xplanner]

> > I look through the printer specifications, but I can't see any
> > problems, but I am sure it is the same as before, but my tiny brain
> > can't remember what the problem was.  If I could just find that D*! <at> 
> > card, I could figure it out...
>
> Didn't you write a test that failed because of this limitation?
>
> Even if the test isn't automated ... you can still keep a list of tests.
>
> If you had the test and could find that, would the initial story card
> that sparked the creation of that test be of any use this far into the
> future?

If it could be automated, it wouldn't be a problem.  If the test can not be
automated, then I would need a searcheable database of tests to be able to
find that information again wouldn't I?  And, to me, that's prety much the
same as having a database of stories.

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Dossy | 1 Sep 03:47 2002

Re: Story and defect History [was: Re: XP project tracking tool : xplanner]

On 2002.08.31, Pierre Boudreau <pier <at> nbnet.nb.ca> wrote:
> 
> If it could be automated, it wouldn't be a problem.  If the test can not be
> automated, then I would need a searcheable database of tests to be able to
> find that information again wouldn't I?  And, to me, that's prety much the
> same as having a database of stories.

A story is a mnemonic so that when a Customer and the Programmers have a
real conversation, they can use a shorthand (the story) to remind each
other what the context of the conversation is.

A test is a list of preconditions, assumptions and/or assertions.  A
single test is far narrower in scope than a story (which makes any one
test useful in an atomic fashion).

While 100% automated tests is nirvana, having tests written in plain
English is still a damn sight better than trying to use stories alone ...

-- Dossy

--

-- 
Dossy Shiobara                       mail: dossy <at> panoptic.com 
Panoptic Computer Network             web: http://www.panoptic.com/ 
  "He realized the fastest way to change is to laugh at your own
    folly -- then you can let go and quickly move on." (p. 70)

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acockburn | 1 Sep 04:15 2002
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Agile RUP / XP / swine / pearls

In a message dated 8/30/2002 6:43:34 PM Mountain Daylight Time, Ron Jeffries 
writes:

> <<What have you seen, along those lines (pro or con) in your many
> project ethnological encounters?>>
> 

Definitely the case that people mis-hear the message of RUP and XP both. 

The ad for Guiness: "I've never tried Guiness because I don't like it." 
applies here.

Just last week a guy told me - "our company execs ordered RUP, because they 
don't want to have to tailor a methodology over and over.  I told them it is 
supposed to be tailored. They said, ' If we wanted to tailor one, we'd write 
our own - we don't , and that's why we mandating RUP for everything. "
   That's an example of severe mishearing.

At XP/Agile Universe, a guy told me, "I'm the only one here from my company - 
the execs won't let anyone else go to anything with XP in the name - ' We 
won't allow that kind of cowboy hacking in the company.' " 
   Another example of severe mishearing.

I have not yet heard anyone say that RUP requires 30 people on the project 
because it names 30 roles, or anything even along those lines.
  (I do hear, all the time, that the big boss requires them to produce ALL of 
the named deliverables, without regard to anything else).

cheers - Alistair

(Continue reading)

acockburn | 1 Sep 04:23 2002
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Clouds

<<
From: "Booch, Grady" <egb <at> rational.com>
Subject: RE: FW: Are You Getting XPed On
> More importantly, nobody should have let Jim sings "Both Sides Now" at the
> Copper Tank....
[egb> ] It was a surprise to everyone in the company that he did so...
>>

No way ! That was brilliant ! It was one of those events . . . "I was there 
and saw Jim sing . . . and then Ivar tried to get the stage back, but Jim 
said, "I have the microphone", and launched into the third verse . . . '  !! 

Utterly exquisite in its total incongruity.  

Alistair

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Ron Crocker | 1 Sep 04:36 2002

Re: FW: Are You Getting XPed On

Dan Rawsthorne wrote:
> Rob Sartin [mailto:sartin <at> austin.rr.com]
> 
> 
>>At 10:40 AM 8/31/2002, you wrote:
>>
>>>I loved the clouds. You should have kept the clouds.
>>
>>More importantly, nobody should have let Jim sings "Both
>>Sides Now" at the
>>Copper Tank....
> 
> 
> I miss the clouds, too, but it was a heckuva night. With Ivar announcing
> that we was coming to Rational, Jim singing, and Grady putting his signature
> in the last remaining clouds -- quite a sight.  Dan  ;-)

Was that at OOPSLA in Portland (uhh, 1994?) I remember that the picture 
of Ivar with his arms around Jim and Grady and everyone happy wasn't 
meant as a marketing shot - it was three friends getting a friendly 
photo for their own memory (at least, that's what Ivar told me - maybe 
he *IS* a marketing genius...)

Another memory, from OOPSLA '95 -- I was tutorials chair, and Jim and 
Grady were doing a tutorial (aside: I made sure some guy got a seat and 
he wanted to give me real money - he had to pay the standard fee for the 
seat, but it was really important to him - I took a T-shirt instead) and 
I recall Jim saying something to the effect of "I lost my balls."

So, Grady gave up clouds, but Jim's sacrifice seems somehow more 
(Continue reading)

Ron Jeffries | 1 Sep 05:10 2002
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Re: Re: Ship It

Around Saturday, August 31, 2002, 8:35:29 PM, karstentech wrote:

> What tool are you using for automated acceptance tests of a "pure GUI 
> app?

> NUnitASP?  WinRunner? Something else?

The point, actually, is this: you don't need a tool. You need a test.

Ron Jeffries
www.XProgramming.com
To be on the wire is life. The rest is waiting.  --Karl Wallenda

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Ron Jeffries | 1 Sep 05:12 2002
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Re: Agile RUP / XP / swine / pearls

Around Saturday, August 31, 2002, 10:15:31 PM, acockburn <at> aol.com wrote:

> Definitely the case that people mis-hear the message of RUP and XP both. 

Thanks, Alistair!

Ron Jeffries
www.XProgramming.com
Don't be afraid of pair programming:
You may not be as good as you think you are, but
You're not as bad as you fear.

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Gmane