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Art Taylor | 1 Jun 2002 01:09

Re: Re: Source Code Control [was something else]

Bill de hÓra (dehora <at> eircom.net) wrote:
> the only thing that could shift
> me off is either an OS that had version management baked in (yeah
> right, but why the hell don't they?) or really good WebDAV tools.

VMS?

I have no idea why more/modern OSes don't have this feature.  I swear
about the lack thereof at least three times a week.

It looks as if SnapFS on Linux
(http://old.lwn.net/2001/0308/kernel.php3) may be working down a
similar, very lovely looking, path.

-a.

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Brian Button | 1 Jun 2002 01:47
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Re: Re: Honest inquiry

Eclipse is pretty modular, so a new story right now can pretty easily be
done with TDD. Its pieces are broken up into plugins, which are logically
separate units of functionality. As it stands now, each of these plugins has
hundreds of unit tests, and they've even built a way to run eclipse inside
eclipse so that you can run unit tests on plugins you are building. And the
developers of the refactoring plugin (org.eclipse.jdt.ui.refactoring IIRC)
are quite proud of the fact that they are practicing TDD as they add new
refactorings.

If anyone is interested, I'm building a plugin right now, and I'd be happy
to share some of what I've learned about developing plugins using TDD in
eclipse. All I want/need now is a pair...

bab
---
Brian Button             bbutton <at> objectmentor.com
Senior Consultant    http://www.objectmentor.com
Object Mentor, Inc.

Extreme Programming in St. Louis http://groups.yahoo.com/group/xpstl
----- Original Message -----
From: <schroeder <at> surfree.com>
To: <extremeprogramming <at> yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 10:58 AM
Subject: Re: [XP] Re: Honest inquiry

> It might be very interesting to see a log of test-
> driving a couple of new stories for a program
> like Eclipse or Word.  A higher-level log of the
> stories implemented over time and how the
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Dossy | 1 Jun 2002 02:24
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Re: Prefix, postfix or infix quoting?

On 2002.06.01, Stefan Schmiedl <s <at> xss.de> wrote:
> > On days when I'm too busy to really read through mail, I simply do
> > "l~Bdossy" to find any messages that mention my name (typically,
> > replies to messages I've written or replies to threads I've replied
> > to).  I pick up the other mail later on when I've got more time.
> 
> keep on talking :-)
> it's a pity that this does not work across multiple mailboxes.

Yes and no.  I used to be a big "procmail everything into seperate
folders" kinda person until I improved my Mutt-fu.  Now, my
.procmailrc is pretty bare and I let everything come into my
main mailfile and I sort things in Mutt into folders after I've
read them.

Once you learn enough Mutt-fu, you won't need to have incoming
mail go into seperate folders.  Really.

Using Mutt's tag-thread and save-tagged to drop whole threads
from my main mailfile into my subfolders works wonders, too.

> > Another very powerful feature of Mutt is it's sort-by-score
> > feature.  I can score things (such as mails by Ron Jeffries,
> > or those with specific keywords I'm interested in, etc.) and
> > have them float to the top (or bottom) of my mailbox.  Incredibly
> > useful if you don't want to cherry-pick the interesting messages
> > out of a 600+ message mailfile.
> 
> maybe it's time to revisit this, as I didn't get it right,
> when I tried it last time.
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ejfried | 1 Jun 2002 02:54
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OneButtonTestimonial


We're a group of confirmed Emacs addicts working on a 130 KLOC Java
project (about half those LOCs are unit tests) using 'make' as the
build tool. We're very happy with this toolset and wouldn't trade it
for anything. Anybody who has worked in this kind of environment knows
that it's a simple matter to compile and test your code -- no more
than three or four keystrokes to change to the right buffer, compile,
and run the entire test suite.

As the project has grown, though, the test suite has gotten bigger and
slower. Despite lots of effort towards speeding it up, the ~7000 tests
take about four minutes to run if you run them all. So our modified
version of JUnit, and our Makefiles, and our project conventions, work
together to let you easily run just the tests for one class, or one
package, or one module. Until today, this has involved typing the
class name and part of the package name for the class you want to
test, maybe 20 or 30 keystrokes. total.

This is sufficiently inconvenient that the typical coding cycle became
code, compile, code, compile, code, compile, test one class, code,
compile, code, compile, code, compile, run the whole test suite. You'd
go several minutes between testing the class being modified, and
perhaps twenty or more minutes between running the whole
suite. Obviously, this isn't ideal, but it sounds so wimpy to say that
twenty or thirty keystrokes was too much work and was impacting our
process, that we just let things be.

Today I was inspired by the "One Button Testing" thread to write an
Emacs macro which figures out the appropriate class and package name,
computes (by our convention) the name of the corresponding test class,
(Continue reading)

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Jim Hyslop | 1 Jun 2002 04:44
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RE: RUP as an opportunity - Was Moving Towards Confusion

Griffin Caprio [griffincaprio <at> hotmail.com] wrote:
> Hi, Kay,
> >I'm not finding out how to write it properly, here.  I *am* 
> finding a 
> >lot of things that the CCTeamLead says are the way to go aren't.
> >
> >Did that sentence make sense?
> 
> not really. <grin>
Hmmm... I understood it. Should I be worried? ;-)

--

-- 
Jim

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kentlbeck | 1 Jun 2002 05:48

Re: Honest inquiry

--- In extremeprogramming <at> y..., Bill de hÓra <dehora <at> e...> wrote:
>  
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Alan C Francis [mailto:listsub <at> t...] 
> > Sent: 31 May 2002 22:39
> > To: extremeprogramming <at> y...
> > Subject: Re: [XP] Re: Honest inquiry
> > 
> > 
> > JUnit is, but it's still not a particularly large example...
> 
> Sure, it's probably what, under 5-6Kloc including tests? Keeping
> large an intuitive matter for now that probably has some
> correlation with lines of code, what's the basis for resisting TDD
> based on largeness so long as you're modularizing things? I'm
> thinking if it can be done for 5Kloc it can be done for 10Kloc. Now
> in my mind 30Kloc is an upper bound on a software module in a C
> based language (and probably less than that for C itself), i.e., if
> you have 50Kloc, look to modularize, you'll be glad you did. A
> composition of twenty 30Kloc applications is likely to be easier to
> control and maintain and reason about than a 500,000Kloc monoblock
> java system (if not, why not?). though if you're building
> multimillion line systems from large (100Kloc+) subsystems, TDD
> scaling is possibly the least of your worries. 
> 
> Essentially, I'm comfortable making the guess that TDD scales up to
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Ellen Ferlazzo | 1 Jun 2002 06:32

RE: Secure Messaging Non-Delivery Report: Re: Hyperproductive developers was Re: Moving towards Confusion?


  >-----Original Message-----
  >From: Dinwiddie, George [mailto:George.Dinwiddie <at> arbitron.com] 

  >This stuff seems to be getting out of hand.  It's bad that 
  >companies are filtering based on content (apparently using a 
  >dictionary of forbidden words).  It's worse that they're 
  >reporting it to the wrong person

No, the worst is when they just delete all emails and notify no one!
Truly. A former client's security group decided that all attachments
were evil. Any email with an attachment was deleted. Neither sender nor
receiver was notified.  Took us a bit of time to figure out why they
thought WE were "not communicating."

E l l e n  F e r l a z z o
software designer / writer / project manager           
www.sprez.com 

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Mike Clark | 1 Jun 2002 15:37

Re: binary search, test first, by intention

Ron Jeffries wrote:

>
>Well ... I have a pattern that sounds similar. I get better objects if
>I start "top down" or "breadth first".
>
>However, since I try to practice YAGNI, I /cannot/ write rangeNotEmpty
>or midrange first. So I don't have quite the same reaction to the
>forces that you describe here ...
>

Excellent point.

If rangeNotEmpty had been more complex such that you feared going too 
long without the binsrch test passing, would you have written an 
individual test for rangeNotEmpty?  Maybe that's more depth first.  

Lately I've been listening for tests that break encapsulation in the 
name of testability.  It's usually a result of trying to individually 
test methods like rangeNotEmpty that are already being tested through 
binsrch.  To your point, it's also a result of not practicing YAGNI.  

Mike

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Paul Michali | 1 Jun 2002 14:40
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Re: Re: Source Code Control

manaster <at> pobox.com wrote:
> 
> Bill asks:
> >Can you say more about your setup and what you mean by weird?
> 
> It's VB6 running on Windows NT something-or-other, with a
> not-quite-current version of WinCVS.

Hmm. I only toyed with VB for a very short time, but I do recall
some odd things (we used ClearCase). It was something like having
to check out the project file (I think), just to be able to work
with the project and I vaguely recall something about VB modifying
files all the time, such that they all had to be checked in, even
when making a minor change. Maybe someone with more experience with
VB can give you more accurate info...

> 
> Weird?  You add files to a repository, and it complains that they're
> binary, not text, so it won't add them, but it does anyways.  You
> don't change anything, yet it finds a heap of differences and won't
> let you check in without "resolving" the conflict.

I'm using version 1.3.4.3 Beta 4 of WinCVS. I also have it set not
to use locking. I unchecked the box 'Checkout read-only' under the
general tab, before checking out the whole tree. Then, after making
changes, I just do a "commit" to refresh the VC. I find this is an
easy way to work.

>  It gives messages
> in a variety of colors, which evidently have some meaning, but not
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manaster | 1 Jun 2002 11:07
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Re: Source Code Control

Bill asks:
>Can you say more about your setup and what you mean by weird?

It's VB6 running on Windows NT something-or-other, with a 
not-quite-current version of WinCVS.

Weird?  You add files to a repository, and it complains that they're 
binary, not text, so it won't add them, but it does anyways.  You 
don't change anything, yet it finds a heap of differences and won't 
let you check in without "resolving" the conflict.  It gives messages 
in a variety of colors, which evidently have some meaning, but not 
for me (and yes, I have RTFM).  You refresh the display to see if 
anything's new, it says nothing is, then when you try to commit your 
changes it says that there are conflicts.  The conflict marks that it 
inserts into the files prevent VB from loading the files, so they 
must be edited in some advanced text processor like Notepad instead. 
That's all I can think of off the top of my head...

>I guess that your issues seem to be with CVS (and at work
>Windows/WinCVS more than CVS) rather than SCC and I doubt VSS would
>simplify your life in that regard. The main other people seem to
>use is Clearcase, which I don’t know anything about.
>
>Forgoing SCC is madness I say, madness...

I'm not agin SCC in principle, but the practice as I have seen it 
leaves so much to be desired that I'm comfortable with this 
particular form of madness.

Cheers,
(Continue reading)

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Gmane