Re: Heading towards Calendar 1.0 Beta 1

Stefan Sitter schrieb:
> Philipp Kewisch wrote:
>> IMPORTANT:Note however as we've announced in an earlier blog post
>> [3] this will be the last release for the time being that
>> includes Sunbird. This means that now more than ever, testing is
>> needed to make sure that Sunbird doesn't contain any critical
>> bugs.
> 
> Do you mean Sunbird 1.0 Beta 1 will be the last release? Or Sunbird 1.0? 
> In the former case I'd say that at least all the blocking1.0 bugs must 
> be fixed first.
> 
> I hope you do not plan to turn off the Sunbird build servers afterwards. 
> Without the nightly builds it will be impossible to attract new 
> developers I'd say.

FWIW, I agree with Stefan and Martin, that the last official release of 
Sunbird should be a real release, not just a beta version. Skipping the 
QA work for a Sunbird 1.0 beta release in favour of a final Sunbird 1.0 
release sounds like a good plan to me.

If keeping the Sunbird build machines is a big help for the QA process, 
as Stefan repeatedly tried to explain, then please consider keeping 
those alive even after the 1.0 timeframe.

I'm happy to help out as time permits.

Just my two cents,
Sebo

Operation 2 for 1 - celebrating one year of Thunderbird bugday - day 2

Happy Birthday!

Check out the chart on the birthday blog at 
http://quality.mozilla.org/story/one-year-thunderbird-bugdays

To celebrate the first year of weekly bugdays for Thunderbird we are 
organizing a two day bugday (both on a Thursday) with a very special 
rule - *an incentive*. If you come and participate to the bug day and 
update at least two bugs we will assist you on one of your 
*mail-related* bugs (giving it triage love - trying to find a solution 
or a workaround for the bug). The first day will be running this 
Thursday, 2009-04-02!

Now is the perfect time to join the Thunderbird QA team as Thunderbird 
3.0 is approaching. You'll be participating in making sure that 3.0 
becomes the best release of Thunderbird - *you'll feel that the program 
you use daily is a bit more yours*.

The team has posted detailed instructions on what needs to be done, 
where to get help, and bugs that need attention at 
https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird:QA_TestDay:2009-04-02 and there is 
an "Attend Event" link at

http://quality.mozilla.org/events/2009/apr/02/operation-2-1-celebrating-one-year-thunderbird-bugday-day-2 
(note, due to a bug, the date is incorrectly listed as April 1. Bugday 
is indeed *April 2* ... no fooling)

Re: Reminders forever

Ingo Ratsdorf schrieb:
> Hmm, am I the only one who's got this particular problem?
> It's not limited to any particular machine, but maybe it's just my 
> google calendar?
> Everytime Thunderbird reloads the calendars (30 mins), it pops up with 
> the reminders again and again, despite me dismissing them.
> I updated to the latest nighly build (22 March I believe) but it hasn't 
> changed anything.
> 
> On 19/03/2009 7:21 a.m., Ingo Ratsdorf wrote:
>> I have 3 Google calendars that I am accessing through Lightning.
>> Since I installed Thunderbird 3b2 with either the February nighly built
>> version of Lightning and Gdata-provider or the latest March 17 version,
>> I have recurring reminders.
>> You can dismiss them all, but they will pop up again after some time,
>> about a dozen times a day.
>>
>> Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1b3pre)
>> Gecko/20090223 Lightning/1.0pre Thunderbird/3.0b2
> 

I just had a similar issue when opening TB2.0 with Lightning 0.9/GData 
Provider at home with an event w/ reminder which I added during the day 
in Shredder/Lightning 1.0pre.

Although the event passed a couple of hours ago, the reminder window 
popped up, and the "Dismiss/Dismiss All" buttons without effect. The 
reminder window just sat there, beeping again and again. Nothing in the 
error console.

Re: Heading towards Calendar 1.0 Beta 1

On 4/1/09 4:18 AM, Sebastian Schwieger wrote:
>
> FWIW, I agree with Stefan and Martin, that the last official release of
> Sunbird should be a real release, not just a beta version. Skipping the
> QA work for a Sunbird 1.0 beta release in favour of a final Sunbird 1.0
> release sounds like a good plan to me.

Unfortunately, that has several problems:

* it would set exactly the wrong expectation for end-users: it would be 
encouraging them to entrust their data to an application which is likely 
to not move forward

* it would lead to shipping a buggy version of Sunbird 1.0

* Sunbird would continue to exert drag on Lightning until 1.0 shipped.

Dan

Re: Heading towards Calendar 1.0 Beta 1

On 3/29/09 5:00 AM, Stefan Sitter wrote:
>> I disagree. We should proceed. And proceeding means releasing
>> once in a while. It's sad that Sunbird has to go, but repeated
>> requests for a new maintainer have not sparked a response, so
>> there's really nothing we can do that would not adversely affect
>> Lightning on the other hand.
>
> This doesn't sounds like a good plan. I suggest to skip Sunbird 1.0b1
> and release only Lightning 1.0b1. Later release a stable Sunbird 1.0
> together with Lightning 1.0 that contains the bug
> fixes.

The problem is that there's no guarantee (or even likelihood, given past 
experience) that anyone will sign up to do that work at some later date. 
  Trading off one certain final release now against the small 
probability of a release later doesn't seem fair to existing users.

> As long as nightly builds exist Sunbird users and contributors like me
> can test them and provide patches for Sunbird and calendar features. If
> no builds exists it is much harder to attract new Sunbird testers and
> contributors.

This is a fair point.

> If the server cycles are required for other jobs I could imagine the
> following: Turn off only the 'sunbird build' servers but keep the
> 'sunbird nightly' servers.

I'd be interested in hearing from gozer (who does the work of running 
those servers): if he feels that the effort and hardware costs are 

Re: Heading towards Calendar 1.0 Beta 1

On 3/30/09 9:48 AM, Stefan Sitter wrote:
> Speaking for myself the opposite is true. If Sunbird is stopped
> completely, all build servers are terminated and contributors are
> discouraged to work on Sunbird I don't see any reason for further
> contributions to the calendar project.

You've done a lot of great work for the calendar project over the years; 
it will make me sad if you decide to stop contributing entirely.  I can 
think of a bunch of great ways you could use your talents to make 
Lightning better.

Dan

Re: CalDav and ITIP/IMIP issues?

On 3/30/09 12:39 PM, aapthorp <at> gmail.com wrote:
> Just updated to latest nightly and T3b2 and am observing the
> following:
>
> 1) Incoming IMIP/ITIP invitations not recognised, just treated as an e-
> mail with an attachment.
>
> 2) "Failed to parse item:" error on some calendar items received via
> CalDav. Checking the code this error can appear under a couple of
> conditions. Works fine under 0.9.
>
> Before I log these as bugs I was wondering if I'd missed something in
> moving to the latest builds.

Not that I'm aware of.  Generally speaking, it's worth just going ahead 
and filing bugs, rather than asking here first.  If it turns out to be 
INVALID, or not a real bug, it'll get marked that way in Bugzilla.

Dan

Re: Heading towards Calendar 1.0 Beta 1

On 3/30/09 10:08 AM, Stefan Sitter wrote:
> Simon Paquet wrote:
>> 1.0 beta is as much a release as was 0.3, 0.5, 0.7, 0.8 or 0.9.
>
> I disagree. In the previous releases new features were stabilized,
> finalized if possible and the most painful errors and regressions (i.e.
> the blocking bugs) were fixed before release. Your other answer to me
> indicates that this is not planed for 1.0 bet

My reading of Philipp's post was that the current belief is that the 
nightlies are sufficiently stable for beta as they are now.  Do you 
disagree?

> That means we would release an unfinished build based on a new platform
> with know errors and regressions. In that case it might be better to
> stay with 0.9.

Worth considering, perhaps, if I'm wrong above.

> I still don't understand the difference between spending resources now
> on doing a Sunbird 1.0 beta release versus spending the same resources
> in two or three months on doing a Sunbird 1.0 release release instead.

I suspect I can answer your question above, but I first need to 
understand what branches of which repositories Sunbird nightlies are 
currently being built from.  Do you know?

Dan

Re: Heading towards Calendar 1.0 Beta 1

Dan Mosedale schrieb:
> On 4/1/09 4:18 AM, Sebastian Schwieger wrote:
>> FWIW, I agree with Stefan and Martin, that the last official release of
>> Sunbird should be a real release, not just a beta version. Skipping the
>> QA work for a Sunbird 1.0 beta release in favour of a final Sunbird 1.0
>> release sounds like a good plan to me.
>
> Unfortunately, that has several problems:
>
> * it would set exactly the wrong expectation for end-users: it would be
> encouraging them to entrust their data to an application which is likely
> to not move forward

Why would a final version (which could be declared as "that's it, no new 
version planned atm") lead to expectations more than a beta? I beta 
always sounds like it's on the way to final (at least for me and other 
people in my surrounding)

> * it would lead to shipping a buggy version of Sunbird 1.0

Why that? It shouldn't be more buggy than 1.0 beta o_0
(I'm not into it so maybe an explanation can shed some light on that)

> * Sunbird would continue to exert drag on Lightning until 1.0 shipped.

As long as Lightning doesn't work with Seamonkey2.0 for instance and 
nothing but Thunderbird there a people who can't/don't want to "migrate" 
anyway, as switching to TB is not their intention.
Working with a (stable) final until there is a solution would be nice.

Re: Heading towards Calendar 1.0 Beta 1

On 04/02/2009 06:03 AM, Martin Feitag wrote:
>> * Sunbird would continue to exert drag on Lightning until 1.0 shipped.
>
> As long as Lightning doesn't work with Seamonkey2.0 for instance and
> nothing but Thunderbird there a people who can't/don't want to
> "migrate" anyway, as switching to TB is not their intention.
> Working with a (stable) final until there is a solution would be nice.
I would love to see support for Seamonkey-2.0 and Lightning. I dont
really see what supporting Seamonkey-2.0 is bad idea?
At this time I don't see a calendar for Seamonkey-2.0.

--

-- 
Sincerely Yours,
    John Vivirito

https://launchpad.net/~gnomefreak
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JohnVivirito
Linux User# 414246

"How can i get lost, if i have no where to go"
    -- Metallica from Unforgiven III

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