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François Revol | 2 Jan 22:48
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Call for participation to the Alt-OS devroom at FOSDEM (Extended deadline)

Hello,

This year, the FOSDEM (in Brussels, 6-7th February 2010) will host the
"Alt-OS" devroom on sunday from 9:00 to 17:00.

This devroom is meant as a place for Free and OpenSource Alternative
Operating System projects to share ideas and work on topics like:

    * distinguishing design and features,
    * device drivers and how to share them,
    * sharing code for internal components,
    * internal usage of other FOSS projects to build upon,
    * application portability,
    * interoperability,
          o file formats,
          o extended attributes... 

We are very interested to hear about your project on all those aspects, 
and of course we'd be happy to help you set up a hacking session or 
other form of gathering eventually, depending on the schedule.

See the complete call for participation.
http://groups.google.com/group/rosetta-os/browse_thread/thread/16964e21bef27116

The deadline for the propositions for the Alt-OS devroom at FOSDEM has 
been extended to 2010-01-05, to allow at least one talk per project.
The shedule must be sent rapidly to the FOSDEM team so we can't stretch 
it much more.

François.
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Da Zheng | 27 Jan 12:15
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DDE Linux26 in the Hurd

Hello,

I have managed to port DDE linux26 to the Hurd. At least it works with NIC
drivers now.

A few problems:
1. dde linux26 doesn't support multiple PCI buses. Unfortunately, my virtual
machine has two PCI buses: bus 0 and bus 2. Now I have to hardcode the bus
numbers in the code. Do you have plan to support multiple PCI buses?
2. DDE Linux26 doesn't support sound card drivers.

Does DDE Linux26 support the block device and character device?

Zheng Da
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Björn Döbel | 27 Jan 13:03
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Re: DDE Linux26 in the Hurd


Hi,

> I have managed to port DDE linux26 to the Hurd. At least it works with NIC
> drivers now.

Congratulations. :)

> A few problems:
> 1. dde linux26 doesn't support multiple PCI buses. Unfortunately, my virtual
> machine has two PCI buses: bus 0 and bus 2. Now I have to hardcode the bus
> numbers in the code. Do you have plan to support multiple PCI buses?

Our approach is to provide the application with a single logical PCI bus
within DDEKit and have a management component that parses the real PCI
bus and multiplexes accesses. Have a look at l4/pkg/l4io. As in most of
the cases you only use one device within a DDEKit-based application, we
did not see any real benefit of supporting multiple PCI buses in DDE.

> 2. DDE Linux26 doesn't support sound card drivers.
> 
> Does DDE Linux26 support the block device and character device?

The answer for all points is that this is usually a matter of adding the
corresponding Linux code and maybe some glue code. We did this for
character, sound and block devices to a certain point. However, there is
no releasable code, yet.

Cheers,
Bjoern
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Da Zheng | 27 Jan 13:41
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Re: DDE Linux26 in the Hurd

Hi,

On 10-1-27 下午8:03, Björn Döbel wrote:
>> I have managed to port DDE linux26 to the Hurd. At least it works with NIC
>> drivers now.
> 
> Congratulations. :)
Thank you.
> 
>> A few problems:
>> 1. dde linux26 doesn't support multiple PCI buses. Unfortunately, my virtual
>> machine has two PCI buses: bus 0 and bus 2. Now I have to hardcode the bus
>> numbers in the code. Do you have plan to support multiple PCI buses?
> 
> Our approach is to provide the application with a single logical PCI bus
> within DDEKit and have a management component that parses the real PCI
> bus and multiplexes accesses. Have a look at l4/pkg/l4io. As in most of
> the cases you only use one device within a DDEKit-based application, we
> did not see any real benefit of supporting multiple PCI buses in DDE.
OK, I see your point and I believe that one device doesn't use two buses, but I
didn't see how a logical PCI bus is mapped to a physical one. ddekit_pci_init calls
        err = l4io_pci_find_device(~0, ~0, start, &l4dev);
to search for buses, which calls a RPC to the kernel, but every DDEKIT
application starts with 0. I don't see where is your management component and
how it chooses the right bus for the device.

> 
>> 2. DDE Linux26 doesn't support sound card drivers.
>>
>> Does DDE Linux26 support the block device and character device?
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Björn Döbel | 27 Jan 13:51
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Re: DDE Linux26 in the Hurd


>>> 1. dde linux26 doesn't support multiple PCI buses. Unfortunately, my virtual
>>> machine has two PCI buses: bus 0 and bus 2. Now I have to hardcode the bus
>>> numbers in the code. Do you have plan to support multiple PCI buses?
>> Our approach is to provide the application with a single logical PCI bus
>> within DDEKit and have a management component that parses the real PCI
>> bus and multiplexes accesses. Have a look at l4/pkg/l4io. As in most of
>> the cases you only use one device within a DDEKit-based application, we
>> did not see any real benefit of supporting multiple PCI buses in DDE.
> OK, I see your point and I believe that one device doesn't use two buses, but I
> didn't see how a logical PCI bus is mapped to a physical one. ddekit_pci_init calls
>         err = l4io_pci_find_device(~0, ~0, start, &l4dev);
> to search for buses, which calls a RPC to the kernel, but every DDEKIT
> application starts with 0. I don't see where is your management component and
> how it chooses the right bus for the device.

The L4IO server scans all PCI devices at startup. DDE applications use
l4io_pci_find_device() to iterate over all the devices and assign them a
local/logical PCI ID. So, yes, for a DDE application it always looks
like there is only one PCI bus (bus 0) with a continuous range of devices.

>>> 2. DDE Linux26 doesn't support sound card drivers.
>>>
>>> Does DDE Linux26 support the block device and character device?
>> The answer for all points is that this is usually a matter of adding the
>> corresponding Linux code and maybe some glue code. We did this for
>> character, sound and block devices to a certain point. However, there is
>> no releasable code, yet.
> So are you still working on supporting character, sound and block devices?
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Da Zheng | 27 Jan 14:18
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Re: DDE Linux26 in the Hurd

Hi,

On 10-1-27 下午8:51, Björn Döbel wrote:
>>>> 1. dde linux26 doesn't support multiple PCI buses. Unfortunately, my virtual
>>>> machine has two PCI buses: bus 0 and bus 2. Now I have to hardcode the bus
>>>> numbers in the code. Do you have plan to support multiple PCI buses?
>>> Our approach is to provide the application with a single logical PCI bus
>>> within DDEKit and have a management component that parses the real PCI
>>> bus and multiplexes accesses. Have a look at l4/pkg/l4io. As in most of
>>> the cases you only use one device within a DDEKit-based application, we
>>> did not see any real benefit of supporting multiple PCI buses in DDE.
>> OK, I see your point and I believe that one device doesn't use two buses, but I
>> didn't see how a logical PCI bus is mapped to a physical one. ddekit_pci_init calls
>>         err = l4io_pci_find_device(~0, ~0, start, &l4dev);
>> to search for buses, which calls a RPC to the kernel, but every DDEKIT
>> application starts with 0. I don't see where is your management component and
>> how it chooses the right bus for the device.
> 
> The L4IO server scans all PCI devices at startup. DDE applications use
> l4io_pci_find_device() to iterate over all the devices and assign them a
> local/logical PCI ID. So, yes, for a DDE application it always looks
> like there is only one PCI bus (bus 0) with a continuous range of devices.
You mean all devices in the system are in one logical bus, which can have at
most 256*32 devices? It's a little odd, but should work fine.
The current code of ddekit and dde linux26 obviously can only work in a system
with one bus as the maximal number of pci devices in ddekit is 32.
> 
>>>> 2. DDE Linux26 doesn't support sound card drivers.
>>>>
>>>> Does DDE Linux26 support the block device and character device?
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Da Zheng | 27 Jan 14:24
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Re: DDE Linux26 in the Hurd

On 10-1-27 下午8:51, Björn Döbel wrote:
> Yes. In our current (unreleased) versions, input devices work. Sound and
> block support has not been driven to an acceptible point, yet. There is
> also a USB package in the public SVN, fyi.
By the way, I forget to ask: how well can DDE FreeBSD support these devices? Is
it still under development?

Best regards,
Zheng Da

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Björn Döbel | 27 Jan 14:52
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Re: DDE Linux26 in the Hurd


Da Zheng wrote:
> On 10-1-27 下午8:51, Björn Döbel wrote:
>> Yes. In our current (unreleased) versions, input devices work. Sound and
>> block support has not been driven to an acceptible point, yet. There is
>> also a USB package in the public SVN, fyi.
> By the way, I forget to ask: how well can DDE FreeBSD support these devices? Is
> it still under development?

No idea. The DDE/FBSD work has been done to the point where it supported
an ATA block device driver. So, probably you'd need to add more code if
you wanted to run a BSD NIC driver with it.

Bjoern
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Björn Döbel | 27 Jan 14:54
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Re: DDE Linux26 in the Hurd


Hi,

>> The L4IO server scans all PCI devices at startup. DDE applications use
>> l4io_pci_find_device() to iterate over all the devices and assign them a
>> local/logical PCI ID. So, yes, for a DDE application it always looks
>> like there is only one PCI bus (bus 0) with a continuous range of devices.
> You mean all devices in the system are in one logical bus, which can have at
> most 256*32 devices? It's a little odd, but should work fine.
> The current code of ddekit and dde linux26 obviously can only work in a system
> with one bus as the maximal number of pci devices in ddekit is 32.

Yes, there is a physical limitation with the current approach. Our more
recent ideas however go more into a direction where a physical IO
manager provides applications with pre-configured virtual PCI buses, so
that we did not really hit this limitation yet, because we provide for
instance the NIC driver with a virtual PCI bus that only contains the NIC.

> I would like to know how well the current release of dde linux26 can support
> block devices and character devices as I want to try some devices other than
> NIC. For example, does it support SCSI disks?

Not yet.

> I see the USB package. Maybe I can try that since the Hurd doesn't have USB
> drivers yet.

Sure, good luck. ;)

Bjoern
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Da Zheng | 27 Jan 15:13
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Re: DDE Linux26 in the Hurd

On 10-1-27 下午9:52, Björn Döbel wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Da Zheng wrote:
>> On 10-1-27 下午8:51, Björn Döbel wrote:
>>> Yes. In our current (unreleased) versions, input devices work. Sound and
>>> block support has not been driven to an acceptible point, yet. There is
>>> also a USB package in the public SVN, fyi.
>> By the way, I forget to ask: how well can DDE FreeBSD support these devices? Is
>> it still under development?
> 
> No idea. The DDE/FBSD work has been done to the point where it supported
> an ATA block device driver. So, probably you'd need to add more code if
> you wanted to run a BSD NIC driver with it.
I take it as DDE/FBSD is only used to demonstrate the idea of DDE. I certainly
don't want to develop it myself. I hope your group provide a relatively complete
library to support all kinds of drivers, so I can make use of it:-) I think I
just keep on DDE Linux26.

Best regards,
Zheng Da

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Gmane