Richard Fateman | 2 Jun 21:14 2003
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Macsyma 2.4 documentation

Various documents from the CD-ROM are currently posted at this
location:

http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~fateman/macsyma/docs/

The instructions on the CDROM are posted at
http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~fateman/macsyma/cdreadme.txt

which suggests that the recipient is encouraged to "pass
the demonstration programs [presumably with documentation!]
along to your associates."

I have notified Kalman Reti, reti <at> ai.mit.edu, the only person I have been
able to identify with the sale of commercial
Macsyma, of this posting.  He has not objected or responded.

The documents are in pdf format, but at least for my reader seem
to start up somewhere other than page 1.  If you click on |< it
goes to the first page.  The directory looks like this.

[   ] frontend.pdf            23-May-2003 13:34  824K
[   ] graph24.pdf             23-May-2003 13:43  704K
[   ] intro.pdf               23-May-2003 13:39  891K
[   ] refman16.pdf            23-May-2003 13:48  7.1M
[   ] userg.pdf               23-May-2003 13:58  2.7M

Most material is of course specific to commercial macsyma 2.4, but
much is also relevant to earlier versions.

Good luck.
(Continue reading)

Camm Maguire | 2 Jun 23:56 2003

Re: Not every 3-metric is conformally flat

Greetings, and thanks for your reply!  So if I understand you,

1) you agree that the response "this spacetime is conformally flat"
   needs revision
2) there is a genuine issue with tsetup/xmaxima/gcl-cmucl-sbcl.

Should these be entered into maxima's bug system?  Specifically with
regardsa to 2), is there any understanding why this is lisp
implementation dependent?  I take it this is not a readline issue?

I agree with your other comments regarding the proper syntax for
computing the weyl tensor.

Many thanks again,

Valery Pipin <pip <at> iszf.irk.ru> writes:

> Hello,
> 
> On Monday 26 May 2003 00:00, Camm Maguire wrote:
> CM>forwarded 191671 maxima <at> www.ma.utexas.edu
> CM>thanks
> CM>
> CM>
> CM>Greetings!  This bug has been filed by a Debian maxima user and looks
> CM>to be an issue with maxima proper.  I'm away from my email until 6/1,
> CM>and cannot receive sourceforge mail as my ISP blocks it as spam.  I
> CM>therefore cannot usefully register the bug on the website.  Please
> CM>excuse therefore the submission to this list instead.
> CM>
(Continue reading)

hugo tapia s. | 3 Jun 01:00 2003
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i need help

i am looking for the  solution of diff equation:
g*m*cos(v)+(h/sqrt(h^2+d^2)-1)*k*cos(v)+m*'diff(d,t,2)=sin(w*t)*cos(w*t)*cos(v);
were:
cos(v)=cos(atang(d/h));
and:
g,m,h,k are know,
i am interesting in the solution in d for w=0,2 and t=0,10
thank to all
hugo
C Y | 3 Jun 15:37 2003
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Re: Macsyma is still sold???


--- C Y <smustudent1 <at> yahoo.com> wrote:
> However, thus far I haven't seen any direct
> evidence that Symbolics has Macsyma to offer, and my email asking
> about it was never answered.

OK, for the record this has now changed.  I contacted David K. Schmidt
of Symbolics, and it's now official - they are selling the Windows
version of Macsyma, sorta.  Here's what I know from his email:

"The owner of Symbolics bought Macsyma back 1999.  In the course of the
next year he lost all of the employees, had to put the assets
(including the servers with the source code) into storage and cease
operations.  He tasked to me to continue selling Macsyma through
Symbolics to anyone that wanted.  When the Macsyma servers went down,
their website went off the net and subsequently, someone else picked up
the domain name."

That explains what happened to the macsyma.com address.

"We sell a Macsyma CD with keys to the Windows version of Macsyma and 
PDEase for $500.  There is no hard copy documentation and no support 
available.  I do not have the Linux version and do not have the ability
to generate a key for the Unix version."

So there we have it.  Apparently there isn't enough funding to restart
active development right now.  I just hope those hard disks don't go
bad in storage.  Does sound like the hope is to do something with it
someday, so I suspect buying the rights to the code might be a tad
expensive :-(.  I didn't ask though.

There currently isn't any info about Macsyma on the Symbolics website. 
Here's the guy to contact:  (Note - he also is the Lisp Machine guy, if
anyone is still into Lisp machines.)

DAVID K. SCHMIDT
Dir. of Sales & Maintenance Operations
Symbolics
P.O. Box 10862, Burke, VA  22009
703-455-0430  (voice)
703-440-0388  (fax)
dkschmidt <at> compuserve.com

Personally, the no support thing kinda ma

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Martin RUBEY | 3 Jun 15:52 2003
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Re: Macsyma is still sold???

Does anybody have any ideas how a cooperation could look like? I feel it's 
a shame that we don't have access to the bugfixes incorporated in the 
commercial version, nor to their buglist...

On the other hand, the answer sounds rather strange to me: Why does he 
state he's not able to generate a key for the unix version? What does this 
mean: he has no Linux version? I thought the source would be more or less 
the same - save the front-end, maybe...

I'm not sure what we have to offer, but maybe somebody has ideas...

(at least we can offer that we keep the community going)

Martin

On Tue, 3 Jun 2003, C Y wrote:

> "The owner of Symbolics bought Macsyma back 1999.  In the course of the
> next year he lost all of the employees, had to put the assets
> (including the servers with the source code) into storage and cease
> operations.  He tasked to me to continue selling Macsyma through
> Symbolics to anyone that wanted.  When the Macsyma servers went down,
> their website went off the net and subsequently, someone else picked up
> the domain name."
> 
> That explains what happened to the macsyma.com address.
> 
> "We sell a Macsyma CD with keys to the Windows version of Macsyma and 
> PDEase for $500.  There is no hard copy documentation and no support 
> available.  I do not have the Linux version and do not have the ability
> to generate a key for the Unix version."
> 
> So there we have it.  Apparently there isn't enough funding to restart
> active development right now.  I just hope those hard disks don't go
> bad in storage.  Does sound like the hope is to do something with it
> someday, so I suspect buying the rights to the code might be a tad
> expensive :-(.  I didn't ask though.
> 
> There currently isn't any info about Macsyma on the Symbolics website. 
> Here's the guy to contact:  (Note - he also is the Lisp Machine guy, if
> anyone is still into Lisp machines.)
> 
> DAVID K. SCHMIDT
> Dir. of Sales & Maintenance Operations
> Symbolics
> P.O. Box 10862, Burke, VA  22009
> 703-455-0430  (voice)
> 703-440-0388  (fax)
> dkschmidt <at> compuserve.com
> 
> Personally, the no support thing kinda ma
> 
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
> http://calendar.yahoo.com
> 
C Y | 3 Jun 17:38 2003
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Re: Macsyma is still sold???

--- Martin RUBEY <rubey <at> labri.fr> wrote:
> Does anybody have any ideas how a cooperation could look like? I feel
> it's a shame that we don't have access to the bugfixes incorporated 
> in the commercial version, nor to their buglist...

Agreed, particularly the bug list, but I don't think there is much we
can do about it.  I doubt a cooperation is likely - my sense is that
the owner wishes Macsyma to remain a commercial project. If such is the
case, helping the open source version won't benefit him much.

On a related, and possibly more promising note, are there any employees
still on the net who could give us a summary of what they had to do?  I
don't know what they can and can't say, but presumably they could at
least sketch the problem spots.

> On the other hand, the answer sounds rather strange to me: Why does
> he state he's not able to generate a key for the unix version? What 
> does this mean: he has no Linux version? I thought the source would 
> be more or less the same - save the front-end, maybe...

Probably it is.  I'm guessing that he has copies of the commercial CD
and a key generator for Windows, and that's it.  Apparently the key
system was different between Unix and Windows.  Presumably if they ever
fish the servers out they could find the other parts, but considering
the info about Macsyma isn't up on the website yet I'm guessing it's
not really a priority...

> I'm not sure what we have to offer, but maybe somebody has ideas...

I don't think we can offer much of anything that would interest a
commercial project.

> (at least we can offer that we keep the community going)

Since we do that anyway, without them giving up a thing, I suspect that
won't carry much weight.  Nor do I think we should worry about it too
much - we can and will do just fine on our own.  The bug list would be
nice, but it's not worth losing sleep over.

I think the evolution will be that Maxima will continue to catch up to
the commercial Macsyma for quite a while, but eventually we will be
close enough to it (assuming it remains a static target) that the
advantage of the commercial code starts to fade away. How long that
will be I have no idea, but I think it's safe to say that Macsyma won't
remain a viable commercial product forever unless some sort of ongoing
development starts taking place again.

CY

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Martin RUBEY | 3 Jun 17:47 2003
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Re: Macsyma is still sold???

On Tue, 3 Jun 2003, C Y wrote:

> On a related, and possibly more promising note, are there any employees
> still on the net who could give us a summary of what they had to do?  I
> don't know what they can and can't say, but presumably they could at
> least sketch the problem spots.

might be nice. However, I don't have the feeling that there was a great 
response to your (?) message on sci.math.symbolic asking for old user 
code for macsyma, was there? I feel that most people are not very 
interested...

> I think the evolution will be that Maxima will continue to catch up to
> the commercial Macsyma for quite a while, but eventually we will be
> close enough to it (assuming it remains a static target) that the
> advantage of the commercial code starts to fade away. How long that
> will be I have no idea, but I think it's safe to say that Macsyma won't
> remain a viable commercial product forever unless some sort of ongoing
> development starts taking place again.

This is what I think is rather sad about it - and I think it's very likely
that it's going to be that way... I believe it will be a long way to go
until maxima catches up, and then macsyma will be pretty much dead. I'd
rather have maxima catch up immediately (and keep macsyma alive). It's
just waste of brain, I think.

Martin
Stavros Macrakis | 3 Jun 18:00 2003
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RE: Macsyma is still sold???

> On a related, and possibly more promising note, are there any 
> employees still on the net who could give us a summary of 
> what they had to do?  I don't know what they can and can't 
> say, but presumably they could at least sketch the problem spots.

Yes, there are employees on the net, and some of them are sympathetic to
Maxima, but (a) they are bound by non-disclosure agreements; (b) I don't
see what they could say that could help us besides the code itself; (c)
the code itself belongs to Macsyma/Symbolics; (d) I have asked them
before for any code that does *not* belong to Macsyma/Symbolics (e.g.
code contributed by outside people), and have not gotten anything back.

Rumor has it that some ex-employees would be willing to slip us a copy
of the commercial code under the table, but it would be legally risky
for any of us to even *see* that code, much less use it.

     -s
C Y | 3 Jun 18:05 2003
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Re: Macsyma is still sold???


--- Martin RUBEY <rubey <at> labri.fr> wrote:
> On Tue, 3 Jun 2003, C Y wrote:
> 
> might be nice. However, I don't have the feeling that there was a
> great response to your (?) message on sci.math.symbolic asking for 
> old user code for macsyma, was there? I feel that most people are 
> not very interested...

I got a couple responses.  Dr. Rand generously contributed the code he
had written for his book - commiting to share/contrib is on my list,
once my home machine is operational again.  But on the whole, you're
right.  We would probably have to make a much bigger splash before
people think we're worth the effort.

> This is what I think is rather sad about it - and I think it's very
> likely that it's going to be that way... I believe it will be a long 
> way to go until maxima catches up, and then macsyma will be pretty 
> much dead.

I agree it is sad, but the situation is unfortunately not without
precident.  It's one of the serious drawbacks of commercial software
that the wheel seems to get reinvented for non-technical reasons every
so often. Fortunatley Maxima exists, so work doesn't have to begin from
scratch.

> I'd rather have maxima catch up immediately (and keep macsyma alive).
> It's just waste of brain, I think.

It is.  If a university or someone were to buy the code from Symbolics
and open it up, that would probably be the best case, but I don't see
that happening in a big hurry.

CY

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Raymond Toy | 3 Jun 18:05 2003
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Re: Macsyma is still sold???

>>>>> "CY" == C Y <smustudent1 <at> yahoo.com> writes:

    CY> On a related, and possibly more promising note, are there any employees
    CY> still on the net who could give us a summary of what they had to do?  I
    CY> don't know what they can and can't say, but presumably they could at
    CY> least sketch the problem spots.

The current Maxima bug list on Sourceforge lists about 200 bugs and
seems to be growing far faster than it is shrinking.  I don't think we
need to add yet another set of bugs from some other program to that
list. :-)

However, if they have solutions, that would be totally different. :-)

Ray

Gmane