Brent Simmons | 30 Jan 2010 20:19
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Turning off email-init list

Thanks, everybody!

This list has been fantastic. I wanted to gauge interest and feasibility, do some brainstorming, get
people's ideas on the record -- and this list has done all that and much more. It's been a wild and fun ride.

But this list has served its purpose, and it's time to turn it off, which I'm doing right now.

Rest assured: Letters progress will continue. I don't know how work will be structured in the future: we're
still in very early days, and there have been distractions like the iPad. (Which is part of why I'm many
hundreds of messages behind. I bet I'm not the only one.)

I wish I could just lay it out for you right now and say "go here to do x," but I can't, not yet.

We'll figure it out, though. Thanks for your patience!

And thanks, again, for all your help so far.

-Brent
Jared Earle | 30 Jan 2010 01:11
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Re: Icon design idea...

Just chucked this together. Someone do it better ...

http://img.skitch.com/20100129-gsengw2kwr6g53ggn32mbr6t2s.jpg

--
Jared Earle :: There is no SPORK
jearle@... :: http://jearle.eu
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Blog :: http://blog.23x.net
Alan Pyne | 30 Jan 2010 00:33
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Icon design idea

How about adopting the Trystero muted post horn symbol from Pynchon's The Crying of Lot 49?

http://cl49.pynchonwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=File:MutedPosthorn.png
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_horn

Here's why I think this could work well:

- it's meaningful (in the book, this symbol is representative of a secret postal service)
- it's symbolic, rather than literal (avoiding the various cultural variation problems covered earlier)
- it's distinctive (it has an alchemical feel to it, not unlike the Quicksilver icon - Letters is a power tool
for developers/computer "wizards" ;-)

--
Alan Pyne
LuKreme | 29 Jan 2010 21:42
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Re: Icon design idea...

On 29-Jan-2010, at 11:36, Robin Benson wrote:
> 
> On 30/01/2010, at 7:29 AM, LuKreme wrote:
>> Actually, I now think that the most obvious symbol is an  <at>  sign, and I think we should look at building an
icon around that.
> 
> There is nothing about the  <at>  sign that represents email at all!

Except for that niggling little fact that every single email address has an  <at>  sign in it, and has done for
about 20 years (since …!apple!ucsc!uscb!kreme addresses went away)

> It's about as much to do with email as the mail-truck, mail-box, European post-office emblem, mail-bag,
mail-sling, etc.

No, because those have no connection to email at all.

--

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	Aid, an I don't like PURPLE <sip sip> Kool Aid.

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Marc Kothe | 29 Jan 2010 19:45
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Re: Sent sorting (was: Feature Wish list - sorting mails)


> Please estimate - how much of your sent mails are new mails and how  
> much are replies?

For me it is about 50/50, both private and in business,

cheers,
Marc
Marc Kothe | 29 Jan 2010 18:35
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Re: Feature Wish list - sorting mails

Hi all,

the one feature that I am missing with almost all email clients is a "sort sent mails into folder XYZ"
functionality. I admit, it is an in-between of email client and CRM system, but it is extremely helpful, if
combined with both a targeted search in specific folders and a global search over all email folders. 
In the office I am forced to use MS Outlook, and we found the SpeedFiler extension, which is a smart solution
for this. SpeedFiler prompts you with smart suggestions for possible folders where the email might
belong to after hitting the sent-button. You can easily override the suggestions by typing in some
letters from the appropriate folder name. Also you can file the initial mail with the sent mail, if the sent
mail is a reply and both belong into the same folder.

Have a look, I really came to depend heavily on SpeedFiler, id it would be awesome to have the same (oar even
better) functionality on the Mac.

Cheers,
Marc
Jonathan LaCour | 29 Jan 2010 18:12
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Proclamations from the project leads

I haven't posted much on this list, but have attempted to keep up with
the conversation. Lately, it seems that things have degenerated. That is
not to say that there haven't been some good conversations, but we're in
dead horse territory at this point on some issues.

I know its been a busy week, what with the iPad insanity, but I'd love
to see the leadership (I'm looking at you Gus and John) step up and make
some declarations on some of the most contentious issues.

How about starting with HTML message composition? It seems to be a
sticking point on the list right now, and I'd love to see Gus and John
just come out and say "its out" (preferably) or "its in" so that the
discussion can move forward to other, more important topics.

At the same time, if the leadership is still soliciting feedback on an
issue, it might be good to say "we're not sure yet" to green light
further discussion.

--

-- 
Jonathan LaCour
http://cleverdevil.org
http://cleverdevil.org/train
http://web.shootq.com
Thomas Rhymer | 29 Jan 2010 17:05
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plain text and curse words

Folks,

Long time listener, first time caller.  I'm not a developer, but I am a "power user" in the sense that email is critical for work and I like to tinker with stuff.  Not proposing this definition as canonical, BTW.

I think this discussion is sort of framed wrong.

I like plain text and paid the heavy price for Mailsmith for that reason, even though I have zero use for filters, which is what that program is really about.  Stopped using it when it became more or less unusable.

Anyway, my recollection (which may be inaccurate) is that what I liked most about Mailsmith was:

(a) it (tried to) turn HTML email into something that I could read in plain text; and
(b) it didn't switch to a HTML or rich text mode without asking me, because that was what someone sent to me and it was just easier for the client to switch modes.

The point is that I like to read email in well-formatted plain text.

I know that there are some folks out there who want to force other people to use plain text all the time.  Those people lost their battle.  Really.  No, really.

On the other hand, there is a significant contingent of people who just want to live in plain text and coexist with the HTML world.  I use Mutt and GMail, and I like it.  But when I get an email in HTML, I have to switch to the browser.  I think if our imaginary client allowed you to stay in plain text mode (without switching things around behind your back for its own convenience) and read HTML mail in readable plain text with the HTML stripped out, that would more than satisfy most plain text folks.  The problem is that we're used to being treated as an after-thought and second class citizens, at best.  A little love would go a long way.

Yes, the text only purists are pining for a client that will only be used by fifteen people who are just going to end up switching back to Alpine and Mutt (or whatever it's calling itself this month) anyway.  But there is a middle way.

BTW, I think Mr. Welch is making a serious contribution here, potty mouth and all.

<div>
<div>Folks,</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Long time listener, first time caller. &nbsp;I'm not a developer, but I am a "power user" in the sense that email is critical for work and I like to tinker with stuff. &nbsp;Not proposing this definition as canonical, BTW.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>I think this discussion is sort of framed wrong.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>I like plain text and paid the heavy price for Mailsmith for that reason, even though I have zero use for filters, which is what that program is really about. &nbsp;Stopped using it when it became more or less unusable.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Anyway, my recollection (which may be inaccurate) is that what I liked most about Mailsmith was:</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>(a) it (tried to) turn HTML email into something that I could read in plain text; and</div>
<div>(b) it didn't switch to a HTML or rich text mode without asking me, because that was what someone sent to me and it was just easier for the client to switch modes.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>The point is that I like to read email in well-formatted plain text.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>I know that there are some folks out there who want to force other people to use plain text all the time. &nbsp;Those people lost their battle. &nbsp;Really. &nbsp;No, really.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>On the other hand, there is a significant contingent of people who just want to live in plain text and coexist with the HTML world. &nbsp;I use Mutt and GMail, and I like it. &nbsp;But when I get an email in HTML, I have to switch to the browser. &nbsp;I think if our imaginary client allowed you to stay in plain text mode (without switching things around behind your back for its own convenience) and read HTML mail in readable plain text with the HTML stripped out, that would more than satisfy most plain text folks. &nbsp;The problem is that we're used to being treated as an after-thought and second class citizens, at best. &nbsp;A little love would go a long way.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Yes, the text only purists are pining for a client that will only be used by fifteen people who are just going to end up switching back to Alpine and Mutt (or whatever it's calling itself this month) anyway. &nbsp;But there is a middle way.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>BTW, I think Mr. Welch is making a serious contribution here, potty mouth and all.</div>
<div><br></div>
</div>
*Pax* | 29 Jan 2010 15:55

Re: Icon design idea...

I'm just gonna throw my two cents in. I really liked the vintage typewriter key. Gets my vote of what I've seen
so far. Everyone has (had) typewriters, and an awful lot of them had L's on them. Perhaps it's more
appropriate for a text editor, but I like it a lot.

Cheers,
-Pax
Paul D. Waite | 29 Jan 2010 12:21
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Re: Icon design idea...

I could mock a man in brown shorts all day long.

UPS trucks aren’t particularly well-known in the UK. And it might be an idea to steer clear of an
established brand.

Yours sincerely,
Paul Waite

On 29 Jan 2010, at 3:18 p.m., Jim Kubicek wrote:

> UPS trucks are pretty universal, right? Can anyone mock up a jaunty man in short brown shorts?
> 
> - Jim
> 
> On Jan 29, 2010, at 5:49 AM, Ian Eiloart wrote:
> 
>> My guess is that there isn't a distinctive "mail vehicle" that's not too parochial.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> email-init@... mailing list
> List help: http://lists.ranchero.com/listinfo.cgi/email-init-ranchero.com

Paul Franz | 29 Jan 2010 11:22
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Re: Email-init Digest, Vol 1, Issue 298


--On January 29, 2010 1:36:34 AM -0800 
email-init-request@... wrote:

> Message: 8
> Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 09:30:46 +0000
> From: Jared Earle <jearle@...>
> To: email-init@...
> Subject: Re: Feature Wish List
> Message-ID:
> 	<5bbc0cd61001290130s6568dfa0i17bab97a25918dfd@...>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 1:24 AM, John C. Welch <jwelch@...> wrote:
>
>> Indeed. So rather than trying to make it hard to get to, instead, meet
>> the challenge head on, and give people a solid *subset* of HTML so they
>> can have
>> better formatting and control. If you give them 90% of what they will use
>> right there, no arguing, the other 10% they don't have is forgivable.
>
>
> Indeed. A basic HTML subset (websafe fonts, bold, italic, off-site images,
> links, etc) should be part of the basic email composing default. Yes, like
> Apple mail, it should allow you to set a default and a per-message
> setting. It should, also, allow you a per-account setting. Many users
> would choose plain text as a default, but I'm sure *many* of us would be
> grateful to have the option of *at least* bold and italics.
>

Agreed. There are many times that I need to combined variable fonts and 
fixed to show the difference between the message and code/error message 
shown from a log.

> IMO, of course.
>
> Oh, and when receiving HTML, it'd be nice to be able to override
> everything but font-size, bold and italic.
>

Paul Franz


Gmane