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Gerald Bauer | 1 Oct 19:51
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Microsoft Insight of the Day by Windows Forms Architect

Hello,

  Brian Pepin - the Microsoft Windows Forms Architect - offers some
insight on why a Windows 2009-only Avalon desktop composition engine
is a non-starter.

  Brian writes: People buy Windows because of the apps they can run on
Windows. Developers write apps for Windows because it is the most
pervasive platform so they get the broadest reach. Producing a
brand-new API and only exposing it on a version of Windows that no one
has does not encourage developers to spend valuable time writing apps
for it, especially if they can write to an existing API and support
both the old and new operating systems.

  Source: http://www.urbanpotato.net/default.aspx/document/1849

  What's your take? Do you see interest building up in Avalon and XAML? 

   - Gerald

---------------------------
Gerald Bauer
Rich Client Conference (RichCon) 2005 - http://richcon.com
XUL News Wire - http://xulnews.com

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marc_clifton2000 | 1 Oct 20:20

Re: Microsoft Insight of the Day by Windows Forms Architect


>   What's your take? Do you see interest building up in Avalon and 
XAML? 

Did you notice there was not one mention of XAML?  No one has even 
asked "will I be able to use XAML with the Avalon namespace on XP?"  

I think Microsoft's concept of XAML is history.  Mwahaha!

Marc

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Gerald Bauer | 5 Oct 04:27
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Xamlon Professional v1.0 Now Live


Hello,

  allow me to forward the announcement by Xamlon Founder Paul Colton.
Here we go:

  The entire Xamlon team is proud to announce the release of Xamlon
Professional v1.0. This product has been a year in the making and
ushers in a new, easier way to develop Windows applications.

Xamlon Professional v1.0 includes:

- Royalty-free redistribution of Xamlon engine
- Visual Studio.NET 2003 integration
- XamlPad, the lightweight XAML editor
- Ability to run your XAML applications in Internet Explorer or on the
desktop
- Adobe Illustrator CS SVG to XAML Converter

Xamlon Professional v1.0 also includes many examples with source code
as well access to many knowledge base articles to help get you
started. You can find out more by visiting our site at
http://www.xamlon.com.

You can purchase or download a 30-day evaluation of Xamlon
Professional v1.0 at http://www.xamlon.com/downloads/

   
   If anyone tries out Xamlon, let us know what you think and how it
stacks up against Mobiform XAML or MyXAML.
(Continue reading)

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Gerald Bauer | 5 Oct 04:42
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Tech Press Comments on XAML and Xamlon - Is XAML the new XML?


Hello,

  Some tech sites covered today's Xamlon 1.0 release with some commentary.

  internetnews.com writes:

XAML is Microsoft's proprietary extension to the XML standard, and
Colton said that it's not clear whether his company might face the
need to license Microsoft's tech in the future.

Microsoft's licensing plans for XAML remain vague, said O'Kelly. "This
will be interesting litmus test for Microsoft," he said. "Will they
put it into open source? If Microsoft says, 'This is important for
developers, and we're putting heavy IP protection on it,' a lot of
developers will have problems with it."

Sax wasn't sure how much of a future Xamlon has against upcoming
developer toolsets. "Visual Studio will probably eclipse Xamlon as a
development tool for building XAML apps, and now that Avalon will be
available on older versions of Windows, the runtime loses much of its
appeal." He said Xamlon could help move XAML to other platforms,
especially the Mono project, an open source application that lets
Linux, UNIX and other Mono-supported platform programmers create .NET
apps.

"It's not our goal to compete with Microsoft," Colton said. He figures
the company has two years to sell development tools before Microsoft
enables XAML development in Visual Studio and Longhorn. He plans to
continue to advance the tools, then move the company's offerings
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Gerald Bauer | 5 Oct 05:47
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Ryan Dawson Blogs on Avalon Knock-Offs (VG.NET/MyXAML and Xamlon)


Hello,

   Ryan Dawson has written up a blog story titled "Avalon Knock-Offs
Don't Make the Cut".

   Ryan writes:

Lately I have been testing the Avalon knock-offs, VG.Net and Xamlon,
to name the ones I am aware of.

I would have to say that I am pretty impressed by what both companies
have done.  They are both in release about a year after the initial
PDC that started it all, and they both seem to be healthy.

Xamlon is going more for the ultimate compatibility road to Avalon,
while VG.NET is more about having the best platform while borrowing
ideas from Avalon and XAML.

To both companies, I like what you are doing, but I think you both
miss the boat; here is what people want:

   1. People aren't going to switch to Avalon for XAML.  Not a chance.
 It just happens to be a neat serialization format that is easy-to-use
for designers (the software type).  Also, it can double as a
text-based programming language (like HTML) which means it simplifies
development for trivial tasks.  On the other hand, you guys have put
so much time and effort into having compatibility and what not with
Avalon, and I think it's a waste of time.  It reminds me of a post by
Rory where he explains how everyone on SourceForge spends so much time
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Ed Burnette | 5 Oct 20:16
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Is there a corporate-friendly open source XAML/XUL implementation?


What I mean by "corporate friendly" is an OSS license like Apache, EPL, CPL, BSD, or MIT, and not GPL, LGPL, MPL.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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marc_clifton2000 | 5 Oct 20:22

Re: Is there a corporate-friendly open source XAML/XUL implementation?


Hi Ed,

For $300 you can license MyXaml, which gives you an exclusion to the 
GPL--you can use it in a closed source application, modify the 
source, etc.

Marc

--- In xaml-talk <at> yahoogroups.com, "Ed Burnette" <ed.burnette <at> s...> 
wrote:
> What I mean by "corporate friendly" is an OSS license like Apache, 
EPL, CPL, BSD, or MIT, and not GPL, LGPL, MPL.
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Ed Burnette | 5 Oct 21:06
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RE: Re: Is there a corporate-friendly open source XAML/XUL implementation?


That's for the binary license I assume, which is too restrictive for my question. For example it wouldn't
allow its use as part of Eclipse or in a non-GPL'd SourceForge project. Apache and EPL licenses are more
like your non-exclusive source code ownership license (which I'm sure would cost some large-ish number
greater than $0 (and no, I'm not looking for a quote :))).

________________________________

From: marc_clifton2000 [mailto:cliftonm <at> knowledgeautomation.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2004 2:23 PM

For $300 you can license MyXaml, which gives you an exclusion to the 
GPL--you can use it in a closed source application, modify the 
source, etc.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Gerald Bauer | 6 Oct 01:49
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Re: Is there a corporate-friendly open source XAML/XUL implementation?


Hello Ed Burnette,

> Is there a corporate-friendly open source XUL implementation?

  If you're looking for "corporate-friendly" open source XUL
implementations I suggest reposting your request to the xul-talk
mailinglist. See http://xulforum.com for details.

  - Gerald

---------------------------
Gerald Bauer
Rich Client Conference (RichCon) 2005 - http://richcon.com
XUL News Wire - http://xulnews.com

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Gerald Bauer | 6 Oct 01:56
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Marc Clifton (of MyXaml fame) and Frank Hileman (of VG.NET fame) Respond


Hello,

  allow me to highlight the response by Marc Clifton (of MyXAML fame)
and by Frank Hileman (of VG.NET fame) to the Avalon Knock-Offs blog
story. 

  Marc writes in the blog story titled "Microsoft Is Missing The Boat":

Regarding Avalon-XAML, I pretty much agree with what he's saying. This
is why I've tried to position MyXaml not as an Avalon-XAML ripoff, but
rather as a declarative programming language in its own right.  I
think there's a lot to be gained, possibly generally, in building
applications with a clear separation between declarative and
imperative programming.  It makes the task of design and
implementation easier and it provides the customer with a flexible,
customizable, and easily upgradeable product.  It opens the door to
server-based rich-thin client applications.

So yes, in my mind, not only is Xamlon missing the boat, but Microsoft
is too.

Regarding VG.net, I think comparing it to Avalon/XAML is like mixing
apples and oranges.  It's a self-contained product.  And besides, it
has a full-fledged designer which Xamlon and Microsoft don't have. 
How you can compare VG.net with Avalon and Xamlon is beyond me.

As to who's borrowing ideas from whom--let's get real here folks.
Avalon borrowed ideas from SVG and XAML is a borrowed idea from
several XML-based declarative languages--both have been available for
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Gmane