Markus Gaelli | 6 Jul 14:57 2006
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Re: Squeak/eToys manual?

Hi John,

> On 02/07/06, stéphane ducasse <ducasse <at> iam.unibe.ch> wrote:
>> Hi john
>>
>> tell us more where you are and what you want to achieve and we will
>> help you.
>
> Okay, here are a couple of things I'd like to do tomorrow:
>
> Our 'pets' currently have 1 variable, thirst, which increases once per
> second, and turns the animal 90 degrees when it reaches maximum. I can
> key the heading to the thirst divided by a factor, and/or use other
> geometric stuff to reflect variables, but I'd be interested in
> demonstrating different ways to show the affect of increasing thirst
> (and other variables - hunger, illness, happiness?): changing colour
> (going green), changing 'frame' to show another version of the
> creature (which I think uses 'holder' somehow, but haven't been able
> to figure out quite how).

Have a look at animations eg.
http://www.squeakland.org/pdf/etoys_n_authoring.pdf

Make a holder with all colors respectively shapes etc, and change the  
color respectively let it look like the according color of the shape  
at the index of that other holder.
(Hide that holder if necessary). Change the index of the cursor of  
that other holder according to the hunger/illness etc.

Meta hint: Post this kind of etoys questions _also_ to the squeakland  
(Continue reading)

Markus Gaelli | 6 Jul 15:00 2006
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Re: Squeak/eToys manual?


On Jul 6, 2006, at 2:57 PM, Markus Gaelli wrote:

> Make a holder with all colors respectively shapes etc, and change  
> the color respectively let it look like the according color of the  
> shape at the index of that other holder.
> (Hide that holder if necessary). Change the index of the cursor of  
> that other holder according to the hunger/illness etc.

Should have been:

Make a holder with all colors respectively shapes etc, and change the  
color respectively let it look like **** the according shape *** at  
the index (=cursor) of that other holder.
(Hide that holder if necessary). Change the index of the cursor of  
that other holder according to the hunger/illness etc.

Cheers,

Markus
Markus Gaelli | 7 Jul 02:06 2006
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Re: Alan Kay's EuroPython Keynote


On Jul 7, 2006, at 12:46 AM, Brad Fuller wrote:
> Serge Stinckwich wrote:
>> There is a report of Guido Van Rossum about an Alan Kay talk in his
>> web log here : http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp? 
>> thread=167318
>>
> this is sad to read:
>
> Alan believes that Python has a much larger mindshare than  
> Smalltalk or
> Squeak, and that because of this a similar environment in Python will
> have a greater chance of succeeding than the current Squeak one. Also,
> the $100 laptop already has Python, and Alan is of course hoping  
> that a
> Squeak-like environment will be part of it, so this appears expedient.
> (At the Shuttleworth summit in April
> <http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=156162> I believe
> Alan also suggested that Squeak is suffering from its extremely simple
> graphics model; apparently it cannot benefit from graphics accelerator
> cards because of its platform-independent architecture. Python on the
> other hand already has bindings to OpenGL and DirectX, for example.)
>
> -- 
> brad
> sonaural
>
>

Hi folks,
(Continue reading)

Brad Fuller | 7 Jul 04:24 2006

Re: Alan Kay's EuroPython Keynote

Markus Gaelli wrote:

On Jul 7, 2006, at 12:46 AM, Brad Fuller wrote:
Serge Stinckwich wrote:
There is a report of Guido Van Rossum about an Alan Kay talk in his
web log here : http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=167318

this is sad to read:

Alan believes that Python has a much larger mindshare than Smalltalk or
Squeak, and that because of this a similar environment in Python will
have a greater chance of succeeding than the current Squeak one. Also,
the $100 laptop already has Python, and Alan is of course hoping that a
Squeak-like environment will be part of it, so this appears expedient.
(At the Shuttleworth summit in April
<http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=156162> I believe
Alan also suggested that Squeak is suffering from its extremely simple
graphics model; apparently it cannot benefit from graphics accelerator
cards because of its platform-independent architecture. Python on the
other hand already has bindings to OpenGL and DirectX, for example.)

--brad
sonaural



Hi folks,

let's be proud that Smalltalk was indispensable to come up with Etoys and let us accept the challenge.

I googled for python IDEs today and found
http://wiki.python.org/moin/IntegratedDevelopmentEnvironments
and there the most up to date IDE shootout of
http://spyced.blogspot.com/2005/09/review-of-6-python-ides.html
and
http://spyced.blogspot.com/2006/02/pycon-python-ide-review.html

I have to say that I was not impressed.

The IDEs were either not free: Wing, Komodo and in the future PyDev
based on Qt (Eric4)
had no liberal license (Gnu! ): SPE
couldn't eat their own dog food as they were based on Java: PyDev
or didn't have convincing screenshots: DrPython

Alan, which python IDE would you suggest us to widen our perspectives for ourselves, the job market and for helping to make the world a better place - if it is not Squeak?

I have no idea if Alan actually said that, there are not quotes. And, Alan can speak for himself. However(!), if the essence of the paraphrase is right, I think he's suggesting that Python can benefit from the work that Smalltalk has pioneered. But, I don't know if he's referring to the IDE, eToys, or what when he says "environment"
-- brad sonaural

Greg Smith | 7 Jul 02:07 2006
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Can EToys Teach Me How to Program in Squeak?

Gentlefolk:

I am entering the field of programming having no prior experience.   
I'm not a kid, age-wise, anyway.  It seems every programming language  
I have encountered makes assumptions about my prior knowledge, (that  
I have some), and the teachers of these languages use strange and  
alien terminology to describe actions that I am already unfamiliar  
with.  The teachers, (online tutorial writers), use terminology that  
is familiar to themselves to explain new concepts, but is unfamiliar  
and vague to me.

For these reasons I am looking toward using the EToys, children's  
software, as a means to obtain a total introduction to programming,  
in general, and to Squeak, specifically.  Is this the self-education  
route I should take, or is there a better "adult" pathway for learning?

I actually wish that EToys was introduced and structured so that it  
specifically was aimed at teaching me to program rather than to teach  
me Mathematics and Science.  But maybe it will do both.

Please let me know,

Greg Smith
Alan Kay | 7 Jul 15:14 2006

Re: Can EToys Teach Me How to Program in Squeak?

Hi Greg --

Please tell me more about your aspirations. There are a number of styles of 
programming, and there are a number of programming languages, each of which 
addresses one or more styles.

Squeak Etoys is a style that we made up based on 35 years of experience 
working with children. We have had very good results with 8-12 year olds 
over the last 10 years, and this has accounted for its spread around the 
world. If you did a few things in Etoys, you would be (a) programming, and 
(b) get some of the feel of being able to make dynamic constructions via 
programming (c) be learning a few things that would transfer to other 
programming languages (the overlap is not large though).

I strongly suggest that you get the book "Powerful Ideas in the Classroom" 
by B-J Allen-Conn and Kim Rose (available through the website or at 
Amazon). This plus other materials on the website should help get you launched.

Squeak is an open source version of the Xerox PARC Smalltalk (from the late 
70s) that we made as a general tool for constructing large scale designs. 
It is very powerful, but the introductions are certainly more geeky than 
you might like.

Cheers,

Alan

At 05:07 PM 7/6/2006, Greg Smith wrote:
>Gentlefolk:
>
>I am entering the field of programming having no prior experience.
>I'm not a kid, age-wise, anyway.  It seems every programming language
>I have encountered makes assumptions about my prior knowledge, (that
>I have some), and the teachers of these languages use strange and
>alien terminology to describe actions that I am already unfamiliar
>with.  The teachers, (online tutorial writers), use terminology that
>is familiar to themselves to explain new concepts, but is unfamiliar
>and vague to me.
>
>For these reasons I am looking toward using the EToys, children's
>software, as a means to obtain a total introduction to programming,
>in general, and to Squeak, specifically.  Is this the self-education
>route I should take, or is there a better "adult" pathway for learning?
>
>I actually wish that EToys was introduced and structured so that it
>specifically was aimed at teaching me to program rather than to teach
>me Mathematics and Science.  But maybe it will do both.
>
>Please let me know,
>
>Greg Smith
>
>_______________________________________________
>Squeakland mailing list
>Squeakland@...
>http://squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland
Kazuki Minamitani | 7 Jul 17:59 2006

[Update] SqSquare BETA2 update on 2006/07/07

Hello,

SqSquare has been updated to a new BETA2 version (July 8).

NEW:
-Rollback support (in server)
	Administrators can perform a rollback of the board to a 
specified version.
-Active users display (in Web UI)
	Browser clients can see active users in the board list.

FIX:
-In administration mode, user list and  board list are now displayed 
properly.

Get the new version from: http://sqsq.jp/SqSquare/7

Enjoy!

Kazuki Minamitani, Masashi Umezawa - SqSquare team
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Re: Alan Kay's EuroPython Keynote


Hi all,

I would like to use this chance to talk about some questions regarding 
the OLPC project and Squeak. In my own short experience teaching, there 
is nothing like Squeak for teaching programming (even for not so young 
children like myself and my university students). Is fun, is connected 
with the world, is media rich. It was pretty amazing for me to find that 
Squeak would not be included in OLPC. I liked a lot python also and I 
have had rewarding experiences using it as a first programming language, 
but Squeak works better in a heterogeneous teaching environment. So here 
come my questions:

 * ¿Why was not Squeak included in the OLPC project?

 * I have heard that in Argentina the laptops would work with Utoto, a 
local distro there. So, if Fedora Distro is not a "must be" and Laptops 
can be "located", ¿could we create a program to "enrich" OLPC original 
offering with Squeak?

 * In my experience Squeak is in some way, too much self contained: it 
has his own file manganer (no problem here) but has no drag & drop from 
graphical file managers in Unix (not even for the ones which support XDD 
XDesktop standard), no "bindings" with other languages (one of the 
success of python is the possibility to use easily C++ or Java code with 
Python), etc. ¿Would be possible to have some kind of Spytalk (or 
Pytalk) that makes for the relation Squeak-Python what Jython makes for 
the Java-Python relationship?, would be nice to have the possibility to 
write python inside squeak, or to extend/mix Smalltalk code with python 
one, for example in etoys. Making a bridge between Squeak and Python, we 
could to take advantage of the python mind share, without loosing the 
Squeak power ¿Is this much difficult? (may be the answer is "yes" :-/ ).

Cheers,

Offray

Markus Gaelli escribió:
> On Jul 7, 2006, at 12:46 AM, Brad Fuller wrote:
>   
>> Serge Stinckwich wrote:
>>     
>>> There is a report of Guido Van Rossum about an Alan Kay talk in his
>>> web log here : http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp? 
>>> thread=167318
>>>
>>>       
>> this is sad to read:
>>
>> Alan believes that Python has a much larger mindshare than  
>> Smalltalk or
>> Squeak, and that because of this a similar environment in Python will
>> have a greater chance of succeeding than the current Squeak one. Also,
>> the $100 laptop already has Python, and Alan is of course hoping  
>> that a
>> Squeak-like environment will be part of it, so this appears expedient.
>> (At the Shuttleworth summit in April
>> <http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=156162> I believe
>> Alan also suggested that Squeak is suffering from its extremely simple
>> graphics model; apparently it cannot benefit from graphics accelerator
>> cards because of its platform-independent architecture. Python on the
>> other hand already has bindings to OpenGL and DirectX, for example.)
>>
>> -- 
>> brad
>> sonaural
>>
>>
>>     
>
> Hi folks,
>
> let's be proud that Smalltalk was indispensable to come up with Etoys  
> and let us accept the challenge.
>
> I googled for python IDEs today and found
> http://wiki.python.org/moin/IntegratedDevelopmentEnvironments
> and there the most up to date IDE shootout of
> http://spyced.blogspot.com/2005/09/review-of-6-python-ides.html
> and
> http://spyced.blogspot.com/2006/02/pycon-python-ide-review.html
>
> I have to say that I was not impressed.
>
> The IDEs were either not free: Wing, Komodo and in the future PyDev
> based on Qt (Eric4)
> had no liberal license (Gnu! ): SPE
> couldn't eat their own dog food as they were based on Java: PyDev
> or didn't have convincing screenshots: DrPython
>
> Alan, which python IDE would you suggest us to widen our perspectives  
> for ourselves, the job market and for helping to make the world a  
> better place - if it is not Squeak?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Markus
>
> p.s. another blog about Alan's talk can be found on
> http://vanrees.org/weblog/archive/2006/07/03/europython-keynote-alan- 
> kay-children-first
>
> p.p.s. inspired by Paul Bissex - a guy who once wrote a small article  
> about squeak for Wired - challenge on:
> http://e-scribe.com/news/193
> I wrote an Etoys version of this "reverse"-game.
> It can be found on
> http://www.squeakland.org/project.jsp?http://www.emergent.de/pub/ 
> smalltalk/squeak/projects/reverse.pr
>
> (I hope you all have the squeakland plugin installed... ;-) )
>
> It has only a few lines more than the smalltalk (I  included a  
> smalltalk version), python, ruby,... version but comes with a much  
> more sophisticated user interface.
> So I do think that Etoys are the way to go... no matter what the  
> language is underneath - be it smalltalk/python/ruby/etc...
> _______________________________________________
> Squeakland mailing list
> Squeakland@...
> http://squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland
>
>   

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Greg Smith | 7 Jul 21:35 2006
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Animation, Onion-Skinning and Antialiased Graphics

I just discovered EToys the other day and am thoroughly fascinated by  
its potential to possibly teach an old graphics guy, like me, how to  
program and express myself graphically/interactively/experimentally.   
I'm hoping the EToys environment will allow me to do this.

In messing around inside the EToys environment I could not readily  
see any evidence of antialiasing being present on the results of any  
of the painting tools.  I also discovered there didn't seem to be any  
support for the .png format with alpha channel for use as "sprites"  
for lack of a better term.  From an animator's viewpoint,  
professional quality computer graphics require them to be antialiased  
and clean, so, whether they are created internally, within EToys, or  
externally and imported, they need to act like a .png file or  
sequence of images that are masked against the other objects in the  
scene, (alpha channel).  So, I'm stuck, graphically speaking.

Also, if really good animations are to be produced within the EToys  
environment, it will be necessary to have an untouchable set of  
layers that represent, at least, previous drawings in the animation,  
(onion skin).  I couldn't readily discover any such functionality.   
Is it possible within EToys?

Thanks,

Greg Smith
Greg Smith | 7 Jul 21:52 2006
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Methods for Customizing EToys' Icons and Interface?

GentleSqueakerFolk:

Though I really like what EToys is capable of doing, I don't like to  
look at its interface icons and fonts.  I read that everything in  
Squeak is an object, and, being an object , it is editable.  If this  
is so, how do I replace EToy icons and text with my own icons and  
substitute font sets?

Greg Smith

Gmane