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Mateusz Grotek | 1 Jun 2011 07:11
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Getting information from broken image

Hi.
Is there a way to get data from broken image. I suppose I should split
my question in two:
1. Is there a way to get source code from broken image?
2. Is there a way to get objects from broken image and put it into
another one?
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David T. Lewis | 1 Jun 2011 12:04
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Re: Getting information from broken image

On Wed, Jun 01, 2011 at 07:11:19AM +0200, Mateusz Grotek wrote:
> Hi.
> Is there a way to get data from broken image. I suppose I should split
> my question in two:
> 1. Is there a way to get source code from broken image?
> 2. Is there a way to get objects from broken image and put it into
> another one?

Here are a couple of links that will help with your first question:

  <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1nOqsSg8Ik>

  <http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/2168>

Question 2 may be a little more difficult. Can you say how the image
became broken?

Dave
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Mateusz Grotek | 2 Jun 2011 12:12
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Re: Getting information from broken image

David T. Lewis pisze:
> On Wed, Jun 01, 2011 at 07:11:19AM +0200, Mateusz Grotek wrote:
>> Hi.
>> Is there a way to get data from broken image. I suppose I should split
>> my question in two:
>> 1. Is there a way to get source code from broken image?
>> 2. Is there a way to get objects from broken image and put it into
>> another one?
> 
> Here are a couple of links that will help with your first question:
> 
>   <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1nOqsSg8Ik>
> 
>   <http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/2168>
> 
> Question 2 may be a little more difficult. Can you say how the image
> became broken?

The problem is old, and I've already solved it (I used become in the
wrong way). So the question is more theoretical. I donno how the image
is organized, but if it's like a filesystem maybe it would be possible
to create some tool to extract objects from it. I wondered if there is
such a tool. (I suppose the answer is no). Thanks.
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Mateusz Grotek | 2 Jun 2011 12:24
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Initials and settings

I have another three questions:
3. How do I change my initials in image?
4. Is there a way to copy all settings from an old image to a new one?
By "all" I mean not only preferences, but also fonts and Monticello
repositories.
5. What is the official way of installing packages in squeak?
I've noticed there are many, like Squeaksource and Monticello, Squeakmap
and package universe, Monticello configurations.
I also understand that Monticello is a versioning system (like svn),
Squeaksource is versioning system repository (like svn repository). If I
understand it correctly Squeakmap and package universe are like linux
distribution package repositories (like debian apt repositories). So
what are Monticello configurations? Also it seems the analogy isn't as
clear... Squeakmap etc. is kind of deprecated (?) (old versions there).
People suggest to use Monticello configurations instead i suppose, but
are they another way of managing packages? Please could you clarify this
somehow?
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Casey Ransberger | 2 Jun 2011 21:26
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Re: Getting information from broken image

Hi,

On Jun 2, 2011, at 3:12 AM, Mateusz Grotek <unoduetre <at> poczta.onet.pl> wrote:

(big snip)

I donno how the image
is organized, but if it's like a filesystem maybe it would be possible
to create some tool to extract objects from it. I wondered if there is
such a tool. (I suppose the answer is no). Thanks.

So it's a big heap of objects, which are comprised mostly of references to other objects. 

I struggled quite a bit at first to map the persistent object memory onto something that I could really recognize, like a filesystem. 

I'm not sure how useful this metaphor is, but here's a try: it's almost like a filesystem in which almost everything is a symbolic link to something else, if you envision the objects as analogous to directories. Oh, and there are cyclical references going on, I don't think the weak metaphor I'm using here can hold that part up very well:)

I can't say anything of real use WRT extracting stuff from a completely hosed image; I've needed at least a recovery console to open in order to make it back to a state that I can recover objects from. Basically the image format is currently beyond my experience, but if I wanted to find out how it works, the first thing I would try is pulling down VMMaker and looking at the Slang code for the object memory itself. This could be terrible advice though, so I'd go for a second opinion if I was you:)

If just you want to move some objects between two images, you might want to check out SmartRefStream. 

I've also longed to see some tools for image exploration/visualization. I'm really excited about the work of Craig Latta in this area. I would strongly recommend that you check out Spoon when you can. 
_______________________________________________
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Beginners <at> lists.squeakfoundation.org
http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
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Herbert König | 2 Jun 2011 22:00
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Re[2]: Getting information from broken image

Hi Mateusz,

>>> 2. Is there a way to get objects from broken image and put it into
>>> another one?
http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/vm-dev/2010-August/005242.html
might help. It describes the format of the image fileand it from the thread
"[squeak-dev] reading objects of a dead image" on Squeak dev from May
14th 2011.

I seem to remember there was a discussion about a tool to do this but
my Google fu was not strong enough.

--

-- 
Cheers,

Herbert
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Mateusz Grotek | 3 Jun 2011 02:26
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Re: Initials and settings

Mateusz Grotek pisze:
> 3. How do I change my initials in image?
Oh, sorry for asking that, this was trivial ;-)
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Mateusz Grotek | 3 Jun 2011 02:32
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Re: Initials and settings

> 5. What is the official way of installing packages in squeak?
> I've noticed there are many, like Squeaksource and Monticello, Squeakmap
> and package universe, Monticello configurations.
> I also understand that Monticello is a versioning system (like svn),
> Squeaksource is versioning system repository (like svn repository). If I
> understand it correctly Squeakmap and package universe are like linux
> distribution package repositories (like debian apt repositories). So
> what are Monticello configurations? Also it seems the analogy isn't as
> clear... Squeakmap etc. is kind of deprecated (?) (old versions there).
> People suggest to use Monticello configurations instead i suppose, but
> are they another way of managing packages? Please could you clarify this
> somehow?

As far as this one is concerned I've found some information in draft
chapters of Pharo book (thank you Pharo people for describing it).
That's what I've got:
Monticello ~ SVN
Metacello ~ dpkg
Squeaksource ~ Debian repository

Is Squeakmap deprecated?
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Mateusz Grotek | 3 Jun 2011 02:42
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Re: Getting information from broken image

> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/vm-dev/2010-August/005242.html
> might help. It describes the format of the image fileand it from the thread
> "[squeak-dev] reading objects of a dead image" on Squeak dev from May
> 14th 2011.
> 

Thanks.
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David T. Lewis | 3 Jun 2011 02:47
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Re: Initials and settings

On Fri, Jun 03, 2011 at 02:32:34AM +0200, Mateusz Grotek wrote:
> > 5. What is the official way of installing packages in squeak?
> > I've noticed there are many, like Squeaksource and Monticello, Squeakmap
> > and package universe, Monticello configurations.
> > I also understand that Monticello is a versioning system (like svn),
> > Squeaksource is versioning system repository (like svn repository). If I
> > understand it correctly Squeakmap and package universe are like linux
> > distribution package repositories (like debian apt repositories). So
> > what are Monticello configurations? Also it seems the analogy isn't as
> > clear... Squeakmap etc. is kind of deprecated (?) (old versions there).
> > People suggest to use Monticello configurations instead i suppose, but
> > are they another way of managing packages? Please could you clarify this
> > somehow?
> 
> As far as this one is concerned I've found some information in draft
> chapters of Pharo book (thank you Pharo people for describing it).
> That's what I've got:
> Monticello ~ SVN
> Metacello ~ dpkg
> Squeaksource ~ Debian repository
> 
> Is Squeakmap deprecated?

No, SqueakMap is not deprecated, and in fact there has been some
recent work to re-energize it in Squeak. That said, SqueakMap really
did fall into disuse for a number of years, and at the moment is not
as well updated as one might like. So I would encourage you to use
it, but don't be surprised if many things are out of date. And of
course, the flip side of that is that SqueakMap maintains a large
catalogue of worthwhile Squeak development projects that would be
easily overlooked if SqueakMap was not there to help you find
them :)

So please do take some time to explore SqueakMap to get a better
idea of what is available, what has been available, and perhaps
to find some interesting projects that might be brought up to
date by ambitious new contributors.

Dave
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