Jonathan Greenberg | 1 Nov 22:36 2011

Choosing Intel MKL BLAS when compiling R

r-sig-hpc'ers:

I am compiling R 2.14 from scratch on a cluster computer (I can't use
any package managers for the install, unfortunately), and they have
the Intel MKL libraries available for BLAS/LAPACK.  I have not
successfully gotten a configure/make/make install combo yet that uses
multiple CPUs to do, say:

a = matrix(rnorm(5000*5000), 5000, 5000)
b = matrix(rnorm(5000*5000), 5000, 5000)
# This following line, minimally, should be getting distributed.
c = a%*%b

First off, I've tried compiling it with the configure flags:
./configure --prefix=/myprefix/ --enable-BLAS-shlib

How do I then select the Intel MKL libraries to be used as the BLAS?
They are located in /usr/local/intel-11.1/mkl/lib/em64t

Thanks!

--j

--

-- 
Jonathan A. Greenberg, PhD
Assistant Professor
Department of Geography
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
607 South Mathews Avenue, MC 150
Urbana, IL 61801
(Continue reading)

Dirk Eddelbuettel | 1 Nov 23:12 2011
Picon

Re: Choosing Intel MKL BLAS when compiling R


On 1 November 2011 at 14:36, Jonathan Greenberg wrote:
| r-sig-hpc'ers:
| 
| I am compiling R 2.14 from scratch on a cluster computer (I can't use
| any package managers for the install, unfortunately), and they have
| the Intel MKL libraries available for BLAS/LAPACK.  I have not
| successfully gotten a configure/make/make install combo yet that uses
| multiple CPUs to do, say:
| 
| a = matrix(rnorm(5000*5000), 5000, 5000)
| b = matrix(rnorm(5000*5000), 5000, 5000)
| # This following line, minimally, should be getting distributed.
| c = a%*%b
| 
| First off, I've tried compiling it with the configure flags:
| ./configure --prefix=/myprefix/ --enable-BLAS-shlib
| 
| How do I then select the Intel MKL libraries to be used as the BLAS?
| They are located in /usr/local/intel-11.1/mkl/lib/em64t

BLAS is an interface so you do not have to configure for a given BLAS. You
just build for the generic BLAS, and the drop better ones in.

This is demonstrated in a little package / vignette / paper I have at 

   https://r-forge.r-project.org/scm/viewvc.php/pkg/gcbd/?root=gcb

and you may want to hit the pdf directly at 

(Continue reading)

Jonathan Greenberg | 1 Nov 23:40 2011

Re: Choosing Intel MKL BLAS when compiling R

Dirk:

Thanks -- I was able to get this running on a Debian box previously
(http://lostingeospace.blogspot.com/2010/07/multithreaded-r-using-blas-in-debian_28.html)
but I'm having trouble figuring out specific steps I need to do to
choose the Intel MKL BLAS, particularly now that I don't have a
package manager to rely on -- is it an issue of using
update-alternatives?  How can I check to see what R is currently
using?

--j

On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 3:12 PM, Dirk Eddelbuettel <edd@...> wrote:
>
> On 1 November 2011 at 14:36, Jonathan Greenberg wrote:
> | r-sig-hpc'ers:
> |
> | I am compiling R 2.14 from scratch on a cluster computer (I can't use
> | any package managers for the install, unfortunately), and they have
> | the Intel MKL libraries available for BLAS/LAPACK.  I have not
> | successfully gotten a configure/make/make install combo yet that uses
> | multiple CPUs to do, say:
> |
> | a = matrix(rnorm(5000*5000), 5000, 5000)
> | b = matrix(rnorm(5000*5000), 5000, 5000)
> | # This following line, minimally, should be getting distributed.
> | c = a%*%b
> |
> | First off, I've tried compiling it with the configure flags:
> | ./configure --prefix=/myprefix/ --enable-BLAS-shlib
(Continue reading)

Jonathan Greenberg | 2 Nov 00:06 2011

Re: Choosing Intel MKL BLAS when compiling R

Sorry, small update.  I had this problem before when dealing with
Intel MKL, but I need to revisit it now -- I got the linking working
via alternatives, but this does not seem to work:

(from alternatives:)
Current `best' version is /usr/local/intel-11.1/mkl/lib/em64t/libmkl_core.so

Booting up R gives me this error:
Error in dyn.load(file, DLLpath = DLLpath, ...) :
  unable to load shared object
'/usr/apps/oa/lib64/R/library/stats/libs/stats.so':
  /usr/apps/oa/lib64/R/library/stats/libs/stats.so: undefined symbol: dswap_
During startup - Warning message:
package 'stats' in options("defaultPackages") was not found

I had this problem before -- is libmkl_core.so not the right file to
be linking against?  If so, which one should I be using?  Here's a
dump of the em64t folder:

libmkl_avx.so                   libmkl_gf_lp64.a         libmkl_pgi_thread.so
libmkl_blacs_ilp64.a            libmkl_gf_lp64.so
libmkl_scalapack_ilp64.a
libmkl_blacs_intelmpi_ilp64.a   libmkl_gnu_thread.a
libmkl_scalapack_ilp64.so
libmkl_blacs_intelmpi_ilp64.so  libmkl_gnu_thread.so     libmkl_scalapack_lp64.a
libmkl_blacs_intelmpi_lp64.a    libmkl_intel_ilp64.a
libmkl_scalapack_lp64.so
libmkl_blacs_intelmpi_lp64.so   libmkl_intel_ilp64.so    libmkl_sequential.a
libmkl_blacs_lp64.a             libmkl_intel_lp64.a      libmkl_sequential.so
libmkl_blacs_openmpi_ilp64.a    libmkl_intel_lp64.so     libmkl_solver_ilp64.a
(Continue reading)

Jonathan Greenberg | 2 Nov 00:25 2011

Re: Choosing Intel MKL BLAS when compiling R

Ok, so I did a new test and installed a local version of GotoBLAS
(OpenBLAS fork), used alternatives --install, and its working
perfectly.  According to your paper, I'm probably good to go (you got
the best results from GotoBLAS, right?)  However, just to see if I can
settle the issue (I have colleagues who would prefer to use Intel
MKL's BLAS), can you advise on how to properly link against the Intel
MKL libraries based on the previous error I reported?  What is the
specific file I should be pointing R towards?

***

Error in dyn.load(file, DLLpath = DLLpath, ...) :
 unable to load shared object
'/usr/apps/oa/lib64/R/library/stats/libs/stats.so':
 /usr/apps/oa/lib64/R/library/stats/libs/stats.so: undefined symbol: dswap_
During startup - Warning message:
package 'stats' in options("defaultPackages") was not found

***

--j

On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 4:09 PM, Dirk Eddelbuettel <edd@...> wrote:
>
> On 1 November 2011 at 15:40, Jonathan Greenberg wrote:
> | Dirk:
> |
> | Thanks -- I was able to get this running on a Debian box previously
> | (http://lostingeospace.blogspot.com/2010/07/multithreaded-r-using-blas-in-debian_28.html)
> | but I'm having trouble figuring out specific steps I need to do to
(Continue reading)

Dirk Eddelbuettel | 2 Nov 00:59 2011
Picon

Re: Choosing Intel MKL BLAS when compiling R


On 1 November 2011 at 16:25, Jonathan Greenberg wrote:
| Ok, so I did a new test and installed a local version of GotoBLAS
| (OpenBLAS fork), used alternatives --install, and its working
| perfectly.  According to your paper, I'm probably good to go (you got
| the best results from GotoBLAS, right?)  However, just to see if I can

Correct, though that was a) a little over a year ago and b) it used the older
MKL "we all" once got access to because Revo (then called REvolution
Computing) had it integrated into Ubuntu 9.10 (Disclaimer: I was on a
consultant on that project.)

On the other hand, with R 2.14.0 you can no longer use MKL anyway it
conflicts (via R's use of OpenMP) with the MKL build (as they both provide
conflicting MP primitives, if memory serves).  So my money is still on Goto,
and hopefully one day on the OpenBlas replacement.

| settle the issue (I have colleagues who would prefer to use Intel
| MKL's BLAS), can you advise on how to properly link against the Intel
| MKL libraries based on the previous error I reported?  What is the
| specific file I should be pointing R towards?

I suggest yoru colleagues request help from the vendor they paid dearly for
this.  I am after all just a volunteer and not really in charge of your
cluster (nor do I have the time to dive into this..., sorry!)

Dirk

| 
| ***
(Continue reading)

Michael Braun | 2 Nov 01:23 2011
Picon

Re: Choosing Intel MKL BLAS when compiling R

Jonathan:

Compiling R, and linking to Intel MKL, is quite simple, as long as you are using a recent version of MKL.  Intel has a MKL Link Advisor at


Choose the linking model you want, and then use the --with-blas option on configure.  For example, on my Mac, to link dynamically with the parallel version (which can be controlled with environment variables), I use the following:

'--with-blas=-L$(MKLROOT)/lib -lmkl_rt -lpthread -liomp5'

I compiled R 2.14.0 this morning with this option, and it seems to work fine.  I'm not sure what Dirk was referencing about how MKL is no longer compatible with R.  If there is an issue, it would be good to know about it.  Perhaps he can point us to the page in the documentation where this is mentioned.

I hope this helps.

Michael




Message: 1
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 14:36:50 -0700
From: Jonathan Greenberg <jgrn-nzINlOoChub2fBVCVOL8/A@public.gmane.org>
To: r-sig-hpc-0bNBQ1PAWB4BXFe83j6qeQ@public.gmane.org
Subject: [R-sig-hpc] Choosing Intel MKL BLAS when compiling R
Message-ID:
       <CABG0rfvnoswR+Hi7peaTAPczT_4j6FTV-H0rDLwqJOw05HrLuw-JsoAwUIsXouhRSP0FMvGiw@public.gmane.orgm>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

r-sig-hpc'ers:

I am compiling R 2.14 from scratch on a cluster computer (I can't use
any package managers for the install, unfortunately), and they have
the Intel MKL libraries available for BLAS/LAPACK.  I have not
successfully gotten a configure/make/make install combo yet that uses
multiple CPUs to do, say:

a = matrix(rnorm(5000*5000), 5000, 5000)
b = matrix(rnorm(5000*5000), 5000, 5000)
# This following line, minimally, should be getting distributed.
c = a%*%b

First off, I've tried compiling it with the configure flags:
./configure --prefix=/myprefix/ --enable-BLAS-shlib

How do I then select the Intel MKL libraries to be used as the BLAS?
They are located in /usr/local/intel-11.1/mkl/lib/em64t

Thanks!

--j


--
Jonathan A. Greenberg, PhD
Assistant Professor
Department of Geography
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
607 South Mathews Avenue, MC 150
Urbana, IL 61801
Phone: 415-763-5476
AIM: jgrn307, MSN: jgrn307-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org, Gchat: jgrn307, Skype: jgrn3007
http://www.geog.illinois.edu/people/JonathanGreenberg.html



-------------------------------------------
Michael Braun
Associate Professor of Management Science (Marketing Group)
MIT Sloan School of Management
100 Main St.., E62-535
Cambridge, MA 02139
braunm-3s7WtUTddSA@public.gmane.org
617-253-3436




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Simon Urbanek | 2 Nov 02:09 2011

Re: Choosing Intel MKL BLAS when compiling R


On Nov 1, 2011, at 8:23 PM, Michael Braun wrote:

> Jonathan:
> 
> Compiling R, and linking to Intel MKL, is quite simple, as long as you are using a recent version of MKL. 
Intel has a MKL Link Advisor at
> 
> http://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/intel-mkl-link-line-advisor/
> 
> Choose the linking model you want, and then use the --with-blas option on configure.  For example, on my
Mac, to link dynamically with the parallel version (which can be controlled with environment
variables), I use the following:
> 
> '--with-blas=-L$(MKLROOT)/lib -lmkl_rt -lpthread -liomp5'
> 
> I compiled R 2.14.0 this morning with this option, and it seems to work fine.  I'm not sure what Dirk was
referencing about how MKL is no longer compatible with R.  If there is an issue, it would be good to know about
it.  Perhaps he can point us to the page in the documentation where this is mentioned.
> 

The issue is not relevant on OS X because OpenMP performance on OS X for vector parallelization is very bad,
so it is typically disabled.

One comment to the earlier discussion - it's not always as simple as replacing the BLAS back-end due to ABI
difference in the different implementations. You'll notice, for example, when complex BLAS calls start
crashing (because R can work around such issues at configure time but not if you switch BLAS). On Debian I'm
usually compiling ATLAS by hand which yields the best performance so I don't run into that problem.

Cheers,
Simon

> I hope this helps.
> 
> Michael
> 
> 
> On Nov 1, 2011, at 7:59 PM, <r-sig-hpc-request@...>
<r-sig-hpc-request@...> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 14:36:50 -0700
>> From: Jonathan Greenberg <jgrn@...>
>> To: r-sig-hpc@...
>> Subject: [R-sig-hpc] Choosing Intel MKL BLAS when compiling R
>> Message-ID:
>>        <CABG0rfvnoswR+Hi7peaTAPczT_4j6FTV-H0rDLwqJOw05HrLuw@...>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>> 
>> r-sig-hpc'ers:
>> 
>> I am compiling R 2.14 from scratch on a cluster computer (I can't use
>> any package managers for the install, unfortunately), and they have
>> the Intel MKL libraries available for BLAS/LAPACK.  I have not
>> successfully gotten a configure/make/make install combo yet that uses
>> multiple CPUs to do, say:
>> 
>> a = matrix(rnorm(5000*5000), 5000, 5000)
>> b = matrix(rnorm(5000*5000), 5000, 5000)
>> # This following line, minimally, should be getting distributed.
>> c = a%*%b
>> 
>> First off, I've tried compiling it with the configure flags:
>> ./configure --prefix=/myprefix/ --enable-BLAS-shlib
>> 
>> How do I then select the Intel MKL libraries to be used as the BLAS?
>> They are located in /usr/local/intel-11.1/mkl/lib/em64t
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> 
>> --j
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Jonathan A. Greenberg, PhD
>> Assistant Professor
>> Department of Geography
>> University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
>> 607 South Mathews Avenue, MC 150
>> Urbana, IL 61801
>> Phone: 415-763-5476
>> AIM: jgrn307, MSN: jgrn307@..., Gchat: jgrn307, Skype: jgrn3007
>> http://www.geog.illinois.edu/people/JonathanGreenberg.html
>> 
>> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------
> Michael Braun
> Associate Professor of Management Science (Marketing Group)
> MIT Sloan School of Management
> 100 Main St.., E62-535
> Cambridge, MA 02139
> braunm@...
> 617-253-3436
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> R-sig-hpc mailing list
> R-sig-hpc@...
> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-sig-hpc
Michael Braun | 2 Nov 04:19 2011
Picon

Re: Choosing Intel MKL BLAS when compiling R

Simon:

Can you clarify your statement about OpenMP on OSX?  Is this an issue with OpenMP in general, or just R's use of it?  Or just Intel's use of it? 

Michael


On Nov 1, 2011, at 9:09 PM, Simon Urbanek wrote:


On Nov 1, 2011, at 8:23 PM, Michael Braun wrote:

Jonathan:

Compiling R, and linking to Intel MKL, is quite simple, as long as you are using a recent version of MKL.  Intel has a MKL Link Advisor at

http://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/intel-mkl-link-line-advisor/

Choose the linking model you want, and then use the --with-blas option on configure.  For example, on my Mac, to link dynamically with the parallel version (which can be controlled with environment variables), I use the following:

'--with-blas=-L$(MKLROOT)/lib -lmkl_rt -lpthread -liomp5'

I compiled R 2.14.0 this morning with this option, and it seems to work fine.  I'm not sure what Dirk was referencing about how MKL is no longer compatible with R.  If there is an issue, it would be good to know about it.  Perhaps he can point us to the page in the documentation where this is mentioned.


The issue is not relevant on OS X because OpenMP performance on OS X for vector parallelization is very bad, so it is typically disabled.

One comment to the earlier discussion - it's not always as simple as replacing the BLAS back-end due to ABI difference in the different implementations. You'll notice, for example, when complex BLAS calls start crashing (because R can work around such issues at configure time but not if you switch BLAS). On Debian I'm usually compiling ATLAS by hand which yields the best performance so I don't run into that problem.

Cheers,
Simon



I hope this helps.

Michael


On Nov 1, 2011, at 7:59 PM, <r-sig-hpc-request <at> r-project.org> <r-sig-hpc-request <at> r-project.org> wrote:


Message: 1
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 14:36:50 -0700
From: Jonathan Greenberg <jgrn-nzINlOoChub2fBVCVOL8/A@public.gmane.org>
To: r-sig-hpc-0bNBQ1PAWB4BXFe83j6qeQ@public.gmane.org
Subject: [R-sig-hpc] Choosing Intel MKL BLAS when compiling R
Message-ID:
      <CABG0rfvnoswR+Hi7peaTAPczT_4j6FTV-H0rDLwqJOw05HrLuw-JsoAwUIsXouhRSP0FMvGiw@public.gmane.orgm>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

r-sig-hpc'ers:

I am compiling R 2.14 from scratch on a cluster computer (I can't use
any package managers for the install, unfortunately), and they have
the Intel MKL libraries available for BLAS/LAPACK.  I have not
successfully gotten a configure/make/make install combo yet that uses
multiple CPUs to do, say:

a = matrix(rnorm(5000*5000), 5000, 5000)
b = matrix(rnorm(5000*5000), 5000, 5000)
# This following line, minimally, should be getting distributed.
c = a%*%b

First off, I've tried compiling it with the configure flags:
./configure --prefix=/myprefix/ --enable-BLAS-shlib

How do I then select the Intel MKL libraries to be used as the BLAS?
They are located in /usr/local/intel-11.1/mkl/lib/em64t

Thanks!

--j


--
Jonathan A. Greenberg, PhD
Assistant Professor
Department of Geography
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
607 South Mathews Avenue, MC 150
Urbana, IL 61801
Phone: 415-763-5476
AIM: jgrn307, MSN: jgrn307-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org, Gchat: jgrn307, Skype: jgrn3007
http://www.geog.illinois.edu/people/JonathanGreenberg.html



-------------------------------------------
Michael Braun
Associate Professor of Management Science (Marketing Group)
MIT Sloan School of Management
100 Main St.., E62-535
Cambridge, MA 02139
braunm-3s7WtUTddSA@public.gmane.org
617-253-3436




_______________________________________________
R-sig-hpc mailing list
R-sig-hpc-0bNBQ1PAWB4BXFe83j6qeQ@public.gmane.org
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-sig-hpc


-------------------------------------------
Michael Braun
Associate Professor of Management Science (Marketing Group)
MIT Sloan School of Management
100 Main St.., E62-535
Cambridge, MA 02139
braunm-3s7WtUTddSA@public.gmane.org
617-253-3436




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Simon Urbanek | 2 Nov 13:39 2011

Re: Choosing Intel MKL BLAS when compiling R


On Nov 1, 2011, at 11:19 PM, Michael Braun wrote:

> Simon:
> 
> Can you clarify your statement about OpenMP on OSX?  Is this an issue with OpenMP in general, or just R's use
of it?  Or just Intel's use of it? 
> 

It seems to be an issue in Apple's posix threads implementation that OpenMP relies on - it seems that the cost
of thread synchronization is several orders of magnitude higher than on Linux which mean you can't use it
for "short" tasks. It's deep enough the I don't think we can do anything about it. Luke Tierney has a good
test case that shows the problem, I'll see if I can forward it here.

Cheers,
Simon

> Michael
> 
> 
> On Nov 1, 2011, at 9:09 PM, Simon Urbanek wrote:
> 
>> 
>> On Nov 1, 2011, at 8:23 PM, Michael Braun wrote:
>> 
>>> Jonathan:
>>> 
>>> Compiling R, and linking to Intel MKL, is quite simple, as long as you are using a recent version of MKL. 
Intel has a MKL Link Advisor at
>>> 
>>> http://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/intel-mkl-link-line-advisor/
>>> 
>>> Choose the linking model you want, and then use the --with-blas option on configure.  For example, on my
Mac, to link dynamically with the parallel version (which can be controlled with environment
variables), I use the following:
>>> 
>>> '--with-blas=-L$(MKLROOT)/lib -lmkl_rt -lpthread -liomp5'
>>> 
>>> I compiled R 2.14.0 this morning with this option, and it seems to work fine.  I'm not sure what Dirk was
referencing about how MKL is no longer compatible with R.  If there is an issue, it would be good to know about
it.  Perhaps he can point us to the page in the documentation where this is mentioned.
>>> 
>> 
>> The issue is not relevant on OS X because OpenMP performance on OS X for vector parallelization is very
bad, so it is typically disabled.
>> 
>> One comment to the earlier discussion - it's not always as simple as replacing the BLAS back-end due to ABI
difference in the different implementations. You'll notice, for example, when complex BLAS calls start
crashing (because R can work around such issues at configure time but not if you switch BLAS). On Debian I'm
usually compiling ATLAS by hand which yields the best performance so I don't run into that problem.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Simon
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> I hope this helps.
>>> 
>>> Michael
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Nov 1, 2011, at 7:59 PM, <r-sig-hpc-request@...>
<r-sig-hpc-request@...> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Message: 1
>>>> Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 14:36:50 -0700
>>>> From: Jonathan Greenberg <jgrn@...>
>>>> To: r-sig-hpc@...
>>>> Subject: [R-sig-hpc] Choosing Intel MKL BLAS when compiling R
>>>> Message-ID:
>>>>       <CABG0rfvnoswR+Hi7peaTAPczT_4j6FTV-H0rDLwqJOw05HrLuw@...>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>>> 
>>>> r-sig-hpc'ers:
>>>> 
>>>> I am compiling R 2.14 from scratch on a cluster computer (I can't use
>>>> any package managers for the install, unfortunately), and they have
>>>> the Intel MKL libraries available for BLAS/LAPACK.  I have not
>>>> successfully gotten a configure/make/make install combo yet that uses
>>>> multiple CPUs to do, say:
>>>> 
>>>> a = matrix(rnorm(5000*5000), 5000, 5000)
>>>> b = matrix(rnorm(5000*5000), 5000, 5000)
>>>> # This following line, minimally, should be getting distributed.
>>>> c = a%*%b
>>>> 
>>>> First off, I've tried compiling it with the configure flags:
>>>> ./configure --prefix=/myprefix/ --enable-BLAS-shlib
>>>> 
>>>> How do I then select the Intel MKL libraries to be used as the BLAS?
>>>> They are located in /usr/local/intel-11.1/mkl/lib/em64t
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks!
>>>> 
>>>> --j
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Jonathan A. Greenberg, PhD
>>>> Assistant Professor
>>>> Department of Geography
>>>> University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
>>>> 607 South Mathews Avenue, MC 150
>>>> Urbana, IL 61801
>>>> Phone: 415-763-5476
>>>> AIM: jgrn307, MSN: jgrn307@..., Gchat: jgrn307, Skype: jgrn3007
>>>> http://www.geog.illinois.edu/people/JonathanGreenberg.html
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> -------------------------------------------
>>> Michael Braun
>>> Associate Professor of Management Science (Marketing Group)
>>> MIT Sloan School of Management
>>> 100 Main St.., E62-535
>>> Cambridge, MA 02139
>>> braunm@...
>>> 617-253-3436
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> R-sig-hpc mailing list
>>> R-sig-hpc@...
>>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-sig-hpc
>> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------
> Michael Braun
> Associate Professor of Management Science (Marketing Group)
> MIT Sloan School of Management
> 100 Main St.., E62-535
> Cambridge, MA 02139
> braunm@...
> 617-253-3436
> 
> 
> 
> 

Gmane