Randall R Schulz | 1 Aug 01:11 2007
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Re: [groovy-user] JLR project

On Tuesday 31 July 2007 15:29, Tom Nichols wrote:
> http://www.infoq.com/news/2007/07/jlr-project
>
> Haven't seen any talk of this project on the Groovy lists yet... 
> They specifically mentioned Groovy in the article.  Is there active
> interest from any of the Groovy developers?  I imagine there is
> plenty of difference in the paradigms of various JVM languages, but
> is there any plan to contribute to/ take from this project?  It's an
> interesting concept at least.

I'm confused. Are they writing a whole new JVM? Do they think they can 
catch up with all the incredible work that Sun as done with its JVM? 
And why? So they can branch the definition and create a schism in the 
JVM-based language world?

I hope I'm confused...

> Just wanted to stir some discussion :)

"Double trouble, boil and bubble." The pot has been stirred.

RRS

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David Herron | 1 Aug 01:58 2007

Re: [groovy-user] JLR project

er... why would they need to invent a new JVM?  Given the name it's obviously an echo project to the DLR which Microsoft recently announced.  The DLR and hence the JLR layer could help alternative language projects by providing some common tools for code generation ...?  That is, I'd think there's various facilities that could be useful to any language implementer (such as code generation) to help a language implementer more quickly get their language running on top of the JVM.

The article mentions a couple relavent websites

http://groups.google.com/group/jvm-languages

http://code.google.com/p/jvm-language-runtime/



Randall R Schulz wrote:
On Tuesday 31 July 2007 15:29, Tom Nichols wrote:
http://www.infoq.com/news/2007/07/jlr-project Haven't seen any talk of this project on the Groovy lists yet... They specifically mentioned Groovy in the article. Is there active interest from any of the Groovy developers? I imagine there is plenty of difference in the paradigms of various JVM languages, but is there any plan to contribute to/ take from this project? It's an interesting concept at least.
I'm confused. Are they writing a whole new JVM? Do they think they can catch up with all the incredible work that Sun as done with its JVM? And why? So they can branch the definition and create a schism in the JVM-based language world? I hope I'm confused...
Just wanted to stir some discussion :)
"Double trouble, boil and bubble." The pot has been stirred. RRS --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list please visit: http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email

Alexandru Popescu ☀ | 1 Aug 02:12 2007
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Re: [groovy-user] JLR project

On 8/1/07, Randall R Schulz <rschulz@...> wrote:
> On Tuesday 31 July 2007 15:29, Tom Nichols wrote:
> > http://www.infoq.com/news/2007/07/jlr-project
> >
> > Haven't seen any talk of this project on the Groovy lists yet...
> > They specifically mentioned Groovy in the article.  Is there active
> > interest from any of the Groovy developers?  I imagine there is
> > plenty of difference in the paradigms of various JVM languages, but
> > is there any plan to contribute to/ take from this project?  It's an
> > interesting concept at least.
>
> I'm confused. Are they writing a whole new JVM? Do they think they can
> catch up with all the incredible work that Sun as done with its JVM?
> And why? So they can branch the definition and create a schism in the
> JVM-based language world?
>
> I hope I'm confused...
>

It is definitely not about a new VM implementation. It's about common
bits needed by different languages to run on top of VM (and it will
probably result in more pushing the invoke dynamic to the VM).

./alex
--
.w( the_mindstorm )p.

>
> > Just wanted to stir some discussion :)
>
> "Double trouble, boil and bubble." The pot has been stirred.
>
>
> RRS
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this list please visit:
>
>     http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>
>

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Randall R Schulz | 1 Aug 02:15 2007
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Re: [groovy-user] JLR project

On Tuesday 31 July 2007 16:58, David Herron wrote:
> er... why would they need to invent a new JVM?  Given the name it's
> obviously an echo project to the DLR which Microsoft recently
> announced.  The DLR and hence the JLR layer could help alternative
> language projects by providing some common tools for code generation
> ...?  That is, I'd think there's various facilities that could be
> useful to any language implementer (such as code generation) to help
> a language implementer more quickly get their language running on top
> of the JVM.

So would it be accurate to say the JLR project intends to facilitate the 
interoperation and integration of existing JVM-based languages?

If so, couldn't they just say that?

If I visit the link (buried in that article) 
<http://code.google.com/p/jvm-language-runtime/>, I find the sum total 
of this text:

"This project is intended to collect and grow libraries, frameworks, and 
utilities that will aid developers of language implementations for the 
JVM. Given that there are many existing, working implementations of 
many different languages, there should be many common areas we can 
share code and techniques."

That still does not state an overarching intent or purpose for the 
project.

Not an auspicious start.

> ...

Randall Schulz

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David Kerber | 1 Aug 03:02 2007
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[groovy-user] Calling Gant from Ant or Grails on Cruise Control

Hello All,
	Does anyone know of a way to call Gant from Ant?  I have a grails project
that I am going to be putting on cruise control and since it is Ant based I
need a way to call the grails targets war and test-app.  Any ideas?

Thanks in advance,

dave

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Alexandru Popescu ☀ | 1 Aug 03:08 2007
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Re: [groovy-user] JLR project

On 8/1/07, Randall R Schulz <rschulz@...> wrote:
> On Tuesday 31 July 2007 16:58, David Herron wrote:
> > er... why would they need to invent a new JVM?  Given the name it's
> > obviously an echo project to the DLR which Microsoft recently
> > announced.  The DLR and hence the JLR layer could help alternative
> > language projects by providing some common tools for code generation
> > ...?  That is, I'd think there's various facilities that could be
> > useful to any language implementer (such as code generation) to help
> > a language implementer more quickly get their language running on top
> > of the JVM.
>
> So would it be accurate to say the JLR project intends to facilitate the
> interoperation and integration of existing JVM-based languages?
>
> If so, couldn't they just say that?
>
> If I visit the link (buried in that article)
> <http://code.google.com/p/jvm-language-runtime/>, I find the sum total
> of this text:
>
> "This project is intended to collect and grow libraries, frameworks, and
> utilities that will aid developers of language implementations for the
> JVM. Given that there are many existing, working implementations of
> many different languages, there should be many common areas we can
> share code and techniques."
>
>
> That still does not state an overarching intent or purpose for the
> project.
>
> Not an auspicious start.
>

Thanks for being positive. What are your better suggestions?

bests,
./alex
--
.w( the_mindstorm )p.

>
> > ...
>
>
> Randall Schulz
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this list please visit:
>
>     http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>
>

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David Kerber | 1 Aug 04:03 2007
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[groovy-user] RE: [grails-user] Calling Gant from Ant or Grails on Cruise Control

Nevermind, I just found the <exec> builder in cruise control.

Thanks,

dave

-----Original Message-----
From: David Kerber [mailto:davekerber@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 8:03 PM
To: user@...; user@...
Subject: [grails-user] Calling Gant from Ant or Grails on Cruise Control

Hello All,
	Does anyone know of a way to call Gant from Ant?  I have a grails project
that I am going to be putting on cruise control and since it is Ant based I
need a way to call the grails targets war and test-app.  Any ideas?

Thanks in advance,

dave

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Randall R Schulz | 1 Aug 04:40 2007
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Re: [groovy-user] JLR project

On Tuesday 31 July 2007 18:08, Alexandru Popescu ☀ wrote:
> ...
> >
> > Not an auspicious start.
>
> Thanks for being positive. What are your better suggestions?

Elucidating your intent is important. They don't appear to have done so, 
so those that support them may or may not actually share their goals, 
even if they believe they do.

Language matters. In fact, as far as programming—a 100% formal activity—
goes, language is _all_ that matters. If you don't say what you mean 
and have that meaning shared by whomever (or whatever) receives it, 
then error and chaos ensues.

> ...
> ./alex

Randall Schulz

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Russel Winder | 1 Aug 06:21 2007
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Re: [groovy-user] RE: [grails-user] Calling Gant from Ant or Grails on Cruise Control

On Tue, 2007-07-31 at 21:03 -0500, David Kerber wrote:
> Nevermind, I just found the <exec> builder in cruise control.

An alternative might be to call the Gant.process method from within the
Groovy plugin -- ensuring that the Gant jar is in the path. 

I guess I should put the JavaDoc/GroovyDoc documentation for Gant
somewhere.  Anyone any idea how to get this onto a wiki page?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Kerber [mailto:davekerber@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 8:03 PM
> To: user@...; user@...
> Subject: [grails-user] Calling Gant from Ant or Grails on Cruise Control
> 
> 
> Hello All,
> 	Does anyone know of a way to call Gant from Ant?  I have a grails project
> that I am going to be putting on cruise control and since it is Ant based I
> need a way to call the grails targets war and test-app.  Any ideas?
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> dave

--

-- 
Russel.
====================================================
Dr Russel Winder
41 Buckmaster Road               m: +44 7770 465 077
London SW11 1EN, UK              t: +44 20 7585 2200
Russel Winder | 1 Aug 06:41 2007
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Re: [groovy-user] What's A "Neat" To Do?

On Tue, 2007-07-31 at 14:23 -0700, Randall R Schulz wrote:

> And here I thought you were going to explain what you meant 
> by "unnecessary complication."

This thread got too angry for my taste, but...

The way that optional semicolon and significant whitespace processing is
done in the Antlr grammar means that to process newline as insignificant
whitespace in certain contexts would mean a complete rewrite of the
current Antlr grammar.  Despite Jez' huge amount of work to get the
Antlr grammar in a fit working state, it actually would benefit from a
complete rewrite from scratch (it is currently an evolution of a Java 5
grammar).  However, there is a lot of other stuff to do, we don't have
paid resource to assign to such a rewrite, and most people use a single
line style.  So the decision was taken not to do anything about allowing
newline as whitespace in those contexts but to force use of line
continuation by those who want to use that code layout style.

It is really down to priorities, resources and interests.  If this is an
"itch you need to scratch", then I think getting stuck in to the Antlr
grammar and creating a patch is the way forward. 

--

-- 
Russel.
====================================================
Dr Russel Winder
41 Buckmaster Road               m: +44 7770 465 077
London SW11 1EN, UK              t: +44 20 7585 2200

Gmane