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James Berry | 1 Mar 2005 01:25
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Re: Groovy beta 10 released! (+JSR Early Access)

I've the committer responsible for groovy on the darwinports project.

In trying to put together a build of Groovy beta 10, it appears that 
not all relevant pieces are in the source tarball. In particular, it 
doesn't appear that any of the jsr support is in there.

My questions/comments are:

  (1) Have I missed something?

  (2) Is there a known replicatable cvs tag and/or network accessable 
tarball distribution for the missing elements?

  (3) In the future (TM) could you try to make sure your source 
distributions cover your entire release?

Thanks! (and keep up the great work on groovy!)

-jdb

On Feb 28, 2005, at 2:22 PM, Guillaume Laforge wrote:

> Dear users, dear developers,
>
>
> The Groovy development team and the JSR-241 Expert Group are pleased
> to announce the release of Groovy beta 10. There has been again a lot
> of work done on two main fronts: fixing a fair amount of bugs, and
> releasing an Early Access Preview of the new parser developed as part
> of the JSR effort.
(Continue reading)

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Martin C. Martin | 1 Mar 2005 01:31

Re: Groovy beta 10 released! (+JSR Early Access)

If you download & build with Maven, it automatically figures out 
dependencies and downloads all the needed jars.  After the initial 
checkout with Maven, you can do all subsequence CVS operations with your 
favorite CVS client.

http://groovy.codehaus.org/cvs-usage.html

- Martin

James Berry wrote:
> I've the committer responsible for groovy on the darwinports project.
> 
> In trying to put together a build of Groovy beta 10, it appears that not 
> all relevant pieces are in the source tarball. In particular, it doesn't 
> appear that any of the jsr support is in there.
> 
> My questions/comments are:
> 
>  (1) Have I missed something?
> 
>  (2) Is there a known replicatable cvs tag and/or network accessable 
> tarball distribution for the missing elements?
> 
>  (3) In the future (TM) could you try to make sure your source 
> distributions cover your entire release?
> 
> Thanks! (and keep up the great work on groovy!)
> 
> -jdb
>
(Continue reading)

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James Berry | 1 Mar 2005 01:43
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Re: Groovy beta 10 released! (+JSR Early Access)

Martin,

We do the build with maven, from the groovy src distribution, and it 
does download needed external jars. But not the jars for the JSR 
support, which are also not in the src distrbution.

Our objective is to be able to build from source whenever possible, so 
that we have good control over the process. In doing that we'd rather 
not have to rely on cvs checkouts (we'd much rather use a src tarball, 
which we can cache), but we sometimes do use cvs if we absolutely must. 
Thus my question as to whether there are cvs tags for the beta-10 usage 
of the jsr support.

The groovy build has gotten better, over the last several releases, but 
is still not perfect, which is why I'm asking that some thought go into 
how to make a replicatable build from the src tarball distribution 
(something which is apparently not currently possible).

Apart from the missing JSR support, it looks like we'll continue to 
have to zap a line out of the maven.xml file (wiki2testcase) and 
disable tests.

-jdb

On Feb 28, 2005, at 4:31 PM, Martin C. Martin wrote:

> If you download & build with Maven, it automatically figures out 
> dependencies and downloads all the needed jars.  After the initial 
> checkout with Maven, you can do all subsequence CVS operations with 
> your favorite CVS client.
(Continue reading)

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Gerald Bauer | 1 Mar 2005 01:55
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Favicon

Scripting Language of the Year 2004 Award - And The Winner Is…

Hello,

  I finally got around to create an official page for
the Viva! Scripting Language of Year 2004 Award. See
http://viva.sourceforge.net/republic/?p=56 for
details.

  Again thanks to everybody for casting your vote. 

  - Gerald

PS: You can find last year's results  <at> 
http://viva.sourceforge.net/republic/?p=25

______________________________________
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Do you Yahoo!? 
Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less. 
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jastrachan | 1 Mar 2005 08:23
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Re: Groovy beta 10 released! (+JSR Early Access)


On 1 Mar 2005, at 00:25, James Berry wrote:

> I've the committer responsible for groovy on the darwinports project.
>
> In trying to put together a build of Groovy beta 10, it appears that 
> not all relevant pieces are in the source tarball. In particular, it 
> doesn't appear that any of the jsr support is in there.
>
> My questions/comments are:
>
>  (1) Have I missed something?
>
>  (2) Is there a known replicatable cvs tag and/or network accessable 
> tarball distribution for the missing elements?
>
>  (3) In the future (TM) could you try to make sure your source 
> distributions cover your entire release?
>
> Thanks! (and keep up the great work on groovy!)

Unfortunately the beta-10 release is a little manual from the build 
perspective as the JSR parser is currently in groovy/jsr/... and the 
reference implementation lives in groovy/groovy-core. CVS is all tagged 
with GROOVY_1_0_BETA_10 if you wanna try a build, but you need to grab 
all of the groovy module and build the JSR parser first before doing 
the release

Now that beta-10 is out we're about to move the JSR parser back into 
the groovy/groovy-core directory tree; so in a couple of weeks we
(Continue reading)

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jastrachan | 1 Mar 2005 08:31
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Re: Groovy beta 10 released! (+JSR Early Access)


On 28 Feb 2005, at 23:30, John Zoetebier wrote:

> On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 11:22, Guillaume Laforge wrote:
>> This release also includes an Early Access version of the JSR parser.
>> This is disabled by default; so that "Classic Groovy" is used out of
>> the box.
>
> Hi Guillaume,
> What is the new JSR parser doing compared with the current parser ?

The biggest change is that its a self documenting parser...

http://groovy.codehaus.org/jsr/spec/Chapter18Syntax.html
http://groovy.codehaus.org/jsr/spec/GroovyRecognizer.html

which helps us to specify the language. Though to see what this means  
as an end user here's a description of the changes...

http://groovy.codehaus.org/Migration+From+Classic+to+JSR+syntax? 
refresh=1

James
-------
http://radio.weblogs.com/0112098/
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Furash Gary | 1 Mar 2005 14:31

RE: Groovy beta 10 released! (+JSR Early Access)

Has anyone written, re groovy, on the strange assumption, that Groovy
tackles head on, that we should use completely different languages for
different problems?

E.g., 
	If you have an easy business problem, use a scripting language,
VB, etc.  If you have a hard problem, use JAVA.

Langauge developers seem to believe this, and focused their developments
that way.

It's not clear that this should be true.  For example, VB has this
"option explicit" thing where you can essentially say "require
declarations up front" or not.

I kind of see Java/Groovy as that combination.  If you're on a giant
development team building a satelite guidance system, you want more
stringent rules.  Other times you don't.  

G
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Martin C. Martin | 1 Mar 2005 16:08

Re: Groovy beta 10 released! (+JSR Early Access)

Furash Gary wrote:
 > Has anyone written, re groovy, on the strange assumption, that Groovy
 > tackles head on, that we should use completely different languages for
 > different problems?
 >
 > E.g.,
 > 	If you have an easy business problem, use a scripting language,
 > VB, etc.  If you have a hard problem, use JAVA.

I've seen a lot of writing that argues that scripting languages should 
be used for large tasks as well.  The reason is something that people 
have noticed since at least the 60s: programmer productivity is roughly 
constant across programming languages, when measured in lines of code. 
 From The Mythical Man Month, chapter 8 and Barry Boehm's "Software 
Engineering Economics" p. 477:

1968: PL/I lines/year comparable to Assembler words/year
1971: Assembler, Fortran, Cobol: roughly equal
1981: “Amount of effort per source statement was highly independent of 
language level”

1970: High level languages 3 times as productive as Assembler

When thought of this way, scripting languages are often called very high 
level languages.  For an empirical comparison of very high level 
languages vs. high level ones, check out:

http://photon.physics.ucf.edu/Public/Python/Documentation/languagecomparisons.pdf 

http://www.cs.drexel.edu/~souter/cs560/w04/assignments/proj4/paper.pdf
(Continue reading)

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Mark Igra | 1 Mar 2005 18:56

RE: Groovy beta 10 released! (+JSR Early Access)

I generally like the language cleanup that is going on with the JSR version,
but there is one thing that seems quite wrong to me:

"all blocks should commence on the same line. A warning is generated if this
is not the case"

It seems to me that either blocks should be delimited by {} or not. This
combination of line ends and brackets seems like a bizarre thing to build
into syntax, especially in a language that is supposed to be familiar to
Java programmers. I know that builders require this in classic groovy and I
already got burned by that.

Personally I'd much prefer whitespace to be insignificant. Is all of this so
that we can leave off semicolons?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: jastrachan@... [mailto:jastrachan@...]
> Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005 11:32 PM
> To: user@...
> Subject: Re: [groovy-user] Groovy beta 10 released! (+JSR Early Access)
> 
> 
> On 28 Feb 2005, at 23:30, John Zoetebier wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 11:22, Guillaume Laforge wrote:
> >> This release also includes an Early Access version of the JSR parser.
> >> This is disabled by default; so that "Classic Groovy" is used out of
> >> the box.
> >
> > Hi Guillaume,
(Continue reading)

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M. Sean Gilligan | 1 Mar 2005 19:30

RE: Groovy beta 10 released! (+JSR Early Access)

>I generally like the language cleanup that is going on with the JSR version,
>but there is one thing that seems quite wrong to me:
>
>"all blocks should commence on the same line. A warning is generated if this
>is not the case"

This is very un-Java-like.  I have used the coding convention:

while (condition)
{
}

For 20 years in C, C++, Java, and now (non-JSR) Groovy.  I know that this is not  the K&R style, but I, and many
others, find it very readable.  To make white space significant at this point seems to be a major violation
of the C/C++/Java tradition.  Making semicolons optional is weird, but I can always put them in or even run a
lint-like program to enforce the coding convention, but a built-in compiler warning seems extreme.

IIRC, closures require the block to begin on the same line and this was an annoyance and inconsistency, but I
had hoped it was going to be fixed.

Has the JSR group already committed to "all blocks should cmmmence on the same line"?  Or is there any hope
this might be changed back?

-- Sean

--

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Gmane