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Guillaume Laforge | 4 Apr 2008 23:38
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Re: final Groovy JSR?

Hi Bill,

Thanks a lot for your explanations.
I haven't been able to answer earlier, I'm sorry.

Some comments inline.

On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 8:24 PM, Bill Shannon <bill.shannon@...> wrote:
> [...]
>  You need a spec that's sufficient for someone else to implement
>  Groovy support without reference to your code.  I don't know that
>  much about Groovy, but you might want to split the spec into a
>  language/compiler portion and a runtime portion (assuming runtime
>  support beyond what's in Java SE is needed).

What do you mean by language/compiler portion, and runtime portion exactly?
I just want to be sure I understood correctly.
For the language part, we need to explain the semantics of the
language, its grammar, etc.
For the runtime part, you mean things like the libraries? ie. a
closure class, a GString class, etc.
Is that what you meant?

> Do you want someone
>  else to be able to implement a Groovy compiler that generates code
>  that works with your runtime?  And vice versa?  And if the Groovy
>  compiler or interpreter needs to be available to applications at
>  runtime, how does that work and what level of mix-and-match do you
>  want to support?
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Guillaume Laforge | 4 Apr 2008 23:41
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Re: final Groovy JSR?

Bonjour Liz,

On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 11:37 AM, Liz M Kiener <Liz@...> wrote:
>
>  Bonjour Guillaume -
>
>  It has been a while since you took over this JSR and we corresponded last.
> Your next stage for this JSR is the EDR.  You should have seen email from me
> regarding any planned stages before JavaOne.

Alright, I saw it.
It'll take me some time to get the EDR finished, and it won't be before JavaOne.

> Will you make it to San Francisco for JavaOne?

Yes.

> The PMO will once again host an EG meeting room.

Yup, I saw that, this is handy.

> I am attaching the EDR presentation for you outlining the deliverables for
> submission to the PMO.  You may want to take the opportunity to put an
> update on the Community Update Page of the JSR and send me a schedule update
> for the JSR detail page.
>
>  If you have any questions please contact me.

Merci beaucoup :-)
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Guillaume Laforge | 5 Apr 2008 00:33
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Re: final Groovy JSR?

On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 11:59 PM, Bill Shannon <bill.shannon@...> wrote:
> [...]
> > Back on the level of integration mentioned above, and on this
> > portability / interoperability aspect, Groovy mandates a seamless
> > integration with Java. But does it mean we'd also mandate a perfect
> > interoperability with other Groovy implementations?
> >
>
>  I think it would be better if you did, but it's up to you to decide.

Yes, for sure, conceptually speaking, this would be desired.
For Java, this is simpler as a call to a method is directly encoded in
the bytecode.
No intermediary layer of indirection.
It then just depends on the runtime part (JDK classes, third party
libraries, etc)
But for a dynamic language, in the bytecode you'll find some calls to
utility classes handling the double dispatch.
Some of them are public APIs (which will be part of the JSR), but
others may be present that are specific to each implementation.
So we'll have to think deeper as to what we really want to make portable or not.
Tricky issue :-)

> [...]
>  You're allowed to make that choice.  It's up to your expert group to
>  decide whether that's a good choice.  Personally, I think this might
>  be acceptable for a first release, but long term it will limit
>  acceptance of Groovy.  But you should work through the scenarios for
>  how you expect people to use Groovy to see if it will be an issue for
>  you.  For example, do you expect people to write libraries using Groovy,
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Guillaume Laforge | 5 Apr 2008 19:10
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Fwd: final Groovy JSR?

Wasn't delivered.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Bill Shannon <bill.shannon@...>
Date: Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 11:59 PM
Subject: Re: final Groovy JSR?
To: Guillaume Laforge <glaforge@...>
Cc: jsr-241-comments@..., Groovy JSR <jsr@...>

Guillaume Laforge wrote:

> On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 8:24 PM, Bill Shannon <bill.shannon@...> wrote:
>
> > [...]
> >  You need a spec that's sufficient for someone else to implement
> >  Groovy support without reference to your code.  I don't know that
> >  much about Groovy, but you might want to split the spec into a
> >  language/compiler portion and a runtime portion (assuming runtime
> >  support beyond what's in Java SE is needed).
> >
>
> What do you mean by language/compiler portion, and runtime portion exactly?
> I just want to be sure I understood correctly.
> For the language part, we need to explain the semantics of the
> language, its grammar, etc.
> For the runtime part, you mean things like the libraries? ie. a
> closure class, a GString class, etc.
> Is that what you meant?
>
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Guillaume Laforge | 5 Apr 2008 19:10
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Fwd: final Groovy JSR?

Wasn't delivered.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Bill Shannon <bill.shannon@...>
Date: Sat, Apr 5, 2008 at 12:40 AM
Subject: Re: final Groovy JSR?
To: Guillaume Laforge <glaforge@...>
Cc: jsr-241-comments@..., Groovy JSR <jsr@...>

Guillaume Laforge wrote:

>
> >  For example, do you expect people to write libraries using Groovy,
> >  which they would distribute as jar files?
> >
>
> Right.
> This has always been possible (as long as you have the Groovy runtime
> on your classpath).
>

 But what if the library is compiled by Foo's Groovy compiler and my
 program using the library is compiled by Bar's Groovy compiler?

 You have to decide whether this is important and/or likely.  I agree
 you can probably ignore this for the first version.

 Will this get any easier in Java SE 7 with the new dynamic language
 bytecode?
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Guillaume Laforge | 25 Apr 2008 20:21
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Groovy 1.5.6 is out!

Hi all,

G2One and the Groovy development team is pleased to announce the
release of Groovy 1.5.6, a bug fix release for the stable Groovy 1.5.x
branch.

A regression introduced in 1.5.5 was fixed, and 35 bugs have been
resolved (generics, MOP, and joint compiler issues, better line
information for IDE support, etc)

As usual, you can download the latest Groovy dustribution here:
http://groovy.codehaus.org/Download

And read the change log to know all the details there:
http://jira.codehaus.org/browse/GROOVY?report=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.project:changelog-panel

Enjoy!

--

-- 
Guillaume Laforge
Groovy Project Manager
G2One, Inc. Vice-President Technology
http://www.g2one.com

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