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Frans Englich | 1 Aug 2004 01:02
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KAdmin


For long buzzed about is KAdmin, similar to KControl but 
does only contain server administration functionality(which KControl have in 
addition to user preferences), and has KParts as content instead of 
KCModules. 
KAdmin would have kernel configuration, boot manager,  "pseudo modules" 
linking to web admin interfaces, kuser, KIOSK(no, that's nothing you need as 
a regular user) -- all integrated under one roof. KAdmin would typically be 
installed on servers only.

Why is KAdmin needed and what problems does it solve?

* Administration software is more than simple configuration options -- it's a 
working area. Some understandable needs toolbars, menus and so forth, and 
have tried implementing it in KCModules(QWidget) and it doesn't work -- it's 
like squeezing an elephant through a key hole. Administration functionality 
needs the flexibility KParts offers; a widget in a dialog is insufficient.

* It is hard to design a KControl when it has such a wide role and demands on 
flexibility and expandability. When administration functionality is taken 
care of elsewhere, its scope is narrow, and designing the content(categories 
etc.) and representation(the GUI) gets easier. KControl can become a simple 
application for user preferences.

* As noted above, administration stuff lives between KCModule and standalone 
apps -- the former to small, the latter usually overkill. KAdmin would reduce 
the number of entries in the KMenu, group related together and bring 
consistency -- like KControl. A unified way of handling root permissions, and 
less code.
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Benjamin Meyer | 1 Aug 2004 01:23
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Re: KAdmin


On Saturday 31 July 2004 7:02 pm, Frans Englich wrote:
> For long buzzed about is KAdmin, similar to KControl but
> does only contain server administration functionality(which KControl have
> in addition to user preferences), and has KParts as content instead of
> KCModules.
> KAdmin would have kernel configuration, boot manager,  "pseudo modules"
> linking to web admin interfaces, kuser, KIOSK(no, that's nothing you need
> as a regular user) -- all integrated under one roof. KAdmin would typically
> be installed on servers only.
>
>
> Why is KAdmin needed and what problems does it solve?
>
> * Administration software is more than simple configuration options -- it's
> a working area. Some understandable needs toolbars, menus and so forth, and
> have tried implementing it in KCModules(QWidget) and it doesn't work --
> it's like squeezing an elephant through a key hole. Administration
> functionality needs the flexibility KParts offers; a widget in a dialog is
> insufficient.

Just curious if you can list some specific examples ( no matter how small ) of 
how kcm didn't work and couldn't live up to what was needed. 

-Benjamin Meyer

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aka icefox
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Frans Englich | 1 Aug 2004 01:56
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Re: KAdmin

On Saturday 31 July 2004 23:23, Benjamin Meyer wrote:
> On Saturday 31 July 2004 7:02 pm, Frans Englich wrote:
> > For long buzzed about is KAdmin, similar to KControl but
> > does only contain server administration functionality(which KControl have
> > in addition to user preferences), and has KParts as content instead of
> > KCModules.
> > KAdmin would have kernel configuration, boot manager,  "pseudo modules"
> > linking to web admin interfaces, kuser, KIOSK(no, that's nothing you need
> > as a regular user) -- all integrated under one roof. KAdmin would
> > typically be installed on servers only.
> >
> >
> > Why is KAdmin needed and what problems does it solve?
> >
> > * Administration software is more than simple configuration options --
> > it's a working area. Some understandable needs toolbars, menus and so
> > forth, and have tried implementing it in KCModules(QWidget) and it
> > doesn't work -- it's like squeezing an elephant through a key hole.
> > Administration functionality needs the flexibility KParts offers; a
> > widget in a dialog is insufficient.
>
> Just curious if you can list some specific examples ( no matter how small )
> of how kcm didn't work and couldn't live up to what was needed.

Sure, I'll try. Pupeno's User KCM(currently not in the KDE repository?) had 
this problem -- it needed toolbars. Other than that, I'll use a theoretical 
argument which covers the future need(which will emerge if we want 
server-side configuration, the "enterprise desktop" inside KDE):

In preference dialogs the main point is configuration option, which current
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Adriaan de Groot | 1 Aug 2004 02:03
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Re: KAdmin

On Sunday 01 August 2004 01:02, Frans Englich wrote:
> For long buzzed about is KAdmin, similar to KControl but
> does only contain server administration functionality(which KControl have
> in addition to user preferences), and has KParts as content instead of
> KCModules.
> KAdmin would have kernel configuration, boot manager,  "pseudo modules"
> linking to web admin interfaces, kuser, KIOSK(no, that's nothing you need
> as a regular user) -- all integrated under one roof. KAdmin would typically
> be installed on servers only.

You mean tweakBSD (for system configuration) or a combination of klilo + kuser 
+ some other bits. Some of Simon's firewall stuff, done in PyKDE, perhaps. 
It's been started before. It's been argued over before. And the consensus 
each time seems to have been that a lot of it is too system-specific, and the 
remainder already has tools for it.

--

-- 
   "On top of that [watching KDE CVS] is interesting in a perverse 
    way, like watching sausage get made. By very smart people." - dkite
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Aaron J. Seigo | 1 Aug 2004 02:35
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Re: KAdmin

On Saturday 31 July 2004 06:03, Adriaan de Groot wrote:
> You mean tweakBSD (for system configuration) or a combination of klilo +
> kuser + some other bits. Some of Simon's firewall stuff, done in PyKDE,
> perhaps. It's been started before. It's been argued over before. And the
> consensus each time seems to have been that a lot of it is too
> system-specific, and the remainder already has tools for it.

and yet we have several items under "System Administration" in KControl today 
and several more apps in kdeadmin. we also have the situation of OS vendors 
who have control panels of their own with no way to nicely integrate it with 
KDE. Mandrake, Red Hat, etc.. just ignore it, SUSE comes closest with their 
YAST entries though even that is frought with drawbacks.

also it allows us to employ a task-appropriate multiwindow approach for admin 
tasks (e.g. multiple windows open at once) which is not nearly as 
task-appropriate in KControl itself. and it relieves KControl of some burdon 
by moving some things out of there that simply aren't a day-to-day concern 
for the vast majority of desktop users.

given that Frans and some others are willing to code this (which will amount 
basically to a nav panel) i'm supportive of it for KDE4...

--

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Aaron J. Seigo
GPG Fingerprint: 8B8B 2209 0C6F 7C47 B1EA  EE75 D6B7 2EB1 A7F1 DB43
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Lubos Lunak | 1 Aug 2004 11:35
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Re: [Konsole-devel] [PATCH] #83974 - incorrect WM_CLASS in Konsole

Dne so 31. července 2004 15:04 Waldo Bastian napsal(a):
> On Friday 30 July 2004 22:08, Fredrik Höglund wrote:
> > Given that the first Xorg release with composite support is scheduled for
> > August, and the possibility that there will be a long delay before KDE 4
> > is released, I don't think reverting this feature over this issue will be
> > popular among users.
>
> Having to deal with the bugreports isn't popular among developers, feel
> free to make your own release if you think it's so important that it should
> break other stuff. I don't want to have to deal with the bugs caused by it
> on bugs.kde.org.
>
> Once it can be done properly it can go in, till that time it should stay
> out.

 Cool, can we do the same with the hackish fake transparency?

--

-- 
 Lubos Lunak
 KDE Developer
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Lubos Lunak | 1 Aug 2004 11:58
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Re: [Konsole-devel] [PATCH] #83974 - incorrect WM_CLASS in Konsole

Dne ne 1. srpna 2004 11:35 Lubos Lunak napsal(a):
> Dne so 31. července 2004 15:04 Waldo Bastian napsal(a):
> > On Friday 30 July 2004 22:08, Fredrik Höglund wrote:
> > > Given that the first Xorg release with composite support is scheduled
> > > for August, and the possibility that there will be a long delay before
> > > KDE 4 is released, I don't think reverting this feature over this issue
> > > will be popular among users.
> >
> > Having to deal with the bugreports isn't popular among developers, feel
> > free to make your own release if you think it's so important that it
> > should break other stuff. I don't want to have to deal with the bugs
> > caused by it on bugs.kde.org.
> >
> > Once it can be done properly it can go in, till that time it should stay
> > out.
>
>  Cool, can we do the same with the hackish fake transparency?

 I meant fake transparency all over KDE, of course (kicker, popups,...). Not 
that I'm serious here, my self-preservation instinct wouldn't let me.

 There could be other ways of handling this problem. I could add a patch to 
qt-copy/patches moving the transparency code to Qt and just add a flag to 
enable it instead of using the foreign-app QApplication ctor. This could be 
done in binary compatible way without creating a dependency on this patched 
Qt version, and the ARGB visual work would work only with it.

 Either way, this needs proper handling in official Qt (and Fredrik, you 
haven't answered my question).
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Maks Orlovich | 1 Aug 2004 17:17
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Re: [Konsole-devel] [PATCH] #83974 - incorrect WM_CLASS in Konsole


>  Cool, can we do the same with the hackish fake transparency?

IMHO, for KDE4 (3.4?) we should require COMPOSITE for transparency and kill 
all faked stuff.
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Waldo Bastian | 1 Aug 2004 17:27
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Re: BR 79814: KIO bug

On Saturday 31 July 2004 19:41, Dawit A. wrote:
> Waldo,
>
> Can please take a look at BR 79813 when you get a chance ? This is a
> problem with a POST request that returns data to be saved into a file. If
> you pick an existing file to save the data into, the file io-slave
> correctly correctly an error (ERR_FILE_ALREADY_EXIST). However, this seems
> to cause the other end (http io-slave) to be disconnected and returned to
> the scheduler there by getting rid of our data. I think we need to do
> something to prevent this in TransferJob::slotFinished. Otherwise, we end
> up doing a new GET which will not work. See the test case provided in
> comment #3 of the bug report.
>
> Could we check what the error message and not disconnect io-slave so we
> won't lose our data ? Would that even work ?

See my comments to the bugreport. Returning ERR_FILE_ALREADY_EXIST in the 
"put" io-slave before doing the first dataReq actually seems to solve the 
problem and in general seems to be the Right Thing To Do (tm).

Cheers,
Waldo

PS: I do wonder what the behavior should be if there is both a partial file 
and the destination file, looking at the code it first seems to ask for 
resumption and then later asks whether to overwrite?? Isn't that a bit too 
much?
--

-- 
bastian <at> kde.org  |   KDE Community World Summit 2004  |  bastian <at> suse.com
bastian <at> kde.org  | 21-29 August, Ludwigsburg, Germany |  bastian <at> suse.com
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Guillaume Laurent | 1 Aug 2004 17:46

Re: app states broken in 3.3 ?

On Saturday 31 July 2004 17:23, Guillaume Laurent wrote:
> On Thursday 29 July 2004 09:56, Guillaume Laurent wrote:
> > It seems that application state changes no longer work in 3.3beta2 (at
> > least that's what I'm seeing with Rosegarden). I haven't investigated
> > yet, can anybody confirm this ?
>
> The attached patch fixes the problem. May I commit ?

Having received no complains, I committed it.

--

-- 
						Guillaume.
						http://www.telegraph-road.org
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