Urs Wolfer | 2 Jan 2008 01:22
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[kde-artists] [Bug 122897] Optimize PNG file size with optipng

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http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=122897         

------- Additional Comments From uwolfer kde org  2008-01-02 01:22 -------
I have just ran this optimization again in trunk:
SVN commit 755647 by uwolfer:

Optimize PNG files again.
Last optimization has been done almost two years ago. There a lot of new files in trunk (e.g all Oxygen stuff).
It's now the correct time to do that again (before the release).

This run saves again around 10MB of diskspace without any restrictions.
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Kolik Kolik | 2 Jan 2008 15:25
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[kde-artists] KDE Logo

I'd just like to say, I don't really like the KDE logo. It's not very stylish, actually, I think it's kind of ugly. There's a square - not very likable geometric shape, there's a K letter - ok, but what's a K, it's just a letter, and it even does not look very well - ugly font. And there's a screw - or what it is? Why is it there? Are we in a factory? Looks bad. Please, consider moving to some kind of modern design, so that it does not feel annoying down there on a panel (thanks for that opensuse logo - see like nice it looks there?)

And this Konqi stuff - it's just infantile, sorry. Please do not put those pictures anywhere in the desktop. Hated it at the logout dialog.

Buy
Kolik

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Jakob Petsovits | 2 Jan 2008 15:41
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Re: [kde-artists] KDE Logo

On Wednesday, 2. January 2008, Kolik Kolik wrote:
> I'd just like to say, I don't really like the KDE logo. It's not very
> stylish, actually, I think it's kind of ugly. There's a square - not very
> likable geometric shape, there's a K letter - ok, but what's a K, it's just
> a letter, and it even does not look very well - ugly font. And there's a
> screw - or what it is? Why is it there? Are we in a factory? Looks bad.
> Please, consider moving to some kind of modern design, so that it does not
> feel annoying down there on a panel (thanks for that opensuse logo - see
> like nice it looks there?)
>
> And this Konqi stuff - it's just infantile, sorry. Please do not put those
> pictures anywhere in the desktop. Hated it at the logout dialog.

Personally, I disagree on every point that was mentioned in this mail.

Artists, keep on rocking! Cheers,
  Jakob
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Eike Hein | 2 Jan 2008 15:47
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Re: [kde-artists] KDE Logo

Kolik Kolik wrote:
> It's not very stylish

It's been jazzed up somewhat in the most recent incarnation[1]

> There's a square - not very likable geometric shape

It's been rounded somewhat in the most recent incarnation[1].

> there's a K letter - ok, but what's a K, it's just a letter

It's the initial of the product name. Referring to things by
their initials is a widely established practice in our tar-
get demographic (roughly, humans).

> and it even does not look very well - ugly font. 

The type face used in the KDE logo is Rudolf Koch's "Kabel",
which is considered a classic among the geometric sans-serifs
and continues to be widely used in professional design for
the screen and print. You might not like it personally, but
speaking objectively, it's not a bad font at all.

> And there's a screw - or what it is? 

It's a gear.

> Why is it there?

A set of gears was the early prominent artwork identifying
KDE, and at some point the gear was merged with the initial
to produce a distinctive, recognizable lineart logo. By vir-
tue of KDE being roughly in the business of making things
happen for the user - both as a technology platform and as
an application itself - I think it fits rather well.

> (thanks for that opensuse logo - see like nice it looks there?)
> [...]
> And this Konqi stuff - it's just infantile, sorry. Please do not put those
> pictures anywhere in the desktop. Hated it at the logout dialog.

So let me get this straight: You're having mighty problems
with a green dragon mascot, but you're just loving that
green smiling chameleon mascot in your openSUSE logo?

FWIW, it's no longer in the logout dialog in KDE 4.0.

1 = http://www.kde.org/stuff/clipart/klogo-official-oxygen-128x128.png

> Buy
> Kolik

--

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Eike Hein, hein <at> kde.org
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Kolik Kolik | 2 Jan 2008 16:07
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Re: [kde-artists] KDE Logo

> It's been rounded somewhat in the most recent incarnation[1].

Well, i didn't mean it like that. Doesn't matter it's rounded. I'm not an artist, but should there not be something like 'golden ratio' taken into account?

> It's the initial of the product name. Referring to things by their initials is a widely established practice in our tar-get demographic (roughly, humans).

I don't thinks so. But even if it is true, it still can look nicer - look at the kpdf icon. Looks good, because it's not just a letter, it actually represents something. Letter is boring.

> A set of gears was the early prominent artwork identifying KDE, and at some point the gear was merged with the initial to produce a distinctive, recognizable lineart logo.

Still, I think it could be made look better.

> So let me get this straight: You're having mighty problems with a green dragon mascot, but you're just loving that green smiling chameleon mascot in your openSUSE logo?

Well, chameleon is real, dragon only exists in a tale ;)
However, the difference is that the chameleon logo is clear, it's flat, it's not a drawing, it's a logo. 

> FWIW, it's no longer in the logout dialog in KDE 4.0.

Thanks for that, anyway :)

Kolik
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Anne-Marie Mahfouf | 2 Jan 2008 22:21
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Re: [kde-artists] KDE Logo

Le Wednesday 02 January 2008 10:07:28 am Kolik Kolik, vous avez écrit :
>
> Thanks for that, anyway :)
>
> Kolik

Don't you have some kind of concrete proposal? Like the K logo is squared and 
uses a ugly font: can't you propose a more rounded one with a better font 
then?

By the way, we need logos for KDE-Edu so I'd happy to hear any idea you could 
have!

Thanks in advance, Happy New Year,

Anne-Marie

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Aaron J. Seigo | 2 Jan 2008 16:52
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Re: [kde-artists] KDE Logo

On Wednesday 02 January 2008, Kolik Kolik wrote:
> I'd just like to say, I don't really like the KDE logo. It's not very
> stylish, actually, I think it's kind of ugly. There's a square - not very
> likable geometric shape, there's a K letter - ok, but what's a K, it's just
> a letter, and it even does not look very well - ugly font. And there's a
> screw - or what it is? Why is it there? Are we in a factory? Looks bad.

i'd recommend researching the history of the KDE iconography and keeping in 
mind that this is about branding. it also needs to translate perfectly to two 
colour print, small sizes and large banners.

now, there are some things i, too, dislike about the KDE logo but it's not the 
use of a "K" and a gear, it's more the little things like the placement of 
the gear teeth (the right most tooth is partially ocluded by the letter which 
increases the visual complexity of the logo) and how the exact placement of 
the K makes it look a bit like a person in a wheelchair. these are things 
that could probably be addressed with relatively minor visual tweakings.

perhaps you could try and, with sensitivity to the branding issues, come up 
with a variant that works better. any results would end up having to be 
vetted both by the artists here who have artistic design control as well as 
by the larger KDE community as this is a shared community symbol.

note that altering a logo, even in small ways, is a laborious and hugely time 
intensive job. i've gone through several corporate and product imaging 
processes in my professional life and even if the results are visually 
simplistic, it's a long journey to get to the Right Thing(tm).

p.s. it is out of respect for the sort of work that has been involved and that 
would be involved to move it even further that i personally would stay away 
from invectives such as "infantile" and rhetoric like "Are we in a factory?" 
(that latter question actually displays a lack of historical context on your 
part, since gear iconography has a long history in the project). let's try 
and keep things on a positive and constructive note, ok? =)

--

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Aaron J. Seigo
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Kolik Kolik | 2 Jan 2008 17:15
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Re: [kde-artists] KDE Logo

> p.s. it is out of respect for the sort of work that has been involved and that
> would be involved to move it even further that i personally would stay away
> from invectives such as "infantile" and rhetoric like "Are we in a factory?"
> (that latter question actually displays a lack of historical context on your
> part, since gear iconography has a long history in the project). let's try
> and keep things on a positive and constructive note, ok? =)

I apologize, I didn't mean to be offensive, just used a bit expressive language.

Actually, I really don't know the historical context. However, though I am not an artist, I'm a developer and when I have my software tested by somebody uninvolved and untouched by history, his opinions are extremely valuable for me. So I thought you would like to know what kind of feeling does the logo leave in a (almost) new user.

Of course, I appreciate all the work you have done so far!

Bye
Kolik

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pinheiro | 2 Jan 2008 22:37
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Re: [kde-artists] KDE Logo

A Wednesday 02 January 2008 15:07:28, Kolik Kolik escreveu:
> > It's been rounded somewhat in the most recent incarnation[1].
>
> Well, i didn't mean it like that. Doesn't matter it's rounded. I'm not an
> artist, but should there not be something like 'golden ratio' taken into
> account?
dude of all the arguments this one is the one that realy makes me want kill 
some myself... golden ration does not produce instant pretyness. art can be 
mesured by a ruler and a calculator... nor it can be done like that...

> > It's the initial of the product name. Referring to things by their
>
> initials is a widely established practice in our tar-get demographic
> (roughly, humans).
>
> I don't thinks so. But even if it is true, it still can look nicer - look
> at the kpdf icon. Looks good, because it's not just a letter, it actually
> represents something. Letter is boring.
that is your opinion right?
> > A set of gears was the early prominent artwork identifying KDE, and at
>
> some point the gear was merged with the initial to produce a distinctive,
> recognizable lineart logo.
>
> Still, I think it could be made look better.

not has easy as you might think.... logos are realy tryky buisness.

> > So let me get this straight: You're having mighty problems with a green
>
> dragon mascot, but you're just loving that green smiling chameleon mascot
> in your openSUSE logo?
>
> Well, chameleon is real, dragon only exists in a tale ;)
> However, the difference is that the chameleon logo is clear, it's flat,
> it's not a drawing, it's a logo.
>
> > FWIW, it's no longer in the logout dialog in KDE 4.0.
>
> Thanks for that, anyway :)
>
> Kolik

the mascot needs IMO a redesign but remembr its a maskot not a logo.

--

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core oxygen icon designer
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pinheiro | 2 Jan 2008 22:30
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Re: [kde-artists] KDE Logo

A Wednesday 02 January 2008 14:25:39, Kolik Kolik escreveu:
> I'd just like to say, I don't really like the KDE logo. It's not very
> stylish, actually, I think it's kind of ugly. There's a square - not very
> likable geometric shape, there's a K letter - ok, but what's a K, it's just
> a letter, and it even does not look very well - ugly font. And there's a
> screw - or what it is? Why is it there? Are we in a factory? Looks bad.
> Please, consider moving to some kind of modern design, so that it does not
> feel annoying down there on a panel (thanks for that opensuse logo - see
> like nice it looks there?)

Hi there are a huge amout of history around the gears and the K alot of 
branding involved, so move will not be done in one day, i personaly like the 
new one alot...

> And this Konqi stuff - it's just infantile, sorry. Please do not put those
> pictures anywhere in the desktop. Hated it at the logout dialog.

Not a big fan myself the new one is more like this..... 
http://nuno-icons.com/images/estilo/end.png

> Buy
> Kolik

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