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Stephan Binner | 6 Jun 2006 13:56
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[kde-artists] branches/KDE/3.5/kdelibs/pics/crystalsvg

SVN commit 548722 by binner:

application neutral Bittorrent mime type icons, from
http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=10888

 AM            cr128-mime-bt.png  
 AM            cr16-mime-bt.png  
 AM            cr22-mime-bt.png  
 AM            cr32-mime-bt.png  
 AM            cr48-mime-bt.png  
 AM            cr64-mime-bt.png  

** branches/KDE/3.5/kdelibs/pics/crystalsvg/cr128-mime-bt.png #property svn:mime-type
   + application/octet-stream
** branches/KDE/3.5/kdelibs/pics/crystalsvg/cr16-mime-bt.png #property svn:mime-type
   + application/octet-stream
** branches/KDE/3.5/kdelibs/pics/crystalsvg/cr22-mime-bt.png #property svn:mime-type
   + application/octet-stream
** branches/KDE/3.5/kdelibs/pics/crystalsvg/cr32-mime-bt.png #property svn:mime-type
   + application/octet-stream
** branches/KDE/3.5/kdelibs/pics/crystalsvg/cr48-mime-bt.png #property svn:mime-type
   + application/octet-stream
** branches/KDE/3.5/kdelibs/pics/crystalsvg/cr64-mime-bt.png #property svn:mime-type
   + application/octet-stream
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Jarosław Staniek | 6 Jun 2006 23:15
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[kde-artists] Oxygen color palette - license

Hello,
 From http://kde-artists.org/views/guidelines :

"The Oxygen color palette is released under the Creative Commons 
Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs 2.5 License."

IANAL, but does this mean people will not able to use the palette to create 
commercial software with KDE4-compliant look?

Also, "NoDerivs" clause means no less than "I cannot edit the palette, say in 
KOffice styles fro my needs and distribute the style".

Let's think about this issue before KDE4 ships. Maybe this license could be 
better suited for the task:

http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.5/deed.en_GB

--

-- 
regards / pozdrawiam,
  Jaroslaw Staniek / OpenOffice Polska

Sponsored by OpenOffice Polska to work on
* Kexi & KOffice: http://www.kexi-project.org | http://koffice.org/kexi
* KDE3 & KDE4 Libraries For Developing MS Windows Applications:
                   http://www.kdelibs.com/wiki
See also:
* Kexi For MS Windows: http://kexi.pl/wiki/index.php/Kexi_for_MS_Windows
* Kexi Support:        http://www.kexi-project.org/support.html

______________________________________________________________________________
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David Vignoni | 7 Jun 2006 02:08
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Re: [kde-artists] Oxygen color palette - license

Uhm the license refers to the pictures on the website, not the icons
and palettes that in fact are not released yet. But somewhere on the
website it says the icons will be lgpled.

On 6/6/06, Jarosław Staniek <js <at> iidea.pl> wrote:
> Hello,
>  From http://kde-artists.org/views/guidelines :
>
> "The Oxygen color palette is released under the Creative Commons
> Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs 2.5 License."
>
> IANAL, but does this mean people will not able to use the palette to create
> commercial software with KDE4-compliant look?
>
> Also, "NoDerivs" clause means no less than "I cannot edit the palette, say in
> KOffice styles fro my needs and distribute the style".
>
> Let's think about this issue before KDE4 ships. Maybe this license could be
> better suited for the task:
>
> http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.5/deed.en_GB
>
> --
> regards / pozdrawiam,
>   Jaroslaw Staniek / OpenOffice Polska
>
> Sponsored by OpenOffice Polska to work on
> * Kexi & KOffice: http://www.kexi-project.org | http://koffice.org/kexi
> * KDE3 & KDE4 Libraries For Developing MS Windows Applications:
>                    http://www.kdelibs.com/wiki
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Danil Dotsenko | 12 Jun 2006 06:17

[kde-artists] Pencil fetish in Oxygen icons

I was told (in the posting on dot) to discuss the concerns about the Oxygen 
icons in here - kde-artists.

I just looked at the latest SVN update and see more major app icons with 
prominent pencils in them. Kate, and Kwrite are fine, but Knotes? I thought 
Kmail icon with a pen was strange...  This love affair with pointy objects is 
really going too far and crosses the limits of reasonable.

Most of applications on our desktops create content in one way or another. 
Even Konqueror is used to enter textual content into blogs and web-mails. Do 
we stick a pen / pencil in the icon of Konqueror as well?

I seriously start to miss Everaldo's common sense.  The present crew can draw, 
but 1/3 of the application icons are NOT "application icons." They 
are "action icons" What gives and how do we fix the flawed thinking? 

--

-- 
Danil Dotsenko

 (\ /)
(O.o)
(> <)
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Jonathan Riddell | 7 Jun 2006 00:52
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Re: [kde-artists] Oxygen color palette - license

On Tue, Jun 06, 2006 at 11:15:45PM +0200, Jaros?aw Staniek wrote:
> Hello,
>  From http://kde-artists.org/views/guidelines :
> 
> "The Oxygen color palette is released under the Creative Commons 
> Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs 2.5 License."
> 
> IANAL, but does this mean people will not able to use the palette to create 
> commercial software with KDE4-compliant look?
> 
> Also, "NoDerivs" clause means no less than "I cannot edit the palette, say in 
> KOffice styles fro my needs and distribute the style".
> 
> Let's think about this issue before KDE4 ships. Maybe this license could be 
> better suited for the task:
> 
> http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.5/deed.en_GB

It's currently under a restrictive licence to stop people packaging it
and using it.  The artists want the Oxygen style to look fresh when
it's ready, the licence will change when it is more complete.

Jonathan
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Torsten Rahn | 12 Jun 2006 17:33
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Re: [kde-artists] Pencil fetish in Oxygen icons

Am Montag, 12. Juni 2006 06:17 schrieb Danil Dotsenko:
> but 1/3 of the application icons are NOT "application icons." They
> are "action icons" What gives and how do we fix the flawed thinking?

Thanks for bringing this to our attention. Do you have any ideas for 
alternatives?

BTW: Many of those icons are just Oxygenized versions of the previous Crystal 
and HiColor Icons. The reason why you might have come to your conclusion is 
that as an artist you start with certain icons. Those icons are often based 
on components (like e.g. the pencil you described). Usually once you realize 
that another icon can reuse that component as well you tend to immediately 
draw the respective icon right after. That's why it's quite typical for 
"young" iconsets that some groups of icons share a similarity.

However your point remains valid. Do you have a suggestion for those icons 
involved how they should look instead ?

Thanks in advance,

Torsten
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Danil Dotsenko | 12 Jun 2006 17:16

Re: [kde-artists] Pencil fetish in Oxygen icons

Monday 12 June 2006 08:33 Torsten Rahn wrote:
> Am Montag, 12. Juni 2006 06:17 schrieb Danil Dotsenko:
> > but 1/3 of the application icons are NOT "application icons." They
> > are "action icons" What gives and how do we fix the flawed thinking?
>
> However your point remains valid. Do you have a suggestion for those icons
> involved how they should look instead ?

My "suggestion" is rather obvious - Just remove the pens / pencils (other misc 
visual trash elements) from the icons. The element's connotations should 
really be central to the application to be on the icon, like paint brush in 
Krita. I looked at the SVGs for knotes and Kmail, removed the "sticks" and 
found that the remaining parts (yellow stickie and envelope) are quite good 
on their own.

The icons are not badly done, they are overdone. Too many elements, for no 
observable reason. Extra elements bring wrong connotation to the composition.

When thinking about adding an element, think not what that element will do 
good; think how it will detract / skew your icon. Detractions, no matter how 
small, always outweigh positives.

Sometimes, if you force yourself to create a "different" product you end up 
limited in freedom of creating a "better" product. If a concern about "plain" 
envelop looking like some other platform's application icons is what drives 
this composition overpopulation, priorities are probably in a wrong place. 
That concern has no place in creation of a "good" icon set.

So far, the artwork is good looking and exquisite. Please, don't overdo it.
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James Richard Tyrer | 13 Jun 2006 03:57
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[kde-artists] Oxygen MIME type icons

I think that I am saying this again:

I think that it is a bad idea to show the bottom right corner of the 
page folded.  This was a mistake in CrystalSVG and we shouldn't use that 
mistake as a reason to do it.

Most generic icons have the top right corner of the page folded.  This 
is a de facto standard that should be followed.

Having the lower right corner folded also creates lighting (shadow) 
issues.  IIUC, the light source is normally upper left and the shadow 
from the lower right corner folded does not look like that is the 
position of the light source.

In general, I might suggest that some of the shadows could be refined by 
use of a ray trace 3D rendering app.

--

-- 
JRT
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David Vignoni | 14 Jun 2006 08:05
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Re: [kde-artists] Pencil fetish in Oxygen icons

I can just say the icons are really in a early stage and we will take
in consideration your observation.

About missing Everaldo icons why? you can download them and install
them, ah but you can't "look into the SVG and remove some parts"
because there are no SVGs for crystal-clear.

David

On 6/12/06, Danil Dotsenko <dd <at> accentsolution.com> wrote:
> Monday 12 June 2006 08:33 Torsten Rahn wrote:
> > Am Montag, 12. Juni 2006 06:17 schrieb Danil Dotsenko:
> > > but 1/3 of the application icons are NOT "application icons." They
> > > are "action icons" What gives and how do we fix the flawed thinking?
> >
> > However your point remains valid. Do you have a suggestion for those icons
> > involved how they should look instead ?
>
> My "suggestion" is rather obvious - Just remove the pens / pencils (other misc
> visual trash elements) from the icons. The element's connotations should
> really be central to the application to be on the icon, like paint brush in
> Krita. I looked at the SVGs for knotes and Kmail, removed the "sticks" and
> found that the remaining parts (yellow stickie and envelope) are quite good
> on their own.
>
> The icons are not badly done, they are overdone. Too many elements, for no
> observable reason. Extra elements bring wrong connotation to the composition.
>
> When thinking about adding an element, think not what that element will do
> good; think how it will detract / skew your icon. Detractions, no matter how
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James Richard Tyrer | 14 Jun 2006 20:53
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Re: [kde-artists] Oxygen MIME type icons

David Vignoni wrote:
> On 6/12/06, James Richard Tyrer <tyrerj <at> acm.org> wrote:
>> I think that I am saying this again:
>> 
>> I think that it is a bad idea to show the bottom right corner of
>> the page folded.  This was a mistake in CrystalSVG and we shouldn't
>> use that mistake as a reason to do it.
>> 
>> Most generic icons have the top right corner of the page folded.
>> This is a de facto standard that should be followed.
>> 
>> Having the lower right corner folded also creates lighting (shadow)
>>  issues.  IIUC, the light source is normally upper left and the
>> shadow from the lower right corner folded does not look like that
>> is the position of the light source.
>> 
>> In general, I might suggest that some of the shadows could be
>> refined by use of a ray trace 3D rendering app.
>> 
>> -- JRT

> That's an interesting point of view but I guess we won't change this 
> at all, at least, not untill the theme is finished and thousands of 
> people complain about the bottom right flap.
> 
> David

I really don't see that as a good attitude.  Design and usability 
shouldn't be determined by waiting for complaints.
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Gmane