[kde-artists] The need for management

Yes, even though this is an Open Source Software project, we need 
management.  Especially with KDE (and any other similar projects) 
because it has become too large to be managed by constructive anarchy.

DA said:

> "Stepping on toes" is an inevitable consequence of doing work within KDE, in 
> my opinion.

WRONG, anyone that thinks that way needs to rethink their position.

Now, I don't mean that we won't have disagreement.  We should have 
disagreements.  Engineers argue (somewhat vehemently) about how do do 
things.  The problem I see with the WallPaper issue is that the argument 
is getting personal and that it is occurring after the action was taken.

True arguments should alway be about the issue.  I brought up an issue 
on another list a while ago and I thought I was the target of a tag-team 
rhetoric and insult gang.  This could be used as a textbook example of 
how NOT to argue.

So, arguments should stick to the issue.  Also, they should occur before 
an issue is decided.

But, getting back to management.  In business, people think that 
management means other people telling you what to do.  That isn't really 
the case.  Management determines the process of how decisions are made. 
  And, I note that in any organization, after decisions are made that 
everyone needs to abide by them.

Re: [kde-artists] The need for management

On Thursday 01 September 2005 01:44, James Richard Tyrer wrote:
> DA told me:
> > If every single thing that I did needed to be discussed by some slow
> > mailing list for days, and by disinterested persons, I wouldn't get
> > anything done. So, I use my judgement, discuss potentially controvertial
> > changes with others ard wait for your disagreement mail  :)

I think he has a point about mailing lists. They're not a very easy way to 
involve lots of people. If I want to view KDE mailinglists, I need to sign up 
to them and once I've signed up, I get more emails from each mailinglist than 
I do from my friends. It's also very hard to see what was posted before you 
signed up (which results in a lot of repetition (especially on kde-usability)

If we wanted to involve as many people in the decision making process as 
possible (and hence avoid stepping on peoples toes) we really need a 
browsable forum. In order for it to succeed, it would need

1) General information on KDE (and help/support, like the Gentoo forums, which 
are about the 3rd link on "gg:forums" ), to involve newcomers in the project 

2) A Decision Making forum for each area (areas relating to each of the KDE 
mailinglists, which is clearly marked as such and contains only relevant 
proposals

3) Documentation and resources for programmers (including style guides and the 
HIG) all in the same place with discussion pointed towards sister threads in 
"Decision Making" to keep it clean

4) Most important of all: The ability to receive the entire contents of a 
section of the forum (including new posts) by email in text only format and 

Re: [kde-artists] default artwork for 3.5

On Wednesday 31 August 2005 10:31 am, you wrote:
...
> I am very sorry if I seemed rude, but when people spring things on me
> this way I tend to react to harshly I guess. I am sorry if I hurt your
> feelings in any way.

No, you did not hurt my feelings. 

> The facts of the matter are this: I have acted as maintainer for several
> years now, however, this being artwork I did not take over like many
> technical project maintainers. I do very much like the idea of getting
> feedback and information from websites, but I do not think that it is a
> good idea to let the people who vote on the artists site decide
> everything. How many of them are even using KDE? How many of them are
> developing for KDE? How many of them have any clue whatsoever about
> artwork? How many of them are in the eV?
>
> So, although it is a good source of information it is in no way a
> deciding factor for what is included in the release.

I think I need to clarify about the polls. The purpose of the polls on 
kde-artists.org was to decide which wallpaper to present to the kde-artists 
mailing list. It was _not_ to decide which one was to be included as default.  
I assumed that after I presented the wallpapers that there would be a 
discussion about whether or not we wanted to use one as the default or what 
changes were needed to make to them better, etc, etc. But instead of the 
typical discussion I was attacked. The artists on the website are in no way 
trying to take over. We just want to contribute. Ken did not take the time to 
ask me to clarify or find to the purpose behind the polls. He jumped to 
conclusions and based his harsh words on these vast assumptions. It is not 

[kde-artists] To all. :o)

Dear list, and any newcomers.

I think a lot of us have been following the recent activity on the kde-artists 
list. The recent discussion concerning artwork for KDE 3.5 and 4.0 should not 
include a flamewar. I think we all prefer not to see such an argument.

I suggest perhaps for those directly involved to take a break from this 
escalation. I and I think the rest of the community would be happy to have a 
civilised discussion concerning the artwork needed for 3.5, and the later 
release of 4. We can take into account the guidelines set forth to keep 
consistency, because if we squabble about them we aren't going to get 
anything done and even more on the downside, the community will suffer from 
this.

So, folks, please let us get back on topic, take easy, and actually do what we 
do best. 

Cheers all, and best wishes,

Pascal Klein

--

-- 
Cheerio.
Pascal Klein
Wombat - [http://wombat.nuxified.com]
______________________________________________________________________________
kde-artists <at> kde.org |  https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-artists

Re: [kde-artists] default artwork for 3.5

Hi all,

Time to end this thread..

I did not question anyones integrity. I did not accuse anyone of
anything. I did not suggest that we remove the artists website. I was
unhappy that we spent hours discussing this stuff only to have the
decision that I thought that we reached on IRC to be rescinded in favor
of the results of the kde-artists site poll.

As already stated, the results of this poll should be an indicator of
the acceptance/quality of artwork, not the deciding factor as to what we
use in KDE. In this sense the website serves a very important purpose as
long as the statistics gathered from it are realiable and help KDE.

I think of the artists site as a forum for discussing and collaborating
on new ideas for artwork which will hopefully attract new members and
serve as a starting point for them to work on KDE. I see KDE-look as a
platform for "end-stage" graphics. So, when you are done discussing
ideas, etc. on the kde-artists site you can post your "final" works on
kde-look.org.  Unfortunately there is little connection between the two
sites until now. I suggest improving this.

Sooo....back to wallpapers: I will state my case again, in order to
clear things up.

The only objections I have to using the new wallpaper is that they
include new graphical elements which appear nowhere else in KDE.
Changing things for the sake of change only dilutes the overall
appearance and quality. Very honestly, this would not be the first time

[kde-artists] Throbber replacement...

There is a suitable replacement for the konqueror throbber created by our 
friend James Richard Tyrer. I think we should use it for 3.5, as it is 
superior to our current one (though it does need slight modification).

Attached is the filmstrip image of the throbber.

Danny

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Re: [kde-artists] Throbber replacement...

* Danny Allen <dannya40uk <at> yahoo.co.uk> [Sep 01. 2005 17:53]:
> There is a suitable replacement for the konqueror throbber created by our 
> friend James Richard Tyrer. I think we should use it for 3.5, as it is 
> superior to our current one (though it does need slight modification).

Nice 

Once idea for improvement: the outer line blends into the line around
the widget itself - this could be improved, either by removing the line
in the graphic or inset the line so that the widget does does not
infinge on the natural beauty of the K logo.

Bye,
Ken
--

-- 
Kenneth Wimer
-------------------------------------------------------------
Scheinbare Rechtschreibfehler beruhen auf einer individuellen
Rechtschreibreform
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KDE-Artists.og and KDE-Look.org (was [kde-artists] default artwork for 3.5)

On Thursday 01 September 2005 08:37 am, you wrote:
...
> I think of the artists site as a forum for discussing and collaborating
> on new ideas for artwork which will hopefully attract new members and
> serve as a starting point for them to work on KDE. I see KDE-look as a
> platform for "end-stage" graphics. So, when you are done discussing
> ideas, etc. on the kde-artists site you can post your "final" works on
> kde-look.org.  Unfortunately there is little connection between the two
> sites until now. I suggest improving this.

Yes we agree! This idea will work well with many types of artwork especially 
mock-ups. Although many pieces of artwork are directly requested by 
developers and when they are completed to their satisfaction they just add 
them to their application.

We have always worked with KDE-look to the furthest extent available. We have 
placed banners at no charge all throughout KDE-artists.org that read: "The 
place to publish your KDE artwork. KDE-look.org". We are in the process of 
placing links to KDE-look on every page and giving the add banner a more 
permanent location. We have provided a means for artists to link to their 
KDE-look profile within the profile on KDE-artists.org site. We have always 
encouraged artists to submit their work to KDE-look as this is the best way 
in which to get it showcased. It allows for a much broader user base to 
provide comments. It is also a way for artists to seek out critical 
viewpoints on the art that they produce. 

We would love for KDE-look to work closer with KDE-artists.org. This will be 
very encouraging for all of those that have wanted something like this since 
the beginning of Kollaboration. We have a couple of ideas how we could 
accomplish this very simply and easily. I will contact the KDE-look editors 

Re: [kde-artists] Throbber replacement...

Kenneth Wimer wrote:
> * Danny Allen <dannya40uk <at> yahoo.co.uk> [Sep 01. 2005 17:53]:
> 
>>There is a suitable replacement for the konqueror throbber created by our 
>>friend James Richard Tyrer. I think we should use it for 3.5, as it is 
>>superior to our current one (though it does need slight modification).
> 
Can't help but wonder what this needed "slight modification" is.
> 
> Nice 
> 
> Once idea for improvement: the outer line blends into the line around
> the widget itself - this could be improved, either by removing the line
> in the graphic or inset the line so that the widget does does not
> infinge on the natural beauty of the K logo.

These are made directly from the monochrome KDE Logo [kde.svgz].  I had 
previously made icons from this so it didn't take much to make the 
throbbers.

But, we could make changes.  Although people have asked for a Crystal 
style version (which I am making) I don't really think that doing it 
directly from the CrystalSVG "kmenu" icon is a good idea.  It is going 
to be hard to see in sizes smaller than 32x32.  If we want Crystal 
style, it should probably be simplified.

The simplest would be to just remove the boarder and use a solid blue 
background [kde1.svgz].

Or, perhaps you have some more specific suggestions.

Re: [kde-artists] KDE-Artists.og and KDE-Look.org (was default artwork for 3.5)

On Thursday 01 September 2005 22:30, Janet Theobroma wrote:
[...]

Hi Janet,

| We have always worked with KDE-look to the furthest extent available. We
| have placed banners at no charge all throughout KDE-artists.org that read:
| "The place to publish your KDE artwork. KDE-look.org". 

Cool!

| We are in the 
| process of placing links to KDE-look on every page and giving the add
| banner a more permanent location. We have provided a means for artists to
| link to their KDE-look profile within the profile on KDE-artists.org site.

Janet .. be more vocal about his. Blog about it perhaps?

| We have always encouraged artists to submit their work to KDE-look as this
| is the best way in which to get it showcased. It allows for a much broader
| user base to provide comments. It is also a way for artists to seek out
| critical viewpoints on the art that they produce.

Agreed

| We would love for KDE-look to work closer with KDE-artists.org. This will
| be very encouraging for all of those that have wanted something like this
| since the beginning of Kollaboration. We have a couple of ideas how we
| could accomplish this very simply and easily.