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Norm Smith | 1 Mar 01:22
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Thinlet thoughts...


I have been following Thinlets for over a year and just made the dive into
them about a month ago. As an observer on the forum for about three
weeks, I have been dismayed at the whole Thinlet situation. I applaud the
author for Thinlets and the current new release. I'd also love to see some of
the enhancements that I have seen mentioned in the forum added to the software. 
With that said, I will get a great deal of mileage from Thinlets even if not another line
of code enhancement is made. I understand the wishes of some to keep it small enough
to run in cell phones/PDAs and the wishes to make it bigger with Swing,
fancy table enhancements (editing widgets in table cells would be nice:),
and such. But Thinlets are useful as they are!!

The bottom line, IMHO, is that the magic in Thinlets is they are the right 
abstraction level. They are powerful enough to do useful work and simple
enough that an experienced developer can be productive with a few days
effort. In today's complex software development environments where "Hello World"
can barely be written without a full blown programming language IDE, being
able to put a "happy face" on command line applications for free and with
minimal effort is fantastic! 

I wish both Bajzát Róbert and the new project(s) both the best of luck! I'll
keep using Thinlets for a while and take the "wait and see" approach to
the forked projects. I have no problem changing later; whatever applications
I write with the current Thinlet distribution will still run just fine.

I would like to make one request to the powers to be: Please keep the number of 
forums that we have to a minimum! One is a good number and no more than
two from my point of view. Any more that that indicates too much fragmentation,
which is not good for anybody.
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Timothy Stack | 1 Mar 02:12
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Re: Thinlet Developer Groups Welcomes Thinlet Fork


On Feb 28, 2005, at 2:40 PM, Daniel Munzinger wrote:
>> But, while some of you are giving Robert grief, I say shame on you for
>> that.  The original thinlet is his project, depite his decision to
>> make it available in source form via sourceforge, he can do with it
>> what he pleases.
>
> Full Ack. It's his project.

I just wanted to say that I feel the same way.  I've been very happy
with Thinlet and am extremely grateful that Robert chose to share
his work.

> Daniel

tim stack

_________________________________________________________________
Thinlet Project Site    | http://thinlet.com
Thinlet Addon Central   | http://thinletplus.com
Thinlet World News Blog | http://thinletworld.com
Thinlet F.A.Q.          | http://xul.sourceforge.net/thinfaq.html
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Thor Harald Johansen | 1 Mar 07:43
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Re: Thinlet Developer Groups Welcomes Thinlet Fork


I mostly agree with you. I'm not minimizing Robert's efforts. He's the
reason we're even discussing this. As I wrote earlier in a post to the
list, the rollercoaster is going fast. I think it's going *too* fast.
I had no plans of permanently using the name "ThinletNG", it just
caught on. I wanted a *temporary* name, and because the new project
stems from Thinlet, it seemed allright. If this were to become a fork
in the true sense, using "ThinletNG" would've been no worse than
forking "GIMP" to "FilmGIMP" (now known as CinePaint). But if this
turns out a completely different project, I totally agree.

I think there's a general state of confusion on this list now. Many
people are arguing against posts that have later been clarified and/or
corrected, often presuming things nobody ever said. When I went to bed
last night I actually worried about the amount of posts I would have
to answer in the morning. It was running out of control. It took me 15
minutes to set up a phpBB. It takes me a few seconds to change it's
name. The forum was merely set up so the forkers had a place to talk
outside the list, partially but not completely on the assumption that
Robert ran it. If the new project becomes Thinlet only in the sense of
it's outer appearance and XUL compliance, I still see the need for a
separate list, because it's a separate project.

--

-- 
Thor

On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 12:48:09 -0800 (PST), Timothy Fisher
<trfishermi <at> yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> For the most part I've been watching this discussion from afar.  I am a previous user of Thinlet.  I am a big
(Continue reading)

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Bajzát Róbert | 1 Mar 11:06
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Re: Thinlet thoughts...


It's great, and I'm truly interested in the result of the new project. It
would be the first complete GUI toolkit developed by the community (toolkit,
excluding XML-Swing decoders (e.g. SwixML) or native widget wrappers (e.g.
SWT)). Probably the previous trying was Jazz
(http://web.archive.org/web/20011020063822/jfa.javalobby.org/projects/Jazz.h
tml). I'm completely skeptical, but competition is beneficial for all of us.

And I have to remind you of Thinlet development is driven by the "community"
in the previous one year, it's worth to check the quantity and quality of
CVS diffs (or see my previous post) compared to Gerald's who's who page. Of
course I had to wait for the result of this new process, and didn't want act
as a member of this kind of development. I guess it was the time to close
this period.

_________________________________________________________________
Thinlet Project Site    | http://thinlet.com
Thinlet Addon Central   | http://thinletplus.com
Thinlet World News Blog | http://thinletworld.com
Thinlet F.A.Q.          | http://xul.sourceforge.net/thinfaq.html
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Steve Gillam | 1 Mar 12:34
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Thinlet & ThinletNG


ThinletNG was created rapidly as a response to the fact that people 
were already leaving this forum believing there was no longer an 
option for collaborative development.

Gerald has clarified for us that the forum is dedicated to 
the 'Thinlet' class rather than any specific implementation. So we 
can all continue to live here as a discussion group - great.

We still, though, need an option for collaborative development such 
that discussions can be turned into code. I have already given Robert 
the credit he is due but I have no qualms creating a fork based, in 
the first instance, on the original code that was published open and 
attracted a community - as Alan Williamson (blog city) has said 
elsewhere, "You Can't Put The Genie Back In The Bottle".

We could debate endlessly the name but I've become fond of ThinletNG -
 it respects it's roots (as an implementation of the 
Thinlet 'class'), people searching for it will also find Robert's 
original and there were a group of people involved in it's creation 
who cared enough to actually do something. Nobody thought any less of 
Kirk just because Picard came one the scene! And if we want to change 
it's name later then we can.

ThinletNG now exists as a sourceforge project so those who want to 
start collaborative development can! Now! Anyone interested can head 
on over there (http://sourceforge.net/projects/thinletng/) and join 
as a developer and we can work out admins later. Anyone want to 
contribute a patched source set as initial CVS population?
(Continue reading)

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Thor Harald Johansen | 1 Mar 13:59
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Re: Thinlet & ThinletNG


> ThinletNG now exists as a sourceforge project so those who want to
> start collaborative development can! Now! Anyone interested can head
> on over there (http://sourceforge.net/projects/thinletng/) and join
> as a developer and we can work out admins later. Anyone want to
> contribute a patched source set as initial CVS population?

I'll join, of course. Are we keeping the forum we set up, or do we
start an SF mailing-list?
--

-- 
Thor

_________________________________________________________________
Thinlet Project Site    | http://thinlet.com
Thinlet Addon Central   | http://thinletplus.com
Thinlet World News Blog | http://thinletworld.com
Thinlet F.A.Q.          | http://xul.sourceforge.net/thinfaq.html
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Steve Gillam | 1 Mar 15:22
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Re: Thinlet & ThinletNG


Thank you, I want to increase the list of admins as soon as I can so 
it becomes evident that this is not just a powertrip but a home for 
true collaboration in this area.

I remember when I first started looking at Thinlet being incredibly 
confused that the sourceforge site was nothing more than a CVS 
repository until I stumbled across the Yahoo group. So, -IF- the sf 
mailing lists are up to the job (I hope they are) then I would like 
to see them used as the home.

I will still live here and follow/'contribute' to the larger Thinlet 
community, but certainly whilst things are a little 
bruised/sore/sensitive, it may be sensible to progress pure ThinletNG 
issues (initial CVS population (current thinlet code with patches 
(vectored?) into com.thinletng.engine.orig, packaging into thinletng-
<flavour>.jars, a frame/applet launcher using com.thinletng.thinlet 
interface allowing ANY implementation (Robert's original included) to 
be plugged in) there.

--- In thinlet <at> yahoogroups.com, Thor Harald Johansen <thorhajo <at> g...> 
wrote:
> > ThinletNG now exists as a sourceforge project so those who want to
> > start collaborative development can! Now! Anyone interested can 
head
> > on over there (http://sourceforge.net/projects/thinletng/) and 
join
> > as a developer and we can work out admins later. Anyone want to
> > contribute a patched source set as initial CVS population?
>
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Gerald Bauer | 1 Mar 18:34
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Thinlet Developers Group Now Thinlet and Thinlet NG Developers Group


Hello,

  Again let me stress that all Thinlet NG developers are more than
welcome on this mailinglist. To reflect the change I've renamed the
group to Thinlet and Thinlet NG Developers Group.

  I will also add the Thinlet NG link to the Thinlet Network banner
shortly. See http://thinlet-contrib.sourceforge.net

  - Gerald

_________________________________________________________________
Thinlet Project Site    | http://thinlet.com
Thinlet Addon Central   | http://thinletplus.com
Thinlet World News Blog | http://thinletworld.com
Thinlet F.A.Q.          | http://xul.sourceforge.net/thinfaq.html
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Thor Harald Johansen | 1 Mar 19:32
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Re: Thinlet Developers Group Now Thinlet and Thinlet NG Developers Group


>   Again let me stress that all Thinlet NG developers are more than
> welcome on this mailinglist. To reflect the change I've renamed the
> group to Thinlet and Thinlet NG Developers Group.

>   I will also add the Thinlet NG link to the Thinlet Network banner
> shortly. See http://thinlet-contrib.sourceforge.net

I think we're experiencing a bit of a conflict of interest here. We're
talking past each other. Steve Gilliam and I are working on setting up
a community at SourceForge, with an integrated mailing list/forum
system. We'll primarily be answering ThinletNG questions over there.
I'm staying subscribed here, of course, I'm interested in the original
Thinlet's development, but we're sort of trying to create a separate
community of developers/users here. We're not trying to replace
Thinlet, and we're not encouraging people to leave this mailing list.
If people are on both lists, that's great. But we can't have two lists
for ThinletNG, unless you mark yours as "Unofficial". If you want to
help us develop ThinletNG and help us moderate, I'm sure Steve won't
mind that at all, but let's not have two lists attempting to overlap
the same area.
--

-- 
Thor

_________________________________________________________________
Thinlet Project Site    | http://thinlet.com
Thinlet Addon Central   | http://thinletplus.com
Thinlet World News Blog | http://thinletworld.com
Thinlet F.A.Q.          | http://xul.sourceforge.net/thinfaq.html
(Continue reading)

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Steve Gillam | 1 Mar 19:58
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RE: Thinlet Developers Group Now Thinlet and Thinlet NG Developers Group


Ditto - this is still THE Thinlet group, ThinletNG is just A thinlet
development project - we don't want to be considered as separate as:

    a) We don't want to feel that we're seperate
    b) We don't want anyone else to feel that we're trying to
dilute/seperate this group or it's ideals

We're just putting together an infrastructure where the ideas discussed here
can be taken through and implemented into something.
  -----Original Message-----
  From: Thor Harald Johansen [mailto:thorhajo <at> gmail.com]
  Sent: 01 March 2005 18:33
  To: thinlet <at> yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [thinlet] Thinlet Developers Group Now Thinlet and Thinlet NG
Developers Group

  >   Again let me stress that all Thinlet NG developers are more than
  > welcome on this mailinglist. To reflect the change I've renamed the
  > group to Thinlet and Thinlet NG Developers Group.

  >   I will also add the Thinlet NG link to the Thinlet Network banner
  > shortly. See http://thinlet-contrib.sourceforge.net

  I think we're experiencing a bit of a conflict of interest here. We're
  talking past each other. Steve Gilliam and I are working on setting up
  a community at SourceForge, with an integrated mailing list/forum
  system. We'll primarily be answering ThinletNG questions over there.
  I'm staying subscribed here, of course, I'm interested in the original
  Thinlet's development, but we're sort of trying to create a separate
(Continue reading)

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