headers
robert burrell donkin | 1 Jan 2005 12:36
Picon
Favicon
Gravatar

Re: 3-column jakarta.apache.org?

On 29 Dec 2004, at 20:44, Henri Yandell wrote:

<snip>

> 4) Various parts of Resources struck out. I think this was all covered 
> in previous emails. I think www.apache.org covers these issues now and 
> we don't have to.

FWIW some of the content (and the stuff you moved) is covered. 
unfortunately, there's still a lot that's not and already quite a bit 
of information has been lost when the old wiki was removed.

IMHO if (in the future) these things should be documented at the 
foundation level, it'll be easier in the long run to bite the bullet: 
decide what content is suitable for the new jakarta site and then make 
an effort to move everything else to more appropriate places before 
it's removed.

- robert
Permalink | Reply | 12 comments |
headers
robert burrell donkin | 1 Jan 2005 12:40
Picon
Favicon
Gravatar

Re: 3-column jakarta.apache.org?

On 29 Dec 2004, at 16:10, Henri Yandell wrote:

>
> I'm a fan of the www.apache.org look and how it gives us a lot more 
> usability in terms of available column space. I'd like to change 
> Jakarta to the 3-columns (though not the l&f or anything).
>
> Switching to 3-columns means less space in the center for content, 
> however I also want to simplify the content so I think it will look 
> fine.
>
> Any views?

if we're moving to this format, then i'd suggest getting rid of the 
news section. http://www.apachenews.org/ does this much better than us. 
we're not even getting syndicating on stuff like java.net anymore so 
i'm now really sure it's worth the effort.

- robert
Permalink | Reply | 7 comments |
headers
robert burrell donkin | 1 Jan 2005 12:56
Picon
Favicon
Gravatar

Re: Dormancy worries

On 27 Dec 2004, at 11:35, Torsten Curdt wrote:
> Noel J. Bergman wrote:

<snip>

>> There has been
>> some suggestion that they be cleaned up by migrating them to some 
>> other
>> domain to be mothballed.  The code, web site, and mailing list 
>> archives
>> would be preserved, and could be restored at such time in the future 
>> when a
>> community might arise.
>
> Hmm... the question is whether we really *can* mothballing them.
> IMHO too many projects rely on them. It's an important piece of
> technology. At least bugfixes need to be applied. FWICS migration
> costs (e.g. to asm) are fairly high.
>
> There *are* people that have patches in the queue.

i would like to suggest again something that costin suggested a long 
while ago now: for mature sub-projects we remove the extra layer and 
organize them directly under jakarta. so rather than being run as 
sub-projects with their own separate committer lists, the jakarta 
community runs them directly.

the commons uses an honour system (the committers for the components 
are listed in a STATUS file) which i think would work well in this 
case, with any interested committer being granted karma upon request
(Continue reading)

Permalink | Reply | 4 comments |
headers
Henri Yandell | 1 Jan 2005 12:45

Re: 3-column jakarta.apache.org?


On Sat, 1 Jan 2005, robert burrell donkin wrote:

> On 29 Dec 2004, at 16:10, Henri Yandell wrote:
>
>> 
>> I'm a fan of the www.apache.org look and how it gives us a lot more 
>> usability in terms of available column space. I'd like to change Jakarta to 
>> the 3-columns (though not the l&f or anything).
>> 
>> Switching to 3-columns means less space in the center for content, however 
>> I also want to simplify the content so I think it will look fine.
>> 
>> Any views?
>
> if we're moving to this format, then i'd suggest getting rid of the news 
> section. http://www.apachenews.org/ does this much better than us. we're not 
> even getting syndicating on stuff like java.net anymore so i'm now really 
> sure it's worth the effort.

Even our own release news?

I see us just focusing on our own news; xxx moves to TLP, yyy moves out of 
Commons, 10.4 of Foo released etc.

Hen
Permalink | Reply | 6 comments |
headers
robert burrell donkin | 1 Jan 2005 13:02
Picon
Favicon
Gravatar

Re: Cleaning up Site2

On 28 Dec 2004, at 20:15, Martin Cooper wrote:

> On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 00:35:08 -0500 (EST), Henri Yandell
> <bayard <at> generationjava.com> wrote:

<snip>

>> 6) Less contraversial (as no mention of Jon or idiots): Kill vendors 
>> page?
>> How about legal and acknowledgements? Should these be under the ASF
>> umbrella level now and not Jakarta specific.
>
> If there's stuff that makes sense to move to the main ASF site, then
> we should do that. Other stuff, like perhaps the vendors page, might
> make more sense on the wiki. I'd be leery of moving too much out,
> though, since I suspect a lot of people don't think to look outside
> the Jakarta site for help.

please beware that the energy available to maintain the foundation site 
seems to be even less than for the jakarta site. there is a lot on the 
jakarta site that needs moving upwards or at least replacements 
writing. starting from the jakarta pages would at least provide some 
impetus...

- robert
Permalink | Reply | 0 comments |
headers
Henri Yandell | 1 Jan 2005 12:52

Re: Dormancy worries


On Sat, 1 Jan 2005, robert burrell donkin wrote:

> On 27 Dec 2004, at 11:35, Torsten Curdt wrote:
>> Noel J. Bergman wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>>> There has been
>>> some suggestion that they be cleaned up by migrating them to some other
>>> domain to be mothballed.  The code, web site, and mailing list archives
>>> would be preserved, and could be restored at such time in the future when 
>>> a
>>> community might arise.
>> 
>> Hmm... the question is whether we really *can* mothballing them.
>> IMHO too many projects rely on them. It's an important piece of
>> technology. At least bugfixes need to be applied. FWICS migration
>> costs (e.g. to asm) are fairly high.
>> 
>> There *are* people that have patches in the queue.
>
> i would like to suggest again something that costin suggested a long while 
> ago now: for mature sub-projects we remove the extra layer and organize them 
> directly under jakarta. so rather than being run as sub-projects with their 
> own separate committer lists, the jakarta community runs them directly.

Effectively I'm +1 on that. I think of it as hope that enough of the 
self-contained projects ask to move to TLP and then we promote Commons 
components to sub-project level and make CVS Jakarta-wide.
(Continue reading)

Permalink | Reply | 3 comments |
headers
Henri Yandell | 1 Jan 2005 12:54

Re: 3-column jakarta.apache.org?


On Sat, 1 Jan 2005, robert burrell donkin wrote:

> On 29 Dec 2004, at 20:44, Henri Yandell wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> 4) Various parts of Resources struck out. I think this was all covered in 
>> previous emails. I think www.apache.org covers these issues now and we 
>> don't have to.
>
> FWIW some of the content (and the stuff you moved) is covered. unfortunately, 
> there's still a lot that's not and already quite a bit of information has 
> been lost when the old wiki was removed.

http://wiki.apache.org/old/

Which bits in particular?

On the mock-up I'm suggesting we kill:

Our Mission (Repeat of the front page)
Vendor Support (List of 13 companies - surprised no one is against this
     removal)
Reference Library (This page is just plain wrong, we require no 6
     book reading list. Could move bits to Project Guidelines/CVS page)
Website Maintenance (Wiki? Just the CVS version?)
Apache on the JSPA (Geir will be making a www.apache.org JCP page)
Acknowledgements (Definitely ASF now, no-one supports 'jakarta' as such
     afaik)
(Continue reading)

Permalink | Reply | 8 comments |
headers
robert burrell donkin | 1 Jan 2005 13:14
Picon
Favicon
Gravatar

Re: 3-column jakarta.apache.org?

On 1 Jan 2005, at 11:45, Henri Yandell wrote:
> On Sat, 1 Jan 2005, robert burrell donkin wrote:
>> On 29 Dec 2004, at 16:10, Henri Yandell wrote:
>>
>>> I'm a fan of the www.apache.org look and how it gives us a lot more 
>>> usability in terms of available column space. I'd like to change 
>>> Jakarta to the 3-columns (though not the l&f or anything).
>>> Switching to 3-columns means less space in the center for content, 
>>> however I also want to simplify the content so I think it will look 
>>> fine.
>>> Any views?
>>
>> if we're moving to this format, then i'd suggest getting rid of the 
>> news section. http://www.apachenews.org/ does this much better than 
>> us. we're not even getting syndicating on stuff like java.net anymore 
>> so i'm now really sure it's worth the effort.
>
> Even our own release news?

ditch the whole lot :)

not only is it no longer pleasing to the eye (in those three columns) 
but it also ineffective...

> I see us just focusing on our own news; xxx moves to TLP, yyy moves 
> out of Commons, 10.4 of Foo released etc.

jakarta isn't the important resource it used to be for news. our place 
has been taken. people no longer come to read our news.
(Continue reading)

Permalink | Reply | 5 comments |
headers
robert burrell donkin | 1 Jan 2005 13:31
Picon
Favicon
Gravatar

Re: 3-column jakarta.apache.org?


On 1 Jan 2005, at 11:54, Henri Yandell wrote:

>
>
> On Sat, 1 Jan 2005, robert burrell donkin wrote:
>
>> On 29 Dec 2004, at 20:44, Henri Yandell wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>> 4) Various parts of Resources struck out. I think this was all  
>>> covered in previous emails. I think www.apache.org covers these  
>>> issues now and we don't have to.
>>
>> FWIW some of the content (and the stuff you moved) is covered.  
>> unfortunately, there's still a lot that's not and already quite a bit  
>> of information has been lost when the old wiki was removed.
>
> http://wiki.apache.org/old/
>
> Which bits in particular?

release manager stuff. i need to pull out and reorganize the  
information then submit some patches to infrastructure.

> On the mock-up I'm suggesting we kill:
>
> Our Mission (Repeat of the front page)
> Vendor Support (List of 13 companies - surprised no one is against this
(Continue reading)

Permalink | Reply | 6 comments |
headers
Henri Yandell | 1 Jan 2005 13:18

Re: 3-column jakarta.apache.org?


On Sat, 1 Jan 2005, robert burrell donkin wrote:

> On 1 Jan 2005, at 11:45, Henri Yandell wrote:
>> On Sat, 1 Jan 2005, robert burrell donkin wrote:
>>> On 29 Dec 2004, at 16:10, Henri Yandell wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I'm a fan of the www.apache.org look and how it gives us a lot more 
>>>> usability in terms of available column space. I'd like to change Jakarta 
>>>> to the 3-columns (though not the l&f or anything).
>>>> Switching to 3-columns means less space in the center for content, 
>>>> however I also want to simplify the content so I think it will look fine.
>>>> Any views?
>>> 
>>> if we're moving to this format, then i'd suggest getting rid of the news 
>>> section. http://www.apachenews.org/ does this much better than us. we're 
>>> not even getting syndicating on stuff like java.net anymore so i'm now 
>>> really sure it's worth the effort.
>> 
>> Even our own release news?
>
> ditch the whole lot :)
>
> not only is it no longer pleasing to the eye (in those three columns) but it 
> also ineffective...
>
>> I see us just focusing on our own news; xxx moves to TLP, yyy moves out of 
>> Commons, 10.4 of Foo released etc.
>
> jakarta isn't the important resource it used to be for news. our place has
(Continue reading)

Permalink | Reply | 4 comments |

Gmane