Viktor Kovács | 18 Jul 19:56 2015

UNICODE 8.0 and the Old Hungarian script

Hungarian keyboard layouts defined as for monodirectional left to right writing language. Now, in the UNICODE 8.0 standard, Central European section is accepted Old Hungarian right to left fonts. When Hungary was the one of the countries of the  "Eastern block", in Hungary was not allowed widely use the Old Hungarian script, called "Rovásírás". There are a lots of e-books on the Hungarian national library's homepage (Országos Széchenyi Könyvtár -http:\\ ) written with "Pre-Released" Old Hungarian font but it uncompatible with Unicode standards, and have conflicts with the most of e-book hardwares. The main problem, that the our Traditional script named Old Hungarian does not go throw all standardization steps in the full electrical acceptation. There is another poblem, that writing Hungarian text with Old (traditional) Hungarian script or latin Hungarian script is the same by that point, that the language, the country and the cultury is the same! So the our layout  should be changed to bidi layout, if it possible.
We don't know, on wich way will be widely accepted by opsysem and other software developers.

Kovács Viktor (name written by Hungarian name order)

bidi mailing list
bidi <at>
Tommy Lee | 23 Aug 08:15 2007

NUMBER ONE Success System

The deed of trust is a deed by the borrower to a trustee for the purposes of securing a debt. In most states, it also merely creates a lien on the title and not a title transfer, regardless of its terms. It differs from a mortgage in that, in many states, it can be foreclosed by a non-judicial sale held by the trustee. It is also possible to foreclose them through a judicial proceeding. [citation needed]

Most "mortgages" in California are actually deeds of trust. The effective difference is that the foreclosure process can be much faster for a deed of trust than for a mortgage, on the order of 3 months rather than a year. Because the foreclosure does not require actions by the court the transaction costs can be quite a bit less.[citation needed ]

Deeds of trust to secure repayments of debts should not be confused with trust instruments that are sometimes called deeds of trust but that are used to create trusts for other purposes, such as estate planning. Though there are superficial similarities in the form, many states hold deeds of trust to secure repayment of debts do not create true trust arrangements.

Within each field, a business may specialize in a particular type of real estate, such as residential, commercial, or industrial property. In addition, almost all construction business effectively has a connection to real estate.

"Internet Real Estate" is a term coined by the internet investment community relating to the parallel that exists between high quality internet domain names and real-world, prime real estate. Many internet companies actually use the address of properties as domain names.

bidi mailing list
bidi <at>
Behnam Esfahbod | 4 Jun 20:58 2005

BidiAssist - 0.91 - beta

Hi list,

Here are Bidirectional Assistant, a plugin for gedit helps users to 
manage their bidirectional texts (plain-texts) easier.


- Paragraph Direction
   * Left to Right
   * Right to Left
   * Clear

- Embed Text
   * Left to Right
   * Right to Left

- Override Text
   * Left to Right
   * Right to Left

- Clear Bidirectional Characters



Plugin files: 


You can just copy plugin files to ~/.gedit-2/plugins/ or 
/usr/lib/gedit-2/plugins/ .

Also you can run this bash-script to do all for you:
$ mkdir -p ~/.gedit-2/plugins ; wget --cache=no 
-O - | tar -jx -C ~/.gedit-2/plugins/

Note that it requires GTK+ >= 1-2 (GNOME >= 2.10).  Don't forget to 
enable the plugin from Edit > Preferences > Plugins! ;)

Feedbacks are welcomed, bye.

     '     Behnam Esfahbod
   *  ..
  *  `  *
   * o *
Munzir Taha | 25 May 07:44 2005

RTL support in Qt

Hi Sirs,
I have already began an effort to support RTL languages in the upcoming Qt4 by 
sending bug reports against it's latest snapshots. You can find the updated 
list bugs at
I will be happy if people on this list can share their opinion, especially 
that I need your confirmation that these same issues apply also to other RTL 
languages besides Arabic.

I have some questions, for example, In Arabic if I set the format to be 
dd.MM.yyyy with the date 01/01/2000, I want this string to be displayed 
2000/01/01, do you agree? Do this also apply to persian and other RTL 
languages? Do this work now on GTK+?

Any other suggestions?


Munzir Taha  PGP Key available
gpg --recv-keys --keyserver F0671821

Telecommunications and Electronics Engineer
Maintainer of Fedora Arabic Translation Project
Maintainer of the OpenBugs project page at
Master CIW Designer, ICDL, MOUS, Linux+, LPI 101
New Horizons CLC, Riyadh, SA
Behdad Esfahbod | 1 Apr 08:33 2005

Homepage is back

Hi everybody,

Thanks to Keith Packard and Daniel Stone, is
working again.  If you have some spare time, please consider
creating a profile and editing.

Behdad Esfahbod | 19 Mar 00:39 2005

Re: Automatic text direction (fwd)


---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 19:26:39 -0500 (EST)
From: Behdad Esfahbod <behdad <at>>
To: E L <nakeee <at>>
Cc: bidi <at>
Subject: Re: [Bidi] Automatic text direction

[Ely, seems like you forgot CCing to list.  Doing that in reply.]

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005, E L wrote:

> > * Unicode Bidirectional Algorithm (UBA from now on on this list),
> >   for paragraphs of plain text.  This is already implemented in
> >   GNU FriBidi and used by Pango, in the GNOME stack, for example.
> Does kde use the same algo?openoffice?java?

Yes, they all do that.  UBA is the only piece of the game
accepted by everybody, since it's a part of the Unicode standard.
But well, the Unicode Character Database used in different stacks
is pretty different I guess.

> > * Some low-level markup is defined for better bidi override, etc,
> >   like the unicode-bidi property in CSS for example.  In the GNOME
> >   stack this goes inside Pango.  We don't have it yet.  Got to
> >   design.  Dov brought the issue up some time ago on this list
> >   IIRC.  This should solve the GAIM problem above.
> It's not only markups which are the problem, it's also in gaim or irc where
> your nick is in english and you talk hebrew or arabic.

The gaim and irc messages are not plain text again.  When we have
the bidi markup defined and implemented, in Pango say, then gaim
simply surrounds the nick by some markup saying this part should
be ignored when determining paragraph direction.  It's kinda a
paragraph embedding markup.  Dov posted a proposal about that
some time ago, he was proposing addition of such a character to
the Unicode standard, but I believe we should deprecate the
stateful Unicode bidi format characters in user text, and instead
define our bidi markup.  The Unicode format characters can be
used in the underlying implementation of the bidi markup though,
hence that's not enouhg and special handling (like skip this part
when determining paragraph direction) is needed.

> > * The algorithm implemented by Dov in GNOME, with some
> >   refinements, for determining direction of paragraphs in a plain
> >   text document.  This works pretty good most of them.  Some
> >   people say it makes them less productive, but almost all
> >   examples they give is of markup languages, not plain text.
> almost but I just gave 2 which are not :)

If we have a makrup for bidi formatting, it's all a matter of
adding markup in the right applications.  Quite like what you can
do in HTML/CSS, but more powerful.

> There are 2 ways to do it one would be manual override which should
> be done anyhow cause you can't cache all cases no matter what.
> The other would be to provide ability to ignore the first few words
> like check from the second word on or so.


> > * Seems like we need a layer here to allow manually override
> >   paragraph directions, etc...
> Yea

Ok, do you think we should start an fd.o spec stub and go on by
filling in, seems like we have a big picture and lots of ideas.
Or we still need to go on the list and perhaps gather consensus
on Wiki before doing that?

> > * For non-plain text, like markup languages (XML, HTML, ...), and
> >   programming languages (C, Python, JavaScript, ...), we
> >   standardize the data that a highlighting engine can use for
> >   proper rendering.  See my comment in this feature request on
> >   gtksourceview for details:
> >
> >
> Sounds good:)
> > I believe if we get to implement these all, we're almost there.
> > Remains exotic things like LaTeX source, etc, that cannot be
> > reaaly handled anyway in an editor.
> ARRMMM:) I wouldn't say that, there are more than a few projects on making
> latex have good bidi support, Im sure we can figure something out.

What I've ment is that you cannot easily determine paragraph
direction from the LaTeX source, unless you are LaTeX itself.
But for specific bidi LaTeX implementations (like ivritex, or
ArabTeX, or FarsiTeX, or Fanoos, ...), sure, the same
highlighting technique applies to some level.

Ely Levy | 28 Feb 10:54 2005

Automatic text direction

I think we should create a standard for automatic text direction.
There are few issues on how to detect the text direction (RTL or LTR)
for example numbers should not be the setter of direction, the ability
to manual override, split text ( for example gaim nick in english line is
in hebrew or arabic what should be the text direction?should it be splited
nick from one side text from the other? should it ignore the nick and
detect it by the text?)
What about html text?how do we ignore tags as direction setters?

the big question, can a good autodetect actually be done? or should we
give up on it and do maunal setting only?

Ely Levy
System group
Hebrew University
Jerusalem Israel
Behdad Esfahbod | 3 Nov 21:29 2004

Re: math in arabic -- w3c mathml group looking for contributions (fwd)



---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 14:53:09 -0500
From: Asmus Freytag <asmusf <at>>
To: bidi <at>
Cc: Robert Miner <RobertM <at>>
Subject: [bidi] Re: math in arabic -- w3c mathml group looking for


I got this message recently that may be of interest to members of this
group. To follwo up, please contact Robert as needed.


>Hello All.
>One area where MathML is lacking is a specification of how it should
>be used in right-to-left languages, particularly Arabic.
>This issue came up during the work on MathML 2.0, and resulted in the
>addition of section 3.1.5.  This section says that the Unicode
>bidirectional algorithm should be followed for the text within token
>elements, but that MathML 2.0 doesn't address the general question of
>right-to-left layout.  The reason for that was simply that, the Math
>Working Group was unable to find enough examples and/or experts in the
>time available to be confident an attempt to describe how MathML
>should work in right-to-left text would get it right.
>Since then, however, a several groups have looked at using MathML in
>Arabic, and a number more have expressed interest in being able to do
>so.  Consequently, the current Math Interest Group believes the time
>is ripe to start a public discussion of the issue, with the goals of:
>1) Involving enough people from right-to-left language communities,
>    particularly Arabic-speaking, to be able to make an authoritative
>    statement about how math should be handled.
>2) Assuming 1 can be done, compiling an authoritative statement of
>    the rules of right-to-left math typesetting, and specifically how
>    MathML should be used for right-to-left mathematics.
>3) Assuming 1 and 2 can be accomplished, preparing a document with
>    official status to disseminate the result of 1 and 2 such as a W3C
>    Note, or perhaps a new version of MathML at some point.
>To get things started, I invite anyone with expert knowledge of math
>in Arabic or other right-to-left languages to post a brief
>introductory message.  Pointers to examples, articles, projects or
>other useful background information would be especially welcome.  If
>you aren't yourself an expert, but know someone who is, please draw
>their attention to this discussion.
>Dr. Robert Miner                                RobertM <at>
>W3C Math Interest Group Co-Chair                      651-223-2883
>Design Science, Inc.   "How Science Communicates"
Behdad Esfahbod | 19 Sep 02:00 2004

BiDi Mail UI Mozilla Extension - Released (fwd)

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 17:23:51 -0400
From: Eyal Rozenberg <eyalroz <at>>

As mentioned in a post a few weeks back, we have been working on a
Mozilla Mail&News / Thunderbird extension for direction control. We have
now released the first public version of this extension, named 'BiDi
Mail UI'.

The extension website is

Since the previous post many bugs have been fixed, some functionality
added, and Arabic locale has also been incorporated, thanks to the
efforts of Ayman Hourieh.

You are all welcome to try it and give feedback.

Eyal Rozenberg & Asaf Romano
Behnam Esfahbod | 20 Aug 12:32 2004

Internationalized Resource Identifires (IRI)

Hi list,

You may be interested in bidi-related issues in this page:


     '     Behnam Esfahbod
   *  ..
  *  `  *
   * o *
Behdad Esfahbod | 19 Aug 14:47 2004

Project page

Hi bidiers,

I just dumped a few related links at our project page at:

I will go over and write a couple of lines for each of them
later.  Send me your links, comments, etc, or just subscribe to
the wiki and send me your username to set up the
write access.

I've also purchased the domain and will set it up later


PS.  Seems like Dov Grobgeld is found again, with a little change
of address :-).