Deborah Taylor-Pearce | 1 May 2010 01:39
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Re: Hermathena and Cicero

Conrad,

> The "Gallic Hercules" would
> appear to be the deity Ogmios?
> I believe there is a depiction
> in which the chains run from
> the deity's tongue to the ears
> of those thus being led about.

Yes, that's the one.

Probably the most famous illustration of this appeared in Alciato's 
_Emblematum liber_ (1st unauthorized edition in 1531; 1st authorized 
edition in 1534), for which, see

http://www.mun.ca/alciato/e181.html

(As always, I like Bocchi's version better.)

At any rate, Alciato taught law (from 1538 to 1541) in the same 
academy at Bologna where Bocchi taught rhetoric, and his popular book 
of emblems inspired Bocchi's book of Symbolic Questions.

> I cannot turn up anything
> in a Google search for
> Hermathena other than a
> journal published from
> Trinity College Dublin, and
> a South American butterfly,
> so any further info (perhaps
(Continue reading)

Conrad Taylor | 1 May 2010 11:13

Re: Hermathena and Cicero

On 1 May 2010, at 00:39, Deborah Taylor-Pearce wrote:
> Also, I have a question of my own which perhaps you (or other Café
> denizens) can answer: a letter from Pope Julius III in 1555 gave
> Bocchi and his heirs a 15-year license for printing and selling his
> _Symbolicae Quaestiones_,
>
> 	"along with the pope's promise of two hundred golden ducats
> 	from Apostolic coffers and words of praise for the book ...
> 	'with its very beautiful bronze engravings,  .....  '".
>
> Presumably, the pope was correct in his description of the book's
> "bronze engravings", in which case, why do historians studying
> Bocchi's graphic art continue to discuss "... the cutting of all the
> copperplates"?
>
> Is copperplate a catch-all term for any kind of metal engraving for
> the print trade?

Ah, I would not leap to the same conclusion of papal infallibility.
I think he was mistaken, and the artist had followed the standard
practice of his day in engraving onto plates of polished copper.

The very characteristics which made bronze preferred over
copper for weapons -- its hard, brittle character once it is cast --
would be quite a liability both when when trying to beat or roll out
a malleable flat plate for engraving, and then when trying to cut a
uniform line on the surface of that plate.

Precisely what one means by "bronze" is disputable, because
the word bronze is used to describe many alloys of copper:
(Continue reading)

Conrad Taylor | 1 May 2010 11:17

Re: Death by Powerpoint (literally)

Aha, Weapons of Mass Confusion.
Thanks for that, Randal!

Conrad


On 30 Apr 2010, at 23:49, Randal wrote:

Somewhat cogent article on how Powerpoint makes us stupid:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/27/world/27powerpoint.html

The most interesting thing to me was this:

"Last year when a military Web site, Company Command, asked an Army platoon leader in Iraq, Lt. Sam Nuxoll, how he spent most of his time, he responded, “Making PowerPoint slides.” When pressed, he said he was serious. "

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Deborah Taylor-Pearce | 3 May 2010 05:54
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Re: Hermathena and Cicero

Conrad,

> Ah, I would not leap to
> the same conclusion of
> papal infallibility. I
> think he was mistaken,
> and the artist had
> followed the standard
> practice of his day in
> engraving onto plates of
> polished copper.

Many thanks for the detailed explanation.

FWIW, here's what Julius III actually wrote in 1555:

	"cum suis affigurationibus pulcherrimis in aes incisis, opus
	sane non iocunditate solum, & utilitate, sed dignitate etiam
	maxima commendatissimum, unde studiosi omnes bonarum, &
	honestarum artium uberrimos, & suauissimos fructus percipere
	ualeant"

which Elizabeth See Watson (_Achille Bocchi and the Emblem Book as 
Symbolic Form_) Englished as:

	"with its very beautiful bronze engravings, a work that is to
	be praised not only for its jocundity and utility but also
	for its great value, a work from which all students of the
	fine and honorable arts may gather fruits quite rich and
	delightful)."

That's where I got the "bronze engravings" from.

Thanks again,
Deborah
_____

Deborah Taylor-Pearce
dtp <at> she-philosopher.com

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David Farbey | 4 May 2010 10:19

Re: Death by Powerpoint (literally)

I've been inspired to comment on this on my blog:
http://www.farbey.co.uk/index.php/2010/05/lies-death-and-powerpoint/

David

On 1 May 2010 10:17, Conrad Taylor <conradtaylor <at> me.com> wrote:
> Aha, Weapons of Mass Confusion.
> Thanks for that, Randal!
> Conrad
>
> On 30 Apr 2010, at 23:49, Randal wrote:
>
> Somewhat cogent article on how Powerpoint makes us stupid:
> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/27/world/27powerpoint.html
> The most interesting thing to me was this:
> "Last year when a military Web site, Company Command, asked an Army platoon
> leader in Iraq, Lt. Sam Nuxoll, how he spent most of his time, he responded,
> “Making PowerPoint slides.” When pressed, he said he was serious. "
>
> ___________________________________________________________________
>
> Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers:
>  infodesign-cafe <at> list.informationdesign.org
>
> To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit:
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>
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>
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> ___________________________________________________________________
>
>

-- 
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Mobile  07879 005 946
Web site/Blog <http://www.farbey.co.uk>
Twitter <http://twitter.com/dfarb>
LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/in/informationdesign>

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Re: Death by Powerpoint (literally)

Colleagues,

Among other academics, Professor Farkas has carried out an important study on PowerPoint issues
(and benefits):

http://faculty.washington.edu/farkas/TC510/Farkas-STC-05-UnderstandingPowerPoint.pdf
http://faculty.washington.edu/farkas/FarkasTowardUnderstandingPPT.pdf

The Techcom has also published papers about it:

Common Use of PowerPoint versus the Assertion-Evidence Structure:
pp. 331-345(15)
Authors: Garner, Joanna K.; Alley, Michael; Gaudelli, Allen F.; Zappe, Sarah E.

Challenging the Common Practice of PowerPoint at an Institution:
pp. 346-360(15)
Authors: Neeley, Kathryn A.; Alley, Michael; Nicometo, Christine G.; Srajek, Leslie C.


José.



On 4 May 2010 05:19, David Farbey <david.farbey <at> googlemail.com> wrote:
I've been inspired to comment on this on my blog:
http://www.farbey.co.uk/index.php/2010/05/lies-death-and-powerpoint/

David

On 1 May 2010 10:17, Conrad Taylor <conradtaylor <at> me.com> wrote:
> Aha, Weapons of Mass Confusion.
> Thanks for that, Randal!
> Conrad
>
> On 30 Apr 2010, at 23:49, Randal wrote:
>
> Somewhat cogent article on how Powerpoint makes us stupid:
> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/27/world/27powerpoint.html
> The most interesting thing to me was this:
> "Last year when a military Web site, Company Command, asked an Army platoon
> leader in Iraq, Lt. Sam Nuxoll, how he spent most of his time, he responded,
> “Making PowerPoint slides.” When pressed, he said he was serious. "
>
> ___________________________________________________________________
>
> Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers:
>  infodesign-cafe <at> list.informationdesign.org
>
> To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit:
>  http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe
>
> For all Information Design matters:
>  http://InformationDesign.org
>
> Problems? Write to:
>  InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin <at> list.InformationDesign.org
> ___________________________________________________________________
>
>



--
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Mobile  07879 005 946
Web site/Blog <http://www.farbey.co.uk>
Twitter <http://twitter.com/dfarb>
LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/in/informationdesign>

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--
José Marconi Bezerra de Souza
Visiting lecturer of Paraná Federal University, Brazil
PhD - Department of Typography & Graphic Communication, The University of Reading (UK)
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Randal | 4 May 2010 15:15
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Re: Death by Powerpoint (literally)

I would complain about the logic in your article about Powerpoint. You  
fall into a trap set by the New York Times in that your central  
complaint appears to be about the "Spaghetti Graphic" about the war in  
Afghanistan. As the Times noted, the purpose of this was "meant to  
portray the complexity of American military strategy". Whether the  
content is meaningless or not, that is precisely what it does.

It seems to me that one of the central problems about Powerpoint is  
that unlike good and clear writing, which develops ideas and derives  
conclusions, the basic nature of the "Bullet Point" is that is  
presents every statement as a foregone conclusion or accepted fact. It  
therefore allow blatant lies to be presented with the same weight as  
universally accepted truths. This fundamentally devalues reasoning and  
logic in an argument, and replaces it with mere summation and statement.

It seems to me that the popularity of Powerpoint stems from the fact  
that it allows people who can't really write or reason to create what  
looks like (to the lazy or ignorant) an interesting or persuasive  
argument.

I further very much disagree with the statement that presentation  
should simply recapitulate the messages from the presentation, and  
"should be almost meaningless". Luckily, in my life I have been called  
upon to make very few Powerpoint presentations, but as a teacher at a  
design college I have very often given slide lectures, which I  
consider to be a very effective teaching tool. In those cases, as in  
the few really effective (and affective) Powerpoint-type presentations  
I have seen, the images and slides have been central and memorable,  
and the talking that goes on around them is at best explanatory and  
incidental. One good image, or one good graph with important  
statistics, is much more persuasive than a thousand eloquently stated  
beliefs.

-- Randal

On May 4, 2010, at 1:49 PM, David Farbey wrote:

> I've been inspired to comment on this on my blog:
> http://www.farbey.co.uk/index.php/2010/05/lies-death-and-powerpoint/
>
> David
>
> On 1 May 2010 10:17, Conrad Taylor <conradtaylor <at> me.com> wrote:
>> Aha, Weapons of Mass Confusion.
>> Thanks for that, Randal!
>> Conrad
>>
>> On 30 Apr 2010, at 23:49, Randal wrote:
>>
>> Somewhat cogent article on how Powerpoint makes us stupid:
>> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/27/world/27powerpoint.html
>> The most interesting thing to me was this:
>> "Last year when a military Web site, Company Command, asked an Army  
>> platoon
>> leader in Iraq, Lt. Sam Nuxoll, how he spent most of his time, he  
>> responded,
>> “Making PowerPoint slides.” When pressed, he said he was serious. "
>>
>> ___________________________________________________________________
>>
>> Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers:
>>  infodesign-cafe <at> list.informationdesign.org
>>
>> To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit:
>>  http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe
>>
>> For all Information Design matters:
>>  http://InformationDesign.org
>>
>> Problems? Write to:
>>  InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin <at> list.InformationDesign.org
>> ___________________________________________________________________
>>
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> David Farbey - david <at> farbey.co.uk
> Mobile  07879 005 946
> Web site/Blog <http://www.farbey.co.uk>
> Twitter <http://twitter.com/dfarb>
> LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/in/informationdesign>
>
> ___________________________________________________________________
>
> Use the following address to post a message to all subscribers:
> infodesign-cafe <at> list.informationdesign.org
>
> To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your options, visit:
> http://list.InformationDesign.org/mailman/listinfo/infodesign-cafe
>
> For all Information Design matters:
> http://InformationDesign.org
>
> Problems? Write to:
> InfoDesign-Cafe-Admin <at> list.InformationDesign.org
> ___________________________________________________________________

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Rob Waller | 4 May 2010 17:47
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Re: Death by Powerpoint (literally)

In defence of Powerpoint, perhaps the contrarian view in this list...

- on one hand, there's nothing more deadly than someone reading off a load of bullet points, word for word
- but on the other hand something like this doesn't catch on unless it fills a need, and we should hesitate before assuming people are lazy or worse for using it (tone of that sounds a little more flamey than intended :-)
- it's not always displacing a longer reasoned argument (which takes hours to write). More often it's the alternative to a spontaneous, unscripted verbal performance, which goes unrecorded, can easily go wrong, and which not everyone is confident enough to attempt.
- I've found Powerpoint particularly useful when speaking to people whose first language is not my own, and for following presentations in another language, when I have only a school-level reading knowledge of it.
- it's also good for people who weren't at the meeting... when I've given presentations without slides, or with purely visual ones used as punctuation or as talking points, I end up producing bullet point versions to distribute later.
- is there some contradiction between the view that Powerpoint "fundamentally devalues reasoning and logic in an argument, and replaces it with mere summation and statement" and the idea that "one good image, or one good graph with important statistics, is much more persuasive"?
- Powerpoint is easily mocked with the Gettysburg address or Churchill's speeches in bullet point form, but oratory uses similar techniques to make itself easily grasped and memorable: rhythm, alliteration, etc. 

I think seven bullets is enough... sorry about the blatant lies.

Rob

__________________________________

Rob Waller

Department of Typography & Graphic Communication
University of Reading
T +44 (0) 118 378 6411
M +44 (0) 7850 665933



On 4 May 2010, at 14:15, Randal wrote:

I would complain about the logic in your article about Powerpoint. You  
fall into a trap set by the New York Times in that your central  
complaint appears to be about the "Spaghetti Graphic" about the war in  
Afghanistan. As the Times noted, the purpose of this was "meant to  
portray the complexity of American military strategy". Whether the  
content is meaningless or not, that is precisely what it does.

It seems to me that one of the central problems about Powerpoint is  
that unlike good and clear writing, which develops ideas and derives  
conclusions, the basic nature of the "Bullet Point" is that is  
presents every statement as a foregone conclusion or accepted fact. It  
therefore allow blatant lies to be presented with the same weight as  
universally accepted truths. This fundamentally devalues reasoning and  
logic in an argument, and replaces it with mere summation and statement.

It seems to me that the popularity of Powerpoint stems from the fact  
that it allows people who can't really write or reason to create what  
looks like (to the lazy or ignorant) an interesting or persuasive  
argument.

I further very much disagree with the statement that presentation  
should simply recapitulate the messages from the presentation, and  
"should be almost meaningless". Luckily, in my life I have been called  
upon to make very few Powerpoint presentations, but as a teacher at a  
design college I have very often given slide lectures, which I  
consider to be a very effective teaching tool. In those cases, as in  
the few really effective (and affective) Powerpoint-type presentations  
I have seen, the images and slides have been central and memorable,  
and the talking that goes on around them is at best explanatory and  
incidental. One good image, or one good graph with important  
statistics, is much more persuasive than a thousand eloquently stated  
beliefs.

-- Randal


On May 4, 2010, at 1:49 PM, David Farbey wrote:

I've been inspired to comment on this on my blog:
http://www.farbey.co.uk/index.php/2010/05/lies-death-and-powerpoint/

David

On 1 May 2010 10:17, Conrad Taylor <conradtaylor <at> me.com> wrote:
Aha, Weapons of Mass Confusion.
Thanks for that, Randal!
Conrad

On 30 Apr 2010, at 23:49, Randal wrote:

Somewhat cogent article on how Powerpoint makes us stupid:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/27/world/27powerpoint.html
The most interesting thing to me was this:
"Last year when a military Web site, Company Command, asked an Army  
platoon
leader in Iraq, Lt. Sam Nuxoll, how he spent most of his time, he  
responded,
“Making PowerPoint slides.” When pressed, he said he was serious. "

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Deborah Taylor-Pearce | 4 May 2010 23:40
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Re: Hermathena and Cicero

Conrad,

> Ah, I would not leap to the
> same conclusion of papal
> infallibility. I think he was
> mistaken, and the artist had
> followed the standard practice
> of his day in engraving onto
> plates of polished copper.

Thinking some more about this, I checked with 2 other experts in my 
circle (Tony Campbell, who knows a great deal about antique maps and 
the plates used to produce them + Hendrik Vervliet, an expert in 
physical bibliography and Renaissance texts, who's recently been 
trying to teach me the basics of his challenging field, with only 
partial success, I fear ;-) and neither of them know anything about 
"bronze engravings" either.

Tony's never (knowingly) encountered these used for maps

	"The handy guide by Antony Griffiths, head of Prints in the
	British Museum, 'Prints and Printmaking', doesn't include
	bronze in his glossary.  Though he might have included it in
	his summary text.

	"I'm sure there are more thorough studies that would throw
	light on that, but it's not something I have ever (knowingly)
	encountered with maps."

and Hendrik (who has asked me for more scholarly minutiae on 1555 
issues and editions because, as another scholar has observed, "no two 
copies of a Renaissance printed book ever appear to be completely 
identical", and the several variants of Bocchi's _Symbolicae 
Quaestiones_ are even more random than most!) agrees with you that 
Julius III was probably mistaken.

So, with all 3 of you in agreement on this, and no evidence of bronze 
engravings -- whether prints, maps, or in books -- to be had anywhere 
that we know of, I'm more than happy to accept your argument that 
Julius III was mistaken/confused in his metals.

Again, a hearty thanks for your insights and help with this! <vbg>

Deborah
_____

Deborah Taylor-Pearce
dtp <at> she-philosopher.com

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Deborah Taylor-Pearce | 5 May 2010 06:03
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Re: Hermathena and Cicero

Conrad,

Well, it turns out that Pope Julius III was not the only one to 
mention Bocchi's "bronze engravings".

Looking again through Elizabeth See Watson's _Achille Bocchi and the 
Emblem Book as Symbolic Form_, I found this:

	"When did Bocchi conceive of illustrated poems as *symbola*?
	Friends outside Bologna received samples of the symbols well
	before their publication. In his 1554 _I Romanzi_, Giovanni
	Battista Pigna paid tribute to Bocchi's academy and
	especially to the Palazzo Bocchi: 'Quegli vna fabrica va
	edificando tanto ben compartita, che potrebbe essere da lui
	posta tra suoi Simboli per l'essempio d'una perfetta
	Academia' (That man is building a structure so well arranged
	that it could be placed by him among his symbols as the
	example of a perfect academy). Pigna appears to have been
	admiring a copy of the 1545 print of the Palazzo Bocchi,
	although he may have visited the academy in Bologna as well.
	Engraved copies of symbols, perhaps accompanied by a print of
	the palazzo, were alluded to even earlier by Lilio Gregorio
	Giraldi (1479-1552) in his _De Poetis svorvm temporvm
	Dialogvs_, which was written between 1548 and 1551. In the
	second dialogue, Bocchi's friend Bartolomeo Ricci speaks as
	interlocutor:
	
	"'Quae cum dixissem, sermon em secutus Riccius de poetis,
	Achilles, inquit, Bocchius eques Bononiensis in hoc genere
	laudis & caeterarum optimarum artium non mediocrem honorem
	sibi comparavit, qui in omni hac pene facultate praeclara
	documenta dedit superioribus annis, & nunc publice in patria
	honeste profitendo, & eius historias conscribendo, simulque
	magnificas aedes construens, sibi & Musis symbola conficit,
	ex variis cum philosophiae sententiis, tum historiis &
	fabulis, quae vario carminum genere exponit, & elegantissime
	graphide compingi facit subtilissime in aere adeo, ut his
	symbolis illa tria conficiat, quae bonus poeta & orator
	efficere debet, hoc est, ut prosit, ut delectet, & in
	utramque partem moveat.'

	"(And after I had said this, Ricci took up the discussion of
	poets and added, 'Achille Bocchi, nobleman of Bologna, has
	gained no little recognition in this genre of praise and of
	other of the fine arts. In his later years, he has given us
	outstanding works in nearly every faculty of knowledge. He
	has taught in public and with distinction in his homeland,
	has written a history, and is likewise building a magnificent
	edifice. And now he has composed a book of symbols for
	himself and for the Muses, drawing from varied sources not
	only the ideas of philosophy but also historical accounts and
	myths, which he sets forth in various poetic forms. He has
	had this book of symbols illustrated so elegantly and
	precisely with bronze engravings that by these symbols he has
	reached the three goals for which every good poet and orator
	ought to strive, namely, that his work may be useful, that it
	may give delight, and it may move the readers now to
	happiness, now to sadness.')"

Perhaps it was commonplace to refer to bronze rather than copper when 
writing in Latin during C16? The words for this are quite similar, 
even if the metals are not.

William Whittaker's online Latin dictionary at page

http://www.archives.nd.edu/cgi-bin/wordes.exe?copper

gives the following Latin translations for the English COPPER:

---------------------------
aes, aeris  N (3rd) N     3 2  N   [XXXAO]
money, pay, fee, fare; copper/bronze/brass, base metal; (w/alienum) 
debt; gong;

assis, assis  N (3rd) M     3 3  M   [XLXAO]
penny, copper coin; a pound; one, whole; circular flap/valve; round slice;

as, assis  N (3rd) M     3 3  M   [XLXAO]
penny, copper coin; a pound; one, whole, unit; circular flap/valve; 
round slice;

aenus, aena, aenum  ADJ    [XXXCO]
copper, of copper (alloy); bronze, made of bronze, bronze-colored; brazen;

aeneus, aenea, aeneum  ADJ    [XXXCO]
copper, of copper (alloy); bronze, made of bronze, bronze-colored; brazen;

ahenus, ahena, ahenum  ADJ    [XXXCO]
copper, of copper (alloy); bronze, made of bronze, bronze-colored; brazen;
---------------------------

and returns at page

http://www.archives.nd.edu/cgi-bin/wordes.exe?bronze

similar, but slightly different, translations for BRONZE:

---------------------------
aes, aeris  N (3rd) N     3 2  N   [XXXAO]
money, pay, fee, fare; copper/bronze/brass, base metal; (w/alienum) 
debt; gong;

aheneus, ahenea, aheneum  ADJ    [XXXCO]
copper, of copper; bronze, made of bronze;

ahenus, ahena, ahenum  ADJ    [XXXCO]
copper, of copper (alloy); bronze, made of bronze, bronze-colored; brazen;

aeneus, aenea, aeneum  ADJ    [XXXCO]
copper, of copper (alloy); bronze, made of bronze, bronze-colored; brazen;

aenus, aena, aenum  ADJ    [XXXCO]
copper, of copper (alloy); bronze, made of bronze, bronze-colored; brazen;

aereus, aerea, aereum  ADJ    [XXXCO]
made of/bound with/armored with/of the color of copper/bronze/brass;
---------------------------

I should have known that this would not resolve so easily. ;-)

It never does!

I have another colleague in my circle who's very good at Latin -- as 
it was written/spoken in Europe from the medieval period through C18 
-- and shall ask his opinion next.

Deborah
_____

Deborah Taylor-Pearce
dtp <at> she-philosopher.com

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Gmane