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DunbarX | 1 May 2009 01:11
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Re: Dumb Newbie Questions -- 1 of N

I am comparing simple operations on identical 11,000 card stacks in both HC 
and rev. I am using a 450 Mhz G4 for HC, OS 9.1, and a 2GHz G5 for rev, OS 
10,4.

Not so different, really, and I am giving HC a 6X handicap for the 
hardware. Just a guess.

HC runs about 2.5 times faster with simple operations, like putting a 
random number in a field on each card. HC sorts about 8X faster. HC finds MUCH 
faster, no surprise, especially when noticing if there is nothing to find.

So maybe not so bad, at least with 11,000 cards.

Craig Newman

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Scott Morrow | 1 May 2009 01:38
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Re: Dumb Newbie Questions -- 1 of N

Hello Judy,

> <snip>    There has to be some threshold at which Mark's approach  
> makes sense and underneath that it simply doesn't matter.  What is  
> that threshold and why does it matter at that point? </snip>

I agree. However,  trying to define that threshold isn't probably ever  
going to be satisfying. I think this is one of those instructional  
difficulties that is hard to nail down outside of generalities and  
theory.   Using custom props to store data is usually not one of the  
concepts I would expect most folks new to Revolution to pick up early  
on.  Learning to store data in fields on cards is probably a simpler,  
more concrete and logical-next-step method that allows seemingly good  
results with the least effort.  (When I teach my 8 and 9 year old  
students to use the random function to pick a line of text,  I have  
them count the lines and hard code a digit rather than having them use  
< the number of lines of field "blah" >  I've tried both and the digit  
is more understandable and works best for their needs.) In my case...  
even though I understood all the mechanics necessary to store data in  
custom props rather than card-based storage in fields, and I'd heard  
Richard Gaskin talk about it at two RevCons,  it wasn't until the card- 
based solution began failing my needs that I began to REALLY  
understand and start to change my way of looking at that part of  
design.  (Oh... that's what he meant...<light bulb flickers> )  I  
believe Judy is right about some people needing to use card-based  
storage. (especially those from a HyperCard background)  The point at  
which many of us are ready to learn another way is dependent on prior  
knowledge.  Why do I need another way? Until my prior knowledge  
included experience with and understanding of particular difficulties  
(the NEED to separate data from layout) I wasn't REALLY ready to learn
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Josh Mellicker | 1 May 2009 01:45
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property inspector poll

Just wondering, what you folks use for a property inspector nowadays?

I remember a while back when a version of Galaxy had the ability to  
display all properties of two objects at once, and you could set a  
property of one object to the value of the other object with one  
click- that was awesome!

Is there a currently available property inspector that does that?  
That's compatible with 3.5?

Thanks in advance for your answers.
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Bob Sneidar | 1 May 2009 01:53

Re: Dumb Newbie Questions -- 1 of N

I suppose I am tromping on old ground, but here goes. I remember being  
in Hypercard and running into the slowness that started creeping in  
with anything over 2000 cards. Back then the moniker was a card  
equaled a record in a "database". People who then tried to use  
Hypercard as a "Database" were severely disappointed to learn of this  
limitation (not to mention miffed at the stack corruption that  
eventually ensued).

At the time there were a couple or three attempts to connect Hypercard  
to some other kind of database like dBase. They had mixed reviews.  
They never really worked out a stable and easy to use interface. The  
upshot was that Hypercard was not a good development environment for  
Database Applications of any great size.

Fast forward to the present: Some genius figures out how to connect a  
Hypercard like datafile to a SQL database! Genius! A little clunky at  
first, but it's been getting better all the time. They call it  
"Runtime Revolution". Catchy name. But now the moniker is "A card  
equals a form" into which you can populate the fields with data from  
your SQL (or whatever) database.

Clearly the strengths of Hypercard are now weaknesses in Revolution,  
and the weaknesses of Hypercard are now passed over in Revolution. All  
that to say this: Any attempt to take an old Hypercard stack which was  
a database and convert it to Revolution is going to be fraught with  
difficulty. It's the wrong decade. It's the wrong century for crying  
out loud! It's the wrong way to think about the problem.

If I were you I would export the data from Hypercard (assuming you  
have an old clunker that can run Hypercard), export all your
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DunbarX | 1 May 2009 02:32
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Re: property inspector poll


This is what my gadget does.

Craig Newman

In a message dated 4/30/09 7:45:49 PM, josh@... writes:

> s there a currently available property inspector that does that? 
> That's compatible with 3.5?
> 
> Thanks in advance for your answers.
> 

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Judy Perry | 1 May 2009 02:33

Re: Dumb Newbie Questions -- 1 of N

Hi Scott,

Thanks for the reply!

<snip>
> I think this is one of those instructional difficulties 
> that is hard to nail down outside of generalities and theory.   Using custom 
> props to store data is usually not one of the concepts I would expect most 
> folks new to Revolution to pick up early on.  Learning to store data in 
> fields on cards is probably a simpler, more concrete and logical-next-step 
> method that allows seemingly good results with the least effort.

Right, and I'm probably right in there at the 9 year old level ;-)

I'm trying to figure out what new (to me) things are worth spending time 
on this summer (worth = useful for me) and which are not.  I honestly do 
not see myself doing 32,000 card stacks anytime soon as my little things 
are just educational aids for my kids, so I thought I'd pick custom 
properties since everyone seems to be of the opinion that they are the 
bee's knees. Howevder, I need to see an example along the lines of the 
sorts of things I'd be likely to use them for as well as an extremely 
detailed set of instructions with explanations of why as well as how.

Thank you again for your reply,

Judy
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Josh Mellicker | 1 May 2009 02:49
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Re: property inspector poll

Hi Craig,

Where would I find more info on your gadget?

Thanks

On Apr 30, 2009, at 5:32 PM, DunbarX@... wrote:

>
> This is what my gadget does.
>
> Craig Newman
>
> In a message dated 4/30/09 7:45:49 PM, josh@... writes:
>
>
>> s there a currently available property inspector that does that?
>> That's compatible with 3.5?
>>
>> Thanks in advance for your answers.
>>
>
>
>
>
> **************
> Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the
> web. Get the Radio Toolbar!
> (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolradio/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000003 
> )
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J. Landman Gay | 1 May 2009 03:41
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Re: Dumb Newbie Questions -- 1 of N

Judy Perry wrote:

> I'm trying to figure out what new (to me) things are worth spending time 
> on this summer (worth = useful for me) and which are not.  I honestly do 
> not see myself doing 32,000 card stacks anytime soon as my little things 
> are just educational aids for my kids, so I thought I'd pick custom 
> properties since everyone seems to be of the opinion that they are the 
> bee's knees. Howevder, I need to see an example along the lines of the 
> sorts of things I'd be likely to use them for as well as an extremely 
> detailed set of instructions with explanations of why as well as how.

They're the bee's knees when they're the best way to do something. ;)

So, suppose you wanted to make a little quiz stack for your kids. Maybe 
something to help with their homework. You have multiple choice buttons 
on each card. Each card has a question or a puzzle or something on it, 
and they choose the right answer by clicking the correct button.

There's a different correct answer per card. Where do you store the answer?

There are lots of ways to do it. A hidden field could store the answer, 
but then you've got an extra object to work around. Sometimes that 
doesn't matter, sometimes it does. Or you could label each button with a 
special name when it's the right answer -- but that would mean you 
couldn't share the buttons in a background, you'd need a complete new 
set on each card, because they'd need different labels on each card. 
That's a lot of extra buttons for nothing. You could have a list of 
right answers in a text file and read those in, but that's way overkill, 
and then you have a separate file to keep track of and a bunch of 
scripting to do.
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Richard Gaskin | 1 May 2009 05:26
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Re: Dumb Newbie Questions -- 1 of N

Scott Morrow wrote:

 > Why do I need another way? Until my prior knowledge included
 > experience with and understanding of particular difficulties
 > (the NEED to separate data from layout) I wasn't REALLY ready
 > to learn about it other than in an abstraction or as an exercise.

I think you've hit on a key point there.

For a lot of projects, there's no harm in storing data in fields. 
There, I said it.  Some may call it blasphemy, but I think it's true 
just the same.

If what you need can fit in a stack gracefully in Rev, go for it.

And if you need something more you have many options, from custom 
properties in stack files to text files to several different RDBMS engines.

While there are some limitations with Rev, there's also much freedom.

There are all sorts of so-called "best practices", and while they might 
be important for professional work they needn't encumber someone who 
just needs to whip up some gadget for their own use.

Use whatever feels natural, and if you hit a wall there are many options 
for getting over it.

 > (No, I'm not referring to Mr. Gaskin as an abstraction.)

I've been called worse. :)
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Jim Bufalini | 1 May 2009 06:55
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Lanching an image (Was: RE: Avoiding multiple instances of a running Rev app)

This was posted already, but maybe missed because it was under an already
answered thread subject. So, I changed the subject. ;-) This is obviously a
Windows question but should have a Mac equivalent.

Hi All,

Paul wrote:

> ... what I do is copy pv.exe
> into a
> custom property, then extract it into the default directory, check for
> multiple
> processes with the name of my process then tidy up and close down.

This reminds me of a question. ;-) Anyone know of a way to launch or shell
to an image of an exe in a custom property similar to the way you can "go"
to an image of a stack in a custom property without putting it to disk
first?

Aloha from Hawaii,

Jim Bufalini

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