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Graeme Geldenhuys | 1 Oct 01:12
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Re: debugger feature request created

2009/10/1 Martin <lazarus <at> mfriebe.de>:
> I still thin you exaggerate "Debugging from inside the IDE is near
> impossible".  => it is not very comfortable though.

Well, then you clearly know which loops to jump through in Lazarus.
Just about everything I try and debug in Lazarus doesn't work - and I
try and use Lazarus debugging like I used Delphi or Kylix debugging.

Regards,
  - Graeme -

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Graeme Geldenhuys | 1 Oct 01:16
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Re: debugger feature request created

> working debugger will benefit everybody! I really think a working &
> integrated debugger must be one of the high priorities for the IDE -
> more that say new IDE eye-candy.  :-)

Like ABorka told me in a private email. Once Embarcadero brings out
64bit support and cross-platform compiler (latter is what they are
working on now), then Lazarus will loose a large appeal from Delphi
developers. At the moment FPC and Lazarus offers features Delphi
doesn't have, but not the critical features which will allow them to
switch to Lazarus permanently.

Regards,
  - Graeme -

_______________________________________________
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http://opensoft.homeip.net/fpgui/

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Martin | 1 Oct 01:24
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Re: debugger feature request created

Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:
> 2009/10/1 Martin <lazarus <at> mfriebe.de>:
>   
>> I still thin you exaggerate "Debugging from inside the IDE is near
>> impossible".  => it is not very comfortable though.
>>     
>
> Well, then you clearly know which loops to jump through in Lazarus.
> Just about everything I try and debug in Lazarus doesn't work - and I
> try and use Lazarus debugging like I used Delphi or Kylix debugging.
>   
Well then help extending the wiki page with the loops....

Like adding tips, how to use (and where not to use) value inspection via 
hint. (personally I never used this, so I couldn't run into this issue. 
I dislike having to re-locacte the mouse after every single-step, rather 
using the watches window.
But a matter of taste, so yes for you it is less comfortable.

Viewing record structures with a hint is still possible, just hover over 
the actual name of the variable (the record, not the field), and you see 
*all* values. Usability depends on the size of the record...

Arrays are still an issue. I admit this. With fpc trunc you can get 
along, if and only if (to many if) you have declared a named type. And 
if (!) you add the extra pointer dereference.

So are nested procedures, and local variables in the outer scope. Only 
way is to set the current stackframe in the stack window.
(Continue reading)

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Mattias Gaertner | 1 Oct 01:25
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Re: package with LazIDEIntf and propedits probleme

On Wed, 30 Sep 2009 17:56:17 +0200
wile64 <wile64 <at> gmail.com> wrote:

> Don't work, don't work, don't work !!!
> 
> After full test, I am desperate to make it work :(
> I have some another message like "objectinspector.pp(41,18) Fatal:
> Can't find unit ObjectInspector used by EnvironmentOpts"
> 
> If someone can test with the package manager, create a package and
> then add a new component (no matter the ancestor) and add "uses
> LazIDEIntf, propedits;" into unit
> *And try to install package.*

Create new package.
Save it.
Add new comonent.
Add new requirement "IDEIntf".
Add uses LazIDEIntf, propedits.
Install package.
Works here.

Mattias

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Martin | 1 Oct 01:39
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Re: debugger feature request created

Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:
>> working debugger will benefit everybody! I really think a working &
>> integrated debugger must be one of the high priorities for the IDE -
>> more that say new IDE eye-candy.  :-)
>>     
>
> Like ABorka told me in a private email. Once Embarcadero brings out
> 64bit support and cross-platform compiler (latter is what they are
> working on now), then Lazarus will loose a large appeal from Delphi
> developers. At the moment FPC and Lazarus offers features Delphi
> doesn't have, but not the critical features which will allow them to
> switch to Lazarus permanently.
>
>   
Well this is because no one is getting paid for working on Lazarus. So 
manpower is an issue.

On the other hand it means no one depends on people using it. If they 
want to use it, that's great. If they don't no problem at all (because 
no one is losing there job/salary/means-of living).

Anyway, lots of companies just go for delphi, because there still is an 
implicit mistrust towards open source. They feel more secure if they 
have bought a product, and have the feeling they got some warranties 
towards it's usability or availability or whatever.

Anyway no one has denied that features are missing. As for debugging 
there is a dis-consent about the wording or extend that those missing 
feature have (at least between me and you (Graeme).  But  not about the 
fact that it would be nice (essential for some) to have.
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waldo kitty | 1 Oct 06:23
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Re: Error while debugging: "No symbol in current context"

ABorka wrote:
> Hi Graeme,
> 
> The debugger is not usable as it does not have been in the focus to be 
> developed.
> 
> Object property values cannot be seen either (dwarf or something 
> external program used does not support properties).
> There were questions about the debugger functions in the past 2 years, 
> same as yours both on the Lazarus forums and the mailing lists.
> If I remember correctly the answer was something like it is not priority 
> until after 1.0 .
> IMO it is one of the most important aspects of RAD development to have a 
> fully working IDE debugger. Currently in Lazarus the debugger is not 
> usable for serious development because some of the most basic 
> requirements are missing. Not to mention a CPU window, etc.
> It seems a new debugger should be developed that does not depend on non 
> compatible external programs, but there were no resources to do it in 
> the past years.
> 
> AB
> 
> Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I just can't seem to debug anything inside the Lazarus IDE. Maybe my
>> computer just doesn't like me or something. :-(
>>
>> See attached screenshot. "Slots" is a local variable which is a
>> "record" structure.  I can't seem to get any debug information about
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waldo kitty | 1 Oct 06:25
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Re: debugger feature request created

Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:
> project. My knowledge of compiler or debugger internals are zero, so
> don't know how much I can contribute. But if possible, I will try. A
> working debugger will benefit everybody! I really think a working &
> integrated debugger must be one of the high priorities for the IDE -
> more that say new IDE eye-candy.  :-)

my comments, thoughts and desires 1000000000000000000000000000% :)

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waldo kitty | 1 Oct 06:36
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Re: debugger feature request created

Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:
> 2009/10/1 Martin <lazarus <at> mfriebe.de>:
>> I still thin you exaggerate "Debugging from inside the IDE is near
>> impossible".  => it is not very comfortable though.
> 
> Well, then you clearly know which loops to jump through in Lazarus.
> Just about everything I try and debug in Lazarus doesn't work - and I
> try and use Lazarus debugging like I used Delphi or Kylix debugging.

same for me and my base it TP6 and/or TP&/BP7 :? :(

not only me but many others "old school" TP/BP 6/7 coders who are wanting and, 
in this day in age, needing to convert to a mode modern coding kit ;)

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waldo kitty | 1 Oct 06:50
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Re: debugger feature request created

Martin wrote:
> Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:
>> 2009/10/1 Martin <lazarus <at> mfriebe.de>:
>>  
>>> I still thin you exaggerate "Debugging from inside the IDE is near
>>> impossible".  => it is not very comfortable though.
>>>     
>>
>> Well, then you clearly know which loops to jump through in Lazarus.
>> Just about everything I try and debug in Lazarus doesn't work - and I
>> try and use Lazarus debugging like I used Delphi or Kylix debugging.
>>   
> Well then help extending the wiki page with the loops....
> 
> Like adding tips, how to use (and where not to use) value inspection via 
> hint. (personally I never used this, so I couldn't run into this issue. 
> I dislike having to re-locacte the mouse after every single-step, rather 
> using the watches window.
> But a matter of taste, so yes for you it is less comfortable.
> 
> Viewing record structures with a hint is still possible, just hover over 
> the actual name of the variable (the record, not the field), and you see 
> *all* values. Usability depends on the size of the record...
> 
> Arrays are still an issue. I admit this. With fpc trunc you can get 
> along, if and only if (to many if) you have declared a named type. And 
> if (!) you add the extra pointer dereference.
> 
> So are nested procedures, and local variables in the outer scope. Only 
> way is to set the current stackframe in the stack window.
(Continue reading)

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waldo kitty | 1 Oct 06:54
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Re: package with LazIDEIntf and propedits probleme

Mattias Gaertner wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Sep 2009 17:56:17 +0200
> wile64 <wile64 <at> gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Don't work, don't work, don't work !!!
>>
>> After full test, I am desperate to make it work :(
>> I have some another message like "objectinspector.pp(41,18) Fatal:
>> Can't find unit ObjectInspector used by EnvironmentOpts"
>>
>> If someone can test with the package manager, create a package and
>> then add a new component (no matter the ancestor) and add "uses
>> LazIDEIntf, propedits;" into unit
>> *And try to install package.*
> 
> Works here.

why can one not do the following (which is ((would seem to be)) more intuitive)???

Create new package.
Add new comonent.
Add new requirement "IDEIntf".
Add uses LazIDEIntf, propedits.
Save it.
Install package.

in other words, why must saving something be the second step before adding or 
completing the basic steps??

i think i have run into similar while trying to convert delphi stuffs... one
(Continue reading)

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Gmane